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whos to blame? fox, ratner , writers?

whos to blame

  • Fox

  • Ratner

  • Writers


Results are only viewable after voting.
A lot has changed and many people have calmed down after the many heated X3 debates over the course of its release. I still would like to see a restart but with a brand new cast and a new story to clean the slate.

I do think it would be wise to bring back Marsden for Cyclops. He fits the role, looks like him, and showed some great acting chops for the character during the climax of X2.

Fox has the rights for the X-Men for a long time and I don't see them letting anything X-Men related go for quite sometime, unless the newly formed Marvel studios manages to get blockbuster smashes with Iron Man, Hulk, and The Punisher this year.

You want a 'brand new cast' but you want Marsden back?

I don't think Marsden will come back - he's clearly moved on to other things and I cannot see him returning to Fox.

I also think using one of the same actors but otherwise a new cast is not a wise thing to do. If you're going to do a restart, do a restart.

Also, any rebooted franchise for X-Men will not really be wanting to use the same actors, it will want to start afresh.

And, although Marsden was reasonable in the role, Jackman's Wolverine easily looked more charismatic and more of an alpha-male. Unless you want some other character being more dominant than Cyclops again, then you need someone with more physical presence and authority than James.
 
Definetly can be some actor better than James as Scott, but James can be a great Cyclops if the script and director want it.
 
You want a 'brand new cast' but you want Marsden back?

I don't think Marsden will come back - he's clearly moved on to other things and I cannot see him returning to Fox.

I also think using one of the same actors but otherwise a new cast is not a wise thing to do. If you're going to do a restart, do a restart.

Also, any rebooted franchise for X-Men will not really be wanting to use the same actors, it will want to start afresh.

And, although Marsden was reasonable in the role, Jackman's Wolverine easily looked more charismatic and more of an alpha-male. Unless you want some other character being more dominant than Cyclops again, then you need someone with more physical presence and authority than James.

Well James is a lot younger than the majority of the cast from the X-Men. I think he could be a serious character if he were written in such a fashion. And when I say younger I mean he can actually be Cyclops much longer than Hugh could be Wolverine, Halle as Storm, or Famke as Jean. Obviously none of these actors/actresses are getting any younger, however, James has more of an advantage with his youth compared to Hugh, Halle, Famke, Ian(obviously), and Patrick(obviously).

As you say it's all about the "look", hence why Jackman's Wolverine was viewed more as the alpha male and had a dominance about him. I definitely feel Marsden could be a physical threat/presence if they beefed up his dialogue, his scenes, and so forth. There are plenty of pictures where he looked stern and dominant rather then being a pushover as Cyclops.

1-cyclops.jpg


CyclopsX3.jpg


These pictures are just an example of how determined he actually looks as the character. He just wasn't given a fair chance from the first film to show how important he is to the team.

I definitely don't want the character of Cyclops being ignored again. With the restart you can have the original team of Cyclops, Angel, Beast, Iceman, and Marvel Girl as your introductory characters to the story. But again the problem lies with who gets the right amount of screen time? With all of them being interesting characters someone's time to shine would have to suffer unfortunately.

However if done right it could be one of those instances where all characters get equal time to shine and showcas their talents.

If the restart does well, then you can introduce other characters and build them up as well. Obviously this won't happen anytime soon with Wolverine coming out and Magneto slowly coming to life as well.
 
Definetly can be some actor better than James as Scott, but James can be a great Cyclops if the script and director want it.

Exactly. :up: :up:

Sometimes all that's needed is for an actor to be given a fair shake and Marsden wasn't given one from the very beginning.
 
I don't see that happening. His career took off in such a great direction after last year that he doesn't really need to play Cyclops again.

If he'd had a bigger role in the first three, maybe...but they minimized the character so much in the movies that it wouldn't make sense to have him be the only one to come back in a re-cast, re-booted X-Men movie.
 
I don't see that happening. His career took off in such a great direction after last year that he doesn't really need to play Cyclops again.

If he'd had a bigger role in the first three, maybe...but they minimized the character so much in the movies that it wouldn't make sense to have him be the only one to come back in a re-cast, re-booted X-Men movie.

Not too slag on James or anything, but what has he done since X-Men? Other than Superman Returns he played the same character in the latest romantic comedies he did, or played a singing television personality.

Don't get me wrong he's a talented actor and I see great things for him in the future. But he's still a young guy, he's only 34 and could play Cyclops if given a fair chance to show off his skills. I guess if you wanted you could bring back Ashmore, Paquin, and Foster for their respective roles if they wanted to do so.

However it's easier for Marsden, Paquin, Ashmore, Page, and Foster to return as they're all young and have a lot left in their tank when it comes to their age compared to Hugh, Halle, Famke, Ian, and Patrick.
 
