Who in the Bat-universe is smarter than Batman?

[The Joker]

 

[RobC]

Apologizing for that? Here, at the Hype?

Lol, you're right, I should just have made a pro-Nolan comment, that'd make me more welcome at the Hype!

But I don't agree with the other posts, Superman is way more intelligent than Batman, just by sheer genetics. Plenty of others are as well, R'as for a start, and probably The Riddler.

It all comes down to certain areas. Batman is good at criminology and detective work, Riddler is better at conundrums, Two-Face is better at the legal system, and Joker is better at being insane.

 

[Buttman]

I choose to ignore this. No matter what hack writer tries to tell me, there's no way The Penguin is smarter than Batman.

 

[Nepenthes]

Actually, the story was set before Penguin began running a nightclub.

Of course it was. It would be kind of stupid to say he's "smarter than Batman" when all he's doing is running a nightclub. With Batmans permission.

I don't know why you are so obsessed to read a Batman who is better than everyone else in all fields. That is so boring - and "unrealistic", if you are one of those "realism" guys!

When I mentioned Oracle, Ray Palmer, Zattana etc I didn't mean that Bruce was better than them in their respective feilds. He's not. But he is an allrounder and he can outsmart these guys in other areas leading to their defeat. The only other CONSISTENT characters with a similair range of multidisciplinary expertise are Ra's Al Ghul and Lex Luthor. Other 'smart' characters come and go, they get their limelight for a moment then they're relegated to 2nd tier character limbo once again. However Ra's and Luthor will always represent the big league of genius vilains.

 

[RobC]

^ I agree, R'as has constantly been more then a match both physically and mentally for Batman and whilst Luthor and Batman rarely cross paths when they do it's always interesting to say the least.

I still think Supes can outsmart him on his day.

 

[Simon Phoenix]

What the hell is going on with Robin's hair?
looks like the worst fauxhawk ever

 

[ArkhamAsylum]

how about Hal Jordon? ha! no..i jest i jest...

 

[Chiroptera]

The better question for this thread would be "Who is next in line in intelligence after Batman? The answer to that is either the Riddler or Ra's.

 

[RobC]

If we're thinking who's next in line, then R'as without a doubt.

But I think R'as is more then an equal match for Batman. It was R'as who discovered how Hush was getting into Batman's head, he kidnapped Dick Grayson and managed to keep Jason Todd's re-birth secret.

 

[Riven]

I think Batman probably has the highest IQ of his immediate circle. But there are others who are better/smarter in specific areas. Batman definitely doesn't know everything, but when it comes to deductive reasoning, tactical ability and a very broad factual knowledge, he has very few peers. Especially the combination of all these faculties makes him near-genius level.


I think Bruce even excels in a lot of areas wherein others claim to be specialists... Arguably he's a better psychologist than Hugo Strange or Jonathan Crane, for instance.


The Riddler may have greater logical faculties than Bruce, but he lacks smarts in so many other fields (constantly allowing his own behaviour to trump him, a very narrow view of the world), that I'd hardly call him smarter than Batman. If anything, Batman's intelligence is highly practical, while Riddler's is almost purely theoretical. And theory only gets you so far...


It's been suggested that the Joker is a genius, but seeing how his brain is wired so utterly different from anyone elses, I think he shouldn't be compared to others.


I wouldn't say Ra's Al Ghul is smarter than Bruce per se, but I think his unique perspective on things and centuries of experience have given him greater insight. He's more philosophical, able to make further abstraction of concepts than Bruce is.


Lex Luthor might indeed be a lot smarter than Bruce. He's as much (if not more) of a tactical mastermind, he's very well-read and educated, on top of his immense scientific know-how. He's the only one I can think of that really equals or surpasses Bruce in more than just a few fields.


Interesting points made about Superman though... I've never really thought about how his brain works. I doubt the effects of our sun on his Kryptonian constitution actually make him smarter (or at least able to be smarter) than ordinary humans... Sure, he can super-speed read, but does he process all the data like we do? Does he remember it? Does he understand it all?

He can read through all the major philosophical works of human civilisation, but does that mean he can grasp it all? Basically anyone can read a book, but that doesn't mean they understand it. Superman just reads faster. If he reads this loooooong list of the decimals of Pi, can he commit them all to memory?

