Justice League Who Should Be The Villain?

[Llama_Shepherd]

I literally agreed that they made money. But that doesn't matter to me when they are **** movies. If the DC movies are made back to back and make **** ton of movies but have the same quality as POTC sequels, I will also say it doesn't work.

Works from the studio point of view. If the studios cared more about quality than success, Superman Returns would be getting a sequel over Man of Steel.

Well, I'm not going to argue the semantics of sequels. LOTR was 3 books turned into 3 movies. Makes sense. Those others were 1 book turned into multiple movies. Completely unnecessary. I didn't see Breaking Dawn, but Hobbit and Harry Potter were chalk full of unnecessary things.

Lord of the Rings is one novel, released in 3 films. But it was not 1 volumes = 1 film. For example, Return of the King (the film) was based on both The Two Towers and Return of the King. Same situation with the Potter/Twilight films, splitting them up allowed for a fuller adaptation.

These things aren't exclusive. Movies made back-to-back can still have coherency issues, casting problems, bloated budgets, and ****** movies as a result. And of course, LOTR is the shining example, its why so many followed in its footsteps, but I have seen nothing that says it is a MUST for franchise filmmaking, especially as an audience member who has been constantly let down by the quality of the work despite whatever box office results they have.

Coherency issues are less likely to arise, like in The Dark Knight Trilogy. As the films are written as a triptych. There's no NEED to do these films back to back, but there's no NEED to make them at all.

 

[SlamAdams]

Works from the studio point of view. If the studios cared more about quality than success, Superman Returns would be getting a sequel over Man of Steel.

I'm not arguing the studio's point of view. I'm arguing mine.

Lord of the Rings is one novel, released in 3 films. But it was not 1 volumes = 1 film. For example, Return of the King (the film) was based on both The Two Towers and Return of the King. Same situation with the Potter/Twilight films, splitting them up allowed for a fuller adaptation.

Splitting them up also allowed for bloated adapations. Which i found the last 2 Potter films and Hobbit movie (and only one has been released yet.

Coherency issues are less likely to arise, like in The Dark Knight Trilogy. As the films are written as a triptych.

Not necessarily

There's no NEED to do these films back to back, but there's no NEED to make them at all.

Well, no kidding, but the argument is based on the assumption that they are already planning to.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I'm not arguing the studio's point of view. I'm arguing mine.

Then you shouldn't have said they don't work, because they do. You should have said "I don't like diptychs/triptychs etc".

Splitting them up also allowed for bloated adapations. Which i found the last 2 Potter films and Hobbit movie (and only one has been released yet.

See above.

Not necessarily

Yes it is. One film is less likely to have issues than several.

Well, no kidding, but the argument is based on the assumption that they are already planning to.

I've already given you reasons why it would be beneficial. You then talked about necessity, there's never a necessity for films.

 

[SlamAdams]

Then you shouldn't have said they don't work, because they do. You should have said "I don't like diptychs/triptychs etc".

I think the way I said is just fine. The studios adhere to it. I pay to see it. I don't like. My opinion = "it doesn't work"

Yes it is. One film is less likely to have issues than several.

I agree. Just because you conceive as a whole doesn't mean 3 films suddenly become 1 film though. One at a time can still have the same effect.

I've already given you reasons why it would be beneficial. You then talked about necessity, there's never a necessity for films.

I wasn't talking about necessity. I was talking about exclusivity. The benefits you mentioned are not exclusive nor guaranteed by the LOTR method. And as far as I can tell as an audience member, it has done more harm than good in movies that aren't LOTR

I didn't even use the word NEED, and even if I did you should be able to use context to know that I wasn't talking about a grand-scope "Does the world NEED another superhero movie?" type of way. That's just being ridiculous.

 

[The Guard]

If they're going to use Starro, then they should use Starro. Not the humanoid Starro that was reinvented, because that's kind of silly and defeats the purpose of Starro as a concept a bit.

They should just use Starro, and do something similar to Grant Morrison's World War III storyline, where it's an immense destructive force, psychologically as well as physically.

Darkseid. Starro. Vandal Savage. Despero. Mongul. The Injustice Society/Gang, etc...massive universal entropy...

It's hard to go wrong with the Justice League's villains.

 

[SlamAdams]

If they're going to use Starro, then they should use Starro. Not the humanoid Starro that was reinvted, because that's kind of silly and defeats the purpose of starro a bit.

They should just use Starro.

Darkseid. Starro. Vandal Savage. Despero. Mongul. The Injustice Society/Gang, etc...

It's hard to go wrong with the Justice League's villains.

I assumed that was just Starro attached someone.

