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Who should be the villain in a MCU Fantastic Four Film?

If I had anything to say about it, the Frightful Four and Wizard would be crossed off the list as potential villains.

Reed is ten times smarter than Wizard and their powers are terrible. Where’s the challenge?

And besides, the Frightful Four’s plots typically revolve around killing the FF - which is a terrible thing for a super-hero story.

Superheroes should be protecting innocent people, not themselves.

There’s nothing heroic about trying to not die.

The problem with Wizard is he is such a stock villain, he isn't menacing, creepy, noble, sympathetic or compelling. He is some jerk with a nonsense grudge against Reed Richards that has never developed into anything interesting. He would probably more interesting if he got over his grudge and focused on something else. Trapster also should have just sold his paste rather than use it for crime. The Frightful Four might be better as goons working for a better villain.

The Mad Thinker is more interesting because he has a better gimmick and occasionally is written as a sympathetic villain, though too often he is written as a generic mad scientist and the latest direction the comics took with him was bizzare.
 
I think Mad Thinker has some definite potential, bit I wouldn’t hold too close to the comics - and since he’s not an iconic villain, I don’t think many people would mind.

I’d make him something of an evil version of Batman in that he’s a planner. Batman’s thing is with enough “prep-time” he can take on anybody.

I wouldn’t do Mad Thinker’s hokey timing everything to the second, but I’d have him plan and predict and consider contingencies, so that as Reed does his thing, the audience realizes he’s doing exactly what MT thought he would and he’s entrenched in a trap.

One inherent problem with Reed is he’s the smartest man in the universe, so it seems that nobody can match him.

But there are different types of intelligence, and I’d make it clear that MT has an ability specifically to scheme and plot in a way that’s beyond Reed.
 
The problem with Wizard is he is such a stock villain, he isn't menacing, creepy, noble, sympathetic or compelling. He is some jerk with a nonsense grudge against Reed Richards that has never developed into anything interesting. He would probably more interesting if he got over his grudge and focused on something else. Trapster also should have just sold his paste rather than use it for crime. The Frightful Four might be better as goons working for a better villain.

The Mad Thinker is more interesting because he has a better gimmick and occasionally is written as a sympathetic villain, though too often he is written as a generic mad scientist and the latest direction the comics took with him was bizzare.
Like I said in my OP, I definitely think that if we don't get a proper MCU take on Norman/OsCorp, then Wizard would fit nicely into the role of the new scientist trying trying to take Stark's place in the global tech market. It would set up a nice conflict between him and Reed of "Capitalist Science" vs. "Science For Science's Sake." Say that Wizard is Edison and Reed is Tesla.
 
For me, villains like Wizard, Mad Thinker, Red Ghost etc. would be a waste on film. I want the MCU FF films to encompass the exploration aspect of the team, something that the Fox attempts failed to do. So I don't want them to use most of their earth based villains (besides those that come with unique locales like Doom, Mole Man, Namor). Most of them aren't very interesting or challenging to the FF anyway besides maybe to Reed on occasion.

Also, we'll get maybe a trilogy if successful and I wouldn't want any of the installments wasted on one of these characters. Unless they're used as a henchman to Doom or something.
 
For me, villains like Wizard, Mad Thinker, Red Ghost etc. would be a waste on film. I want the MCU FF films to encompass the exploration aspect of the team, something that the Fox attempts failed to do. So I don't want them to use most of their earth based villains (besides those that come with unique locales like Doom, Mole Man, Namor).
I agree with this for the most part, although I think some iteration of the Frightful Four could be interesting. A team vs. team sort of thing. But I don't want to see them early on. Could have Medusa in it, as a way of beginning to repair the mess that was the Inhumans TV show.

Also, someone somewhere is going to have to do Galactus right. But they're probably not going to touch that for now, too many bad memories. I bet they'd like to introduce the Silver Surfer though. An original Defenders movie would be cool.
 
I agree with this for the most part, although I think some iteration of the Frightful Four could be interesting. A team vs. team sort of thing. But I don't want to see them early on. Could have Medusa in it, as a way of beginning to repair the mess that was the Inhumans TV show.

Also, someone somewhere is going to have to do Galactus right. But they're probably not going to touch that for now, too many bad memories. I bet they'd like to introduce the Silver Surfer though. An original Defenders movie would be cool.