On the other hand, in "Superman: the Movie", I never really got how exactly he "learned" all that info from "all the known galaxies" through the talkie-crystals on the flight from Krypton... t:

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

Interesting points made about Superman though... I've never really thought about how his brain works. I doubt the effects of our sun on his Kryptonian constitution actually make him smarter (or at least able to be smarter) than ordinary humans... Sure, he can super-speed read, but does he process all the data like we do? Does he remember it? Does he understand it all?

He can read through all the major philosophical works of human civilisation, but does that mean he can grasp it all? Basically anyone can read a book, but that doesn't mean they understand it. Superman just reads faster. If he reads this loooooong list of the decimals of Pi, can he commit them all to memory?

Have you ever read a Superman comic? When you watch the tv shows, okay, this might be the view of Superman you get. Until Byrne's Marvelman 1986 Superman outsmarted all.

 

[RobC]

Yeah, Superman takes in all the info, that's part of the reason he speed reads.

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

And who can eat more cake in two minutes, Batman or Superman ?

 

[RobC]

Superman. Easily.

Who can eat more hot-dogs?

 

[Mladen]

how are we judging smart here?
book smarts? general knowledge? IQ? Mathematics? Artistic Intelligence? Tactics? Logical deduction? Social intelligence?

No person can be perfect at all of these simultaneously.

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

how are we judging smart here?
book smarts? general knowledge? IQ? Mathematics? Artistic Intelligence? Tactics? Logical deduction? Social intelligence?

No person can be perfect at all of these simultaneously.

Superman can, of course

 

[November Rain]

I find it hard to believe anyone would even question edward's intellect.

He 'allows' himself to get caught...

do you really think batman would ever have a chance in hell of catching him if he didn't lay down those riddles?

 

[CFE]

I believe the award for most intelligent being in the DCU belongs to Metron.

In terms of the 'Batman' mythology, and keeping those parameters in mind...

1: Ras' Al Ghul
2: Batman
3: Oracle
4: Bane
5: Riddler

------

Also, I think the page from 'Penguin Triumphant' nailed it. Cobblepot is absurdly underestimated, both from characters in the books as well as fans.

It also sheds light on the undeniable fact that if not for their fixations, vendettas and overall insanity getting in the way, A lot of Batman's rogues have the potential to be lethal on an intellectual level.

Crane was at heart a Psychiatrist
Dent was a DA
Isley was a Botanist
Tetch was a technological wizard

Tell me you can't be intelligent as hell to be in these fields. Luckily enough for Batman, their minds were so hideously warped that THAT potential can't be tapped on the level that it could be.

Plus there's the Joker, who's a mastermind BECAUSE of his insanity, but I won't go into that at this point.

----

CFE

 

[Riven]

I find it hard to believe anyone would even question edward's intellect.

He 'allows' himself to get caught...

do you really think batman would ever have a chance in hell of catching him if he didn't lay down those riddles?

Yes.

 

[November Rain]

it's been stated on numerous occassions that batman has had absolutley no leads into riddler related criems if not for a puzzle that had been layed down.

Beating someone doesn;t necessarily make one smarter than they are. Parker beats doctor octopus and osborn on numerous occassions but i wouldn't say he's smarter than them.

 

[RobC]

Exactly, without Riddler giving Batman clues he wouldn't know what crimes were going to take place. However because of this, Batman never has to do any detective work on Riddler to find out his plans like he does with other villians.

 

[Riven]

Exactly, without Riddler giving Batman clues he wouldn't know what crimes were going to take place. However because of this, Batman never has to do any detective work on Riddler to find out his plans like he does with other villians.

But if Batman didn't have the clues, he would do the detective work, find him out and catch him. I think.

I'm definitely not downplaying Nigma's intelligence, but I don't think that without the riddles he'd be this unstoppable, undetectable, invisible criminal genius.

 

[RobC]

That's what I mean, we never see Batman truly pitted against Riddler in a battle of smarts, because Riddler gives Batman a clue. I don't think he'd be unstopable either, but he'd definitely be a more worthy opponent.

 

[Sparta*]

I don't really think many people in Batman's universe are smarter then him...especially Clark. Clark always relies on Bruce for information.

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

I don't really think many people in Batman's universe are smarter then him...especially Clark. Clark always relies on Bruce for information.

those days are long gone. We finally have our SUPERman back who laughs secretly about Batman and humanity