Would Starro attached to Martian Manhunter (who is later freed and becomes an ally/team member) be too far out of bounds for people?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think the way I said is just fine. The studios adhere to it. I pay to see it. I don't like. My opinion = "it doesn't work"

Slapping "in my opinion" doesn't make what you say true. If it did, I could say The Avengers wasn't as successful as The Dark Knight Rises.

But that would be incorrect.

They do work, as evidenced by the masses of money they made.

I agree. Just because you conceive as a whole doesn't mean 3 films suddenly become 1 film though. One at a time can still have the same effect.

This just tells me why we aren't on the same wavelength. You don't understand how single production series are made.

I'll give you a hint: The words "single" and "production" are very important, even in the area of pre-producion.

I wasn't talking about necessity. I was talking about exclusivity. The benefits you mentioned are not exclusive nor guaranteed by the LOTR method. And as far as I can tell as an audience member, it has done more harm than good in movies that aren't LOTR

I didn't even use the word NEED, and even if I did you should be able to use context to know that I wasn't talking about a grand-scope "Does the world NEED another superhero movie?" type of way. That's just being ridiculous.

The word "necessitate" does not come from the word need, it comes from the word necesarry. I used the word need, you used the word must. Guess what? They're all imperatives.

PS The context was sequels and franchise building

Thanks for playing though, but this is far too off topic.

 

[SlamAdams]

Slapping "in my opinion" doesn't make what you say true.

Not my intention. Never argued the financial success of such movies, only the quality, which being subjective, has always been of my opinion

If it did, I could say The Avengers wasn't as successful as The Dark Knight Rises.

But that would be incorrect.

They do work, as evidenced by the masses of money they made.

I don't care about the money. I have agreed many MANY times that the examples have made boatloads of cash. I have only ever argued that the quality is disappointing.

This just tells me why we aren't on the same wavelength. You don't understand how single production series are made.

I'll give you a hint: The words "single" and "production" are very important, even in the area of pre-producion.

I understand how single production series are made. But if the final product is planned to be split into parts, you are still creating more than one movie from the beginning (rather than making one, waiting to see the result, and then starting the other). Plenty of room for problems there.

The word "necessitate" does not come from the word need, it comes from the word necesarry. I used the word need, you used the word must. Guess what? They're all imperatives.

PS The context was sequels and franchise building

Thanks for playing though, but this is far too off topic.

I guess I misspoke. It still all makes sense to me. I still don't see how your benefits for single production is exclusive to single production.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I was just gonna post a "cool story bro" gif. But shall we agree to disagree on the fact, that I don't think Justice League can afford to fail?

 

[SlamAdams]

I was just gonna post a "cool story bro" gif. But shall we agree to disagree on the fact, that I don't think Justice League can afford to fail?

yea, that seems pretty much a given. I'd just rather it tell a good story and fail financially, than shoot for mediocre and make billions of dollars.

 

[SlamAdams]

I think its funny that people are concerned with Darkseid and Thanos seeming too much alike when Darkseid has plenty in common with Loki in the first Avengers movies anyway. These are comic book archetypes that are inevitably going to clash. The best way to make the first Justice League movie stand out is having the team of red-shirts not be led by such an iconic rogue.

The White Martians fill a lot of criteria. For one, they can be shown as a horde of enemies that would give any ONE superhuman trouble rather than ONE individual powerful enough to give the whole Justice League trouble. Also it slips Martian Manhunter into the works since I doubt he would ever get a solo.

You could also substitute Atlanteans for White Martians and Aquaman for Martian Manhunter (as the do-gooder trying to warn of his people's plans)

I also think Martian Manhunter possessed by Starro would be an interesting way to integrate him into DC movies, the intention being to free him and he becomes an ally.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I want at least one League vs. White Martians film. Use them in 1st, 2nd or 3rd film. Anyway they can use them I would be fine with. But my ideal way would be an intro in a solo J'ONN J'ONNZ film. Though possessing similar powers and power levels to the Last Son Of Krypton, J'onn's film does not need to be a big epic actioner. I would follow the overall tone, but not copy the story, of NEW FRONTIER and it's portions concerning him. Title it MANHUNTER FROM MARS. Intro the WHITE MARTIANS into. Cover ground similar to SECRET INVASION only it's only J'onn up against the threat to the world. Maybe flash back through his timeline until you reach present day where J'onn must deal with the appearance of a new alien in the world. Superman.

 

[batlovescatDC]

Injustice League. I think that's the best way to do it. Have a great enemy for each hero band together, and that's why the heroes must band together.