The Frightful Four are a bit too low stakes imo for the team. I can see them being the lackey's of a bigger villain or beaten early on in the film before the real villain. They are honestly not interesting enough to be the main antagonists of a film. Think of their stories. They all boil down to "let's try and kill the Fantastic Four for no reason and fail miserably at it". Not every F4 villain is good and they are among the weaker written ones.

I also think Medusa is better off introduced another way. The whole amnesia thing was fine in the 60s, but it's too cheesy and cliche now. The Inhumans can be brought in another way if they want to.
 
If I were Kevin Feige, I would type up a set of questions like this:

1. Who are the good guys?
2. Who are the bad guys?
3. Why does the audience like the good guys and want them to succeed?
4. Why does the audience dislike the bad guys and want them to fail?
5. How will innocent people be threatened?
6. What will the heroes be risking?
7. What makes the task difficult?


If writers, directors and producers can’t quickly and easily answer those questions, there’s a problem with the project.

i would also add
- is the story inspiring?
- what lesson/moral will people come away with to improve themselves and value their family more?
- are the good guys likeable, relatable?
- are the bad guys motives realistic or too tropey?
 
If your asking who should be the villain for the first film then I pick Moleman who I would reinvent as a misanthropic eco terrorist with talents in genetic engineering. Maybe position him as a science mentor or surrogate father figure that Reed always wanted for his dad but never got.

If your asking who’d I’d pick for a villain in a movie down the line then I would like to see The Maker played by Miles Teller. After the events of Fan4stic, Miles Teller’s Reed went rogue and became a serious multiversal threat. After NWH proved that Marvel isn’t above revisiting past iterations of their characters to service the story of their own versions. I wouldn’t want the Maker as the main baddie in the first film but I’d want to see him in either a Secret Wars film(which will just be repackaged as an Avengers film in the MCU) or the third movie in the FF trilogy.
 
I think Mad Thinker has some definite potential, bit I wouldn’t hold too close to the comics - and since he’s not an iconic villain, I don’t think many people would mind.

I’d make him something of an evil version of Batman in that he’s a planner. Batman’s thing is with enough “prep-time” he can take on anybody.

I wouldn’t do Mad Thinker’s hokey timing everything to the second, but I’d have him plan and predict and consider contingencies, so that as Reed does his thing, the audience realizes he’s doing exactly what MT thought he would and he’s entrenched in a trap.

One inherent problem with Reed is he’s the smartest man in the universe, so it seems that nobody can match him.

But there are different types of intelligence, and I’d make it clear that MT has an ability specifically to scheme and plot in a way that’s beyond Reed.

i love this. it sounds like something out of Sherlock (with Benedict)
 
FF1 - Mole Man post credits scene is a hint of Doctor Doom in Latveria
FF2- Annihilus (+ maybe have Namor) post credits scene is Doctor Doom again but this time revealing his mask only.
FF3- Doom is the main villain - they defeat him, but he is not down and out. Can still play a big part in the MCU in the next phase. Can even have his own solo film if he gets a lot of audience approval. Post credits scene is Silver Surfer and the warning that Galactus is coming to earth.

Sets up Galactus' arc that can work its way into all the other MCU movies.
 
Like I said in my OP, I definitely think that if we don't get a proper MCU take on Norman/OsCorp, then Wizard would fit nicely into the role of the new scientist trying trying to take Stark's place in the global tech market. It would set up a nice conflict between him and Reed of "Capitalist Science" vs. "Science For Science's Sake." Say that Wizard is Edison and Reed is Tesla.

This could work ( and would definitely be preferable to Luther-Wannabe Osborne ), but it would have the effect that the Wizard isn't actually a Fantastic Four villain. He's a villain for *other* characters. He's a guy who is a terrible threat for someone like Spider-man or Falcon-Cap or the typical X-Men roster, but if he shows up in the FF movie its as a short easily defeated cold open before the real plot begins. Which is not something Marvel Studios has really done yet.

Because, yes, the Wizard doesn't really work as a main villain for the FF. He's Doom Lite, inferior in every way and also without any of the interesting character or theme elements. This is useful enough in the comics, where sometimes you want a one issue menace, but for a movie you need someone more substantial. This doesn't mean "power", so much as style and character and theme, the things that make them stand out as "This story could only be done with this villain, and I want to see this story".
 
I agree with this for the most part, although I think some iteration of the Frightful Four could be interesting. A team vs. team sort of thing. But I don't want to see them early on. Could have Medusa in it, as a way of beginning to repair the mess that was the Inhumans TV show.