Not too slag on James or anything, but what has he done since X-Men? Other than Superman Returns he played the same character in the latest romantic comedies he did, or played a singing television personality.

He got terrific reviews for both Hairspray and Enchanted, appeared on the successful soundtracks for both, and had much better roles in both movies. He wasn't getting that kind of attention when just played Cyclops like he is now.

And those roles really stood out. In Enchanted he played a cartoon prince and practically stole the movie. The TV host role he played in Hairspray was important to the plot because he was the one who let Tracy appear on the show and who didn't let Velma sabatoge the contest at the end.

I haven't seen 27 Dresses yet, but just going by the commericals, he not only played the romantic lead...I think he finally ended up with the girl. :wow:
 
Yeah, Marsden is doing well for himself. He was well received in Hairspray, Enchanted, and 27 Dresses. He also just started filming David O. Russell's Nailed. As much as I like him in the role, I don't see him returning as Cyclops.
 
He got terrific reviews for both Hairspray and Enchanted, appeared on the successful soundtracks for both, and had much better roles in both movies. He wasn't getting that kind of attention when just played Cyclops like he is now.

And those roles really stood out. In Enchanted he played a cartoon prince and practically stole the movie. The TV host role he played in Hairspray was important to the plot because he was the one who let Tracy appear on the show and who didn't let Velma sabatoge the contest at the end.

I haven't seen 27 Dresses yet, but just going by the commericals, he not only played the romantic lead...I think he finally ended up with the girl. :wow:

I forgot about Enchanted. I mean he's not really taking on huge big time roles and could really use a film that could propel him to a leading man status. I remember when he was cast to play Jesse Custer in the Preacher, which would've been perfect for him and a different role than what we're used to seeing him in.

But as you can see I would really like to see him return as Cyclops. He's still young and keeps himself in pretty good shape.


I just found a recent Zakk Penn interview on the Hulk forums and he speaks about the possiblity of an Avengers movie, X3, X-Men fans, and The Incredible Hulk obviously. Here's a little sample of what he had to say about X-Men fans and internet fans in general.



CMix: Well, you mentioned that you come at it from a fan's perspective. Does thinking that way make you wonder, "What's going to happen on the Internet if I do this?"

ZP: Sure. Absolutely. Particularly after the last X-Men movie, Simon Kimberg and I did this whole interview online, and it was like a running thing where we tried to answer questions from fans about what we were going to do. I was really blunt. People asked, "Is Cyclops going to have a bigger role in this movie? Is it going to be more his story than Wolverine's?" And I said, "No, It is not."

I said, "If you want me to go into it, I will, but I'm not going to ******** you. ... If what you want is to see a literal translation of the comics that you love, you're not going to get it. And maybe that's fair and maybe it isn't."

CMix: Well, the first three movies were essentially Wolverine's story...

ZP: Absolutely. That was done for a lot of reasons. One, because with the first movie, Wolverine's the most popular character even before Hugh Jackman played him. Second, Hugh Jackman became a big star playing him, so now they really wanted it to be about him. Third, it works better on screen.

With Cyclops, you can't see his eyes. It's a harder character to relate to for the audience. ... On top of all that, some of the reason might be people who don't give a **** about what the fans want and are going to do whatever they want, add whatever they want to read into it, even if it's not true to the comics.

What frustrated me was, I thought that fans would appreciate that I could be straight with them -- unlike the way people normally just tell them what they want to hear.

CMix: And they didn't appreciate it, in your opinion?

ZP: Not really. I could say to them, "Look this isn't going to be treated the way you want. Is Phoenix going to be a cosmic force that's a giant bird of fire? No, because it doesn't fit into the world. If you're going to get angry, go ahead and be angry at me about that, because I'm just telling you that straight up."

And I thought they would at least appreciate someone being honest with them and saying, "Look this is what you can expect and what you can't expect."

The irony is, I found that it didn't work that way. [I found that] whoever the messenger was, because I was telling them things they didn't want to hear, they couldn't separate between me telling them "I'm not saying I want it this way, I'm saying that's the way it's going to be" and blaming me for all of it.

It's very irrational, and they create these fake canonical things... You know, if the Hulk isn't this height, it's wrong -- and it's just ridiculous. There's no way to deal with it.

But what's bad is that there are times when they're right about that type of stuff. When I say, "'No, exactly what you're complaining about is what's making the movie worse, you're totally right." Like if the Phoenix is going to be set up as being part of the story, you can't drop her from the story to favor something else. You've got to finish it off.

CMix: Does it ever make you want to just say, "Enough of this ****. I don't want to do it anymore?"

ZP: Well, here's the thing: If that was enough to make me say that I don't want to do it anymore...