Just having them meet up and say, "Hey, there's a big threat to the world that I can't stop on my own so let's form a crime fighting team!" doesn't work. The government getting them to work together would make mainstream audiences think they were just copying Avengers. And I honestly don't like the concept of Jonn telepathically alerting them and having them form together either. It was an okay concept for the beginning of the JL animated series, but I just don't think it would work well for a movie.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Injustice League only works once you've introduced all the villains in solo films. No to Injustice League in the first film.

 

[SlamAdams]

Injustice League only works once you've introduced all the villains in solo films. No to Injustice League in the first film.

I disagree. I think you could introduce a group of villains who could never get one up on their heroes so they team up pretty easily. I'm just not a fan of the idea, even in comic form.

 

[shauner111]

Injustice League. I think that's the best way to do it. Have a great enemy for each hero band together, and that's why the heroes must band together.

Just having them meet up and say, "Hey, there's a big threat to the world that I can't stop on my own so let's form a crime fighting team!" doesn't work. The government getting them to work together would make mainstream audiences think they were just copying Avengers. And I honestly don't like the concept of Jonn telepathically alerting them and having them form together either. It was an okay concept for the beginning of the JL animated series, but I just don't think it would work well for a movie.

The government should NOT get them together and neither should Martian Manhunter. If anybody gets them together it's Superman. But they need to form together on their own, whether the government, citizens, or anybody else for that matter want them to or not.

 

[shauner111]

Also, the villain team-up idea sounds cheesy. Especially since Marc Webb is probably doing some Sinister Six movie in the 3rd or 4th Amazing Spider-Man.

I just want to see Darkseid, Brainiac or somebody of that nature come into these films and be stopped by the 5, 6 or 7 members of the Justice League. Whether that's on Apokolips or Earth doesn't matter to me. Just spread it across many continents and have the government back off at some point letting the League take care of it completely.

 

[batlovescatDC]

No to Darkseid in the first JL film. And I really want Brainiac in Man of Steel 2, not Justice League.

 

[shauner111]

So who's the first villain then? It has to be something huge that gets 5 or 6 heroes together.

 

[NosfeRomas]

Starro could do that. He is a very solid first villain. And the horror element does add originality and non-avengers elements to the movie. Darkseid is a big card that probably should not be used in the first film but you are running out of time because if Joss Whedon puts Thanos out first, Darkseid will be considered a rip off by the GA and by ignorant fanboys.

 

[shauner111]

Well I know for a fact that Goyer will be writing Justice League as a one-off. As he (and Nolan) do with each of their films. They can be stand-alone. Im sure the first JL could be expanded into a sequel as with anything but im sure theyre going to go ALL out on the first one. Which is why they should use Darkseid and stop worrying about doing a second movie.

If the first one is so huge where WB pressures them into making another movie, they can find a way to scale it down or bring it to another planet or go into a whole other approach. I think the first JL should be made like it's the only one they may ever make. Don't hold back. Don't try to hype up another villain like Marvel did.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

Well I know for a fact that Goyer will be writing Justice League as a one-off. As he (and Nolan) do with each of their films. They can be stand-alone. Im sure the first JL could be expanded into a sequel as with anything but im sure theyre going to go ALL out on the first one. Which is why they should use Darkseid and stop worrying about doing a second movie.

If the first one is so huge where WB pressures them into making another movie, they can find a way to scale it down or bring it to another planet or go into a whole other approach. I think the first JL should be made like it's the only one they may ever make. Don't hold back. Don't try to hype up another villain like Marvel did.

I love Darkseid, and really do want to see him in live action. However, would he work without any build up? What about the whole Fourth World/New Gods stuff that goes along with Darkseid and Apokolips? Also, with Thanos being used for the Avengers sequel is Darkseid too close to that?

 

[shauner111]

Thanos wont be used until Avengers 3. 2018 the earliest.

But maybe they'll go with Brainiac. Cavill thinks Brainiac should only be introduced in the sequel and seems to think that he would be fine for JL, so maybe that could work.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

Thanos wont be used until Avengers 3. 2018 the earliest.

But maybe they'll go with Brainiac. Cavill thinks Brainiac should only be introduced in the sequel and seems to think that he would be fine for JL, so maybe that could work.

Brainiac is long overdue for a cinematic treatment. It's alittle hard to think of classic Superman villains who fit the bill in terms of getting live action interpretations. Mr. Mxyptlk? lol! Just kidding! Again, Darkseid would be great if there wasn't so much backstory that needed to be told with the war between New Genesis and Apokolips. The exchanging of the children treaty with Orion and Mr. Miracle. Hell that could make for an entirely separate movie in it's own right.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

If they're doing Darkseid Justice League will need to be about 3 hours long.