Also, someone somewhere is going to have to do Galactus right. But they're probably not going to touch that for now, too many bad memories. I bet they'd like to introduce the Silver Surfer though. An original Defenders movie would be cool.

IMO, if you want to do the "team vs team" angle? You'd be better off using the U-Foes, or even the Red Ghost and his Super-Apes. The Frightful Four are. . . not the most impressive team, both in the sense of "being a meaningful threat", but also in terms of any kind of thematics. Its basically "The Wizard recruits whatever second rate near-street level supervillains he can". Whereas the U-Foes, you can play to the "Deliberately trying to duplicate the FF's power origin", setting up Vector as a completely ruthless dark mirror to Reed. Whereas the Red Ghost, you can bring in a twisted, more militaristic version of exploring the unknown. . . and also, time displaced Soviet apes.
 
Whereas the Red Ghost, you can bring in a twisted, more militaristic version of exploring the unknown. . . and also, time displaced Soviet apes.
Speaking of the Red Ghost, did you notice how in the Avengers movies they never really defined Vision's powers? The closest they came was when he intangibly put his arms through an Ultron-bot and tore it apart, and the Falcon said "Uhh.. what?". I still can't understand that, the Vision has one of the more interesting and unique power sets IMO, and yet they never stopped once to explain them. Maybe they did in Wanda-Vision, I haven't watched that yet.

I'd be fine with the Frightful Four or the Red Ghost, but yeah they're not at the top of the list. Maybe they could serve as a quick "cameo" appearance kind of like Rhino in Amazing Spider-Man, before they get to the real villian of the film. For some reason I think Red Ghost and his Super Apes would fit in very well with the MCU.
 
Speaking of the Red Ghost, did you notice how in the Avengers movies they never really defined Vision's powers? The closest they came was when he intangibly put his arms through an Ultron-bot and tore it apart, and the Falcon said "Uhh.. what?". I still can't understand that, the Vision has one of the more interesting and unique power sets IMO, and yet they never stopped once to explain them. Maybe they did in Wanda-Vision, I haven't watched that yet.

I'd be fine with the Frightful Four or the Red Ghost, but yeah they're not at the top of the list. Maybe they could serve as a quick "cameo" appearance kind of like Rhino in Amazing Spider-Man, before they get to the real villian of the film. For some reason I think Red Ghost and his Super Apes would fit in very well with the MCU.

Red Ghost is such a Cold War relic though, I don't think he has a very interesting personality and just seems outdated after 1991. He needs a more modern motive and a more fleshed out personality.
 
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FF1 - Mole Man post credits scene is a hint of Doctor Doom in Latveria
FF2- Annihilus (+ maybe have Namor) post credits scene is Doctor Doom again but this time revealing his mask only.
FF3- Doom is the main villain - they defeat him, but he is not down and out. Can still play a big part in the MCU in the next phase. Can even have his own solo film if he gets a lot of audience approval. Post credits scene is Silver Surfer and the warning that Galactus is coming to earth.

Sets up Galactus' arc that can work its way into all the other MCU movies.

I love this idea.
 
Red Ghost is such a Cold War relic though, I don't think he has a very interesting personality and just seems outdated after 1991. He needs a more modern motive and a more fleshed out personality.

i get what y'all are saying about these lesser known characters- but trust me - you give them a cameo or an episode in one of the disney+ shows they have the potential to become A-listers. look at the guardians of the galaxy. they were D-tier heroes and because of the movies they are one of the most well known in all comic book cinema
 
I love this idea.

thanks. what i meant when i said hint of Doom for the post credits of FF1-
there is a news clip leaking that Sokovia has been annexed by nearby Latveria - the UN cite various human rights and treaty violations.
The head of state of Latveria has not granted the media an interview. Their only representative appears to be a repurposed Ultron minion with superior tech - called DB-616 models
 
i get what y'all are saying about these lesser known characters- but trust me - you give them a cameo or an episode in one of the disney+ shows they have the potential to become A-listers. look at the guardians of the galaxy. they were D-tier heroes and because of the movies they are one of the most well known in all comic book cinema

It takes more than cameo to make these characters compelling, you have to put in work into them. Let's face it, half of the MCU villains are totally forgettable.

Really the majority of the Fantastic Four's rogues gallery besides Doom, Galactus and maybe Annihilus have needed a revamp for a long time, but the writers have never really bothered, just recycling the same old Silver Age stories with them, that just seem played out by 2022.