CMix: ... You would have given up a long time ago, right?

ZP: Right. And also, that's letting a few bad apples win. I mean, one of the things people have to remember is that it's always harder with the Internet. You hear the negative voices much more than you hear the positive ones.

So I can't let a group of people who just have a bug up their asses determine what I do with my life. But I will tell you that the experience made me realize that this is a losing proposition. Fundamentally, trying to engage the fans this way online isn't helping them and it isn't helping me.
 
Fox without question. They always do this sort of thing. The writers would be next. They promised all this **** and it never happened.
 
I forgot about Enchanted. I mean he's not really taking on huge big time roles and could really use a film that could propel him to a leading man status. I remember when he was cast to play Jesse Custer in the Preacher, which would've been perfect for him and a different role than what we're used to seeing him in.

I think Enchanted was the role to do that. He was an absolutely scene-stealer, and a lot of critics liked him better than Patrick Dempsey, who was the leading man in Enchanted.
 
People actually think Marsden would come back for a fourth and beyond? Wow... just wow... heck the most likely major actor that MIGHT come back for an X-4 is Ashmore... but even he is getting up there and will have probably moved on to other things when the time comes. I mean I'd say its 50/50 at best... Paquin is done with this franchise... Page will be too big a name by then... it will never come together. Recast or don't even bother with it.
 
I think Page is under contract.
 
People actually think Marsden would come back for a fourth and beyond? Wow... just wow... heck the most likely major actor that MIGHT come back for an X-4 is Ashmore... but even he is getting up there and will have probably moved on to other things when the time comes. I mean I'd say its 50/50 at best... Paquin is done with this franchise... Page will be too big a name by then... it will never come together. Recast or don't even bother with it.


Marsden already said that if they asked him to return he would do it.
 
Marsden already said that if they asked him to return he would do it.

Yeah who doesn't? The fact that Fox has about four other Marvel projects ahead of this one... I doubt X-4 is happening any time soon and that means the cast will be long out the door if and when the time comes.
 
I don't understand those who see almost impossible to have most of the cast back.

Come on, is Movie Industry, America, Hollywood, or whatever you want to call it.

X-men is a big franchise and Fox is Fox, if they want to make X4, they can get the cast back, that's for sure, whatever the actor's status is. (Halle, Patrick, including Ellen in a few years).

It's not like getting the peace in the world. So why not close the discussion about the cast returning or not?
 
Well... delusional people can keep trying if they must. Again don't get me wrong... I can see Ashmore coming back... I can see Page coming back (if they paid her a boat load)... Rogue would definitely be recasted. Cyclops won't be coming back so I won't even go there. Maybe Kelsey Grammer comes back but I doubt it. You are looking at recasts in every other slot. But if they can get even 2/3 guys that I mentioned back then I am certainly on board for a sequel.
 
I forgot about Enchanted. I mean he's not really taking on huge big time roles and could really use a film that could propel him to a leading man status. I remember when he was cast to play Jesse Custer in the Preacher, which would've been perfect for him and a different role than what we're used to seeing him in.

But as you can see I would really like to see him return as Cyclops. He's still young and keeps himself in pretty good shape.


I just found a recent Zakk Penn interview on the Hulk forums and he speaks about the possiblity of an Avengers movie, X3, X-Men fans, and The Incredible Hulk obviously. Here's a little sample of what he had to say about X-Men fans and internet fans in general.



CMix: Well, you mentioned that you come at it from a fan's perspective. Does thinking that way make you wonder, "What's going to happen on the Internet if I do this?"

ZP: Sure. Absolutely. Particularly after the last X-Men movie, Simon Kimberg and I did this whole interview online, and it was like a running thing where we tried to answer questions from fans about what we were going to do. I was really blunt. People asked, "Is Cyclops going to have a bigger role in this movie? Is it going to be more his story than Wolverine's?" And I said, "No, It is not."

I said, "If you want me to go into it, I will, but I'm not going to ******** you. ... If what you want is to see a literal translation of the comics that you love, you're not going to get it. And maybe that's fair and maybe it isn't."

CMix: Well, the first three movies were essentially Wolverine's story...

ZP: Absolutely. That was done for a lot of reasons. One, because with the first movie, Wolverine's the most popular character even before Hugh Jackman played him. Second, Hugh Jackman became a big star playing him, so now they really wanted it to be about him. Third, it works better on screen.

With Cyclops, you can't see his eyes. It's a harder character to relate to for the audience. ... On top of all that, some of the reason might be people who don't give a **** about what the fans want and are going to do whatever they want, add whatever they want to read into it, even if it's not true to the comics.

What frustrated me was, I thought that fans would appreciate that I could be straight with them -- unlike the way people normally just tell them what they want to hear.