They gave Wizard a mental breakdown, but that story went nowhere and was resolved in a dumb way. The Cold War has been over for 30 years and Red Ghost is still a Cold War relic.

Give these characters more to do, tell us something new about them. If they are going to be on the Silver Screen as the main villain, they need to be fleshed out. Is Red Ghost just a scum bag or a well intentioned extremist or what?
 
Red Ghost is such a Cold War relic though, I don't think he has a very interesting personality and just seems outdated after 1991.
I think the reason I could see him in the MCU is that he reminds me of some of the villains in the Captain America movies. Several of those were relics of old time wars and politics, like Zemo and Zola.
 
If you look around the internet enough, you'll see some people suggesting that Galactus should be the villain in an Avengers movie, rather than doing it with the FF again. I would honestly be okay with this, but I would want it to be after the FF has been introduced, so that they could play a significant part in the movie (like the way GotG were in the Avengers movies).

Would you like to see Galactus in an Avengers movie, or should they save him for the FF?
 
I think the reason I could see him in the MCU is that he reminds me of some of the villains in the Captain America movies. Several of those were relics of old time wars and politics, like Zemo and Zola.

I think since the Unite the Right Rally back in 2017, Nazis are making a come back, making them relevant again. MCU Zemo is also completely unconnected to Nazis or Hydra, his motives are personal and it would have been hard to make him sympathetic if he was a Nazi/Hydra villain.

Red Ghost is a dull character because he is a communist supervillain, is he a supervillain because he is a communist and he is a communist because he is a supervillain. What is his actual motivation, did he think communism would be beneficial for the majority of humanity or was he just a scum bag who wanted more power within the USSR for himself? Since the USSR is gone, if he is just a self-serving scum bag he could work for the current Russian government (though Marvel may not want their films banned Russia and may not want to do that) or have him more for the Russian mafia. If he still is a communist, maybe make him into a well-intentioned extremist and give his ideology more fleshing out.
 
Another interesting question, should Mole Man be a sympathetic villain or some creepy scummy Incel? To make him sympathetic, I think he would have to care his monsters and maybe be mad at some corporation dumping toxic waste underground. If he is just a creepy Incel, he should be mad pretty girls didn't go out with him, have a creepy obsession with Sue, treat his monsters as slaves and run his kingdom like a cult.
 
Another interesting question, should Mole Man be a sympathetic villain or some creepy scummy Incel? To make him sympathetic, I think he would have to care his monsters and maybe be mad at some corporation dumping toxic waste underground. If he is just a creepy Incel, he should be mad pretty girls didn't go out with him, have a creepy obsession with Sue, treat his monsters as slaves and run his kingdom like a cult.

I would write him as a serial killer, because that’s what he is. He’s a sociopath who has no empathy and is therefore able to remorselessly kill millions.

And like with real serial killers, there are things in his past that have made him that way, but he’s not sympathetic because no sad backstory can justify the willingness to indiscriminately kill.

… at least that’s the way I’d do it.
 
If you look around the internet enough, you'll see some people suggesting that Galactus should be the villain in an Avengers movie, rather than doing it with the FF again. I would honestly be okay with this, but I would want it to be after the FF has been introduced, so that they could play a significant part in the movie (like the way GotG were in the Avengers movies).

Would you like to see Galactus in an Avengers movie, or should they save him for the FF?

No keep him in Fantastic Four or a Marvel Universe movie with the FF as the leads. The FF are equals to the Avengers and saving "big threats" for the Avengers places the FF as below them. That's why I think the big crossover films should no longer be under the Avenger name with the FF and X-Men coming along.

Also, giving one of the FF's most famous villains to the Avengers doesn't sit right with me. Let's be honest, the Fantastic Four brand needs revitalization and giving away their best villains or having them play second-fiddle doesn't do that.
 
Another interesting question, should Mole Man be a sympathetic villain or some creepy scummy Incel? To make him sympathetic, I think he would have to care his monsters and maybe be mad at some corporation dumping toxic waste underground. If he is just a creepy Incel, he should be mad pretty girls didn't go out with him, have a creepy obsession with Sue, treat his monsters as slaves and run his kingdom like a cult.

i dont envision any scenario where he is a creepy incel lol. Most likely the former. So a mix of a psychopath as Willie suggested but with sympathetic undertones. Like the movie Willard.
 

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