CMix: And they didn't appreciate it, in your opinion?

ZP: Not really. I could say to them, "Look this isn't going to be treated the way you want. Is Phoenix going to be a cosmic force that's a giant bird of fire? No, because it doesn't fit into the world. If you're going to get angry, go ahead and be angry at me about that, because I'm just telling you that straight up."

And I thought they would at least appreciate someone being honest with them and saying, "Look this is what you can expect and what you can't expect."

The irony is, I found that it didn't work that way. [I found that] whoever the messenger was, because I was telling them things they didn't want to hear, they couldn't separate between me telling them "I'm not saying I want it this way, I'm saying that's the way it's going to be" and blaming me for all of it.

It's very irrational, and they create these fake canonical things... You know, if the Hulk isn't this height, it's wrong -- and it's just ridiculous. There's no way to deal with it.

But what's bad is that there are times when they're right about that type of stuff. When I say, "'No, exactly what you're complaining about is what's making the movie worse, you're totally right." Like if the Phoenix is going to be set up as being part of the story, you can't drop her from the story to favor something else. You've got to finish it off.

CMix: Does it ever make you want to just say, "Enough of this ****. I don't want to do it anymore?"

ZP: Well, here's the thing: If that was enough to make me say that I don't want to do it anymore...

CMix: ... You would have given up a long time ago, right?

ZP: Right. And also, that's letting a few bad apples win. I mean, one of the things people have to remember is that it's always harder with the Internet. You hear the negative voices much more than you hear the positive ones.

So I can't let a group of people who just have a bug up their asses determine what I do with my life. But I will tell you that the experience made me realize that this is a losing proposition. Fundamentally, trying to engage the fans this way online isn't helping them and it isn't helping me.

What an absolute ******* Zak Penn is, how does this guy get any work, he writes like a child.
 
Well... delusional people can keep trying if they must. Again don't get me wrong... I can see Ashmore coming back... I can see Page coming back (if they paid her a boat load)... Rogue would definitely be recasted. Cyclops won't be coming back so I won't even go there. Maybe Kelsey Grammer comes back but I doubt it. You are looking at recasts in every other slot. But if they can get even 2/3 guys that I mentioned back then I am certainly on board for a sequel.

Cyclops would be back. Marsden said himself that they left it open for him to return and a sequel(Him being held prisoner by Sinister) would be a good way to bring him back.

However a restart is what I'm honestly hoping for. I know it's not going to happen anytime soon and maybe not in this lifetime, but the only way to really create an X-Men film that to its fullest potential is to wipe the slate clean and start over.
 
Cyclops would be back. Marsden said himself that they left it open for him to return and a sequel(Him being held prisoner by Sinister) would be a good way to bring him back.

However a restart is what I'm honestly hoping for. I know it's not going to happen anytime soon and maybe not in this lifetime, but the only way to really create an X-Men film that to its fullest potential is to wipe the slate clean and start over.

And when was this quote? A year a go? Year and a half? Even if it was late 07 I don't put much stock into it. All these actors (after the third installment) say they'd love to do a fourth. I don't see the point of bringing back one guy if you can't bring back the other actors. Plus you'd need him long term if they have another trilogy in mind which they probably will have when the time comes.

Yeah (reboot) ain't gonna happen for 10-15 years at least. Even if they rebooted I don't think it would be an origin, maybe they'd even keep loose continuity. Regardless, hasn't this debate been going on for like two years now? Why are we still talking about this crap? I was just renewing my interest because Young X-Men sounds interesting to me... even with Penn on board. I think they can do guys like Cyclops justice. I don't see how he wouldn't be the main guy with Wolverine out of the picture (unless the get g** and make Gambit the lead). Knowing Fox anything is possible... but without Rogue Gambit would be useless. Just my two cents on that.
 
looks like im a little late on thsi but i'd just like to defend Ratner for a second.

ok he did a pretty bad job on X3 but he didnt to it deliberatley nor did he do it through greed, he did it poorly just because he isnt all that good. if they offered me X3 it would have been utter garbage compared to the one we actually got but hell i would have tried as Ratner did, he wanted to have a go at X-men and he did, he just didnt do it very well.

Fox and or singer are clearly to blame for the sub-par X3, if Singer was allowed/wanted to finish we would of atleast had some consistancy in the themes of the film, good or bad atleast all three would have felt the same. to me 3 has the more kid-friendly feel of the fantatsic four films where as X1 feels a whole lot darker in tone and its hard to belive they are technically the same story.

dont get me wrong im not against these films being for kids, its to easy for us now to see dark & brooding as a sign of quality, films can be light-hearted and fun yet still be good and if all three of the Xfilms had been handled the same way i would have been alright with that, what i dont like is how different X3 feels from X1.
 
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