whos to blame? fox, ratner , writers?

[DarknessOfDeath]

I dunno...im getting creeped out here...aaah... if u wanna know...go to the cyclops thread- second last page...

 

[Kazaire]

Fox's fault. It was rushed through production too fast.

 

[ntcrawler]

*Joins*

...please oh please oh please...

There's already 2 full length alternate X3 novels. Plus 3 major fanfic projects. With a full length graphic novel on the way (also as an alternate to X3).

Does that at least partially answer your pleas?

 

[borinquenknight]

You know, I wonder if that's why the number 3 doesn't actually appear in the film's title, because the real X3 will be coming in a couple years. (please oh please oh please be the reason!)

"The Last Stand" could very well mean this will be the last time anyone stands in line for an Xmovie.

 

[CapBeerCino]

There's already 2 full length alternate X3 novels. Plus 3 major fanfic projects. With a full length graphic novel on the way (also as an alternate to X3).

Does that at least partially answer your pleas?

Where? By who?

 

[rowan sjet]

^ Links?

 

[ntcrawler]

Where? By who?

X3 alternatives you want? X3 alternatives you shall have!!!

Gather around everyone! Dsappointed with X3? Want alternatives to X3? Ones written by dedicated fans who actually do their research and put in a sincere effort? Then gather around.

I've read quite a few so far and am working on 2 myself. The following are alternative X3 fanfics and novels that I personally recommend as a must-read, and I'll tell you all why:

"Autumn"
Author: Kalimando P
Status: complete
URL: http://p102.ezboard.com/fthephoenixstfrm240.showMessage?topicID=1.topic

This is a short story, only a couple pages long. It's not really an X3 alternative but more of a bridge linking X2 and X3. It's a touching story that continues the overall tone left behind by Bryan Singer's X2. Basically, the message of the story is: "don't be sad, it's not over. There'll be more. Something good will be coming.", like Charles X hinted at the end of X2.

"Phoenix Rising"
Author: Juliebmr
Status: complete
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2261286/1/

Alternate to X3. It was written and finished before X3 came out, so the author didn't know how things would turn out, although there are alot of surprising similarities. This story is not awe-inspiring or epic but fairly straightforward and simple, yet manages to do fairly well. I like this one especially because it shows alot of character development and interactions between the team. Jean comes back but not as the monster you saw in X3. This story features the Hellfire club. My main disappointment is that the author doesn't appreciate the awsome and far-reaching powers as well as the level of evil that the Hellfire club is. Instead she focuses on how this affects the rest of the characters. There are some really touching scenes between Jean and Scott and how she helps Scott to heal his wounds. My favorite aspects are the way she shows Jean's true strengths and heart, both towards her Phoenix powers and towards Logan's continued prodding. She does some things which I thought were very mature and courageous and for that I'd want to give this Jean a standing ovation.
She also wrote two other stories that are prequels to this one. One is about Scott and his journey from that of a broken, battered orphan into becoming a man thanks to Charles X and his new family, and the other is about Scott's college years and the birth of the X-men and the Xavier school.


'X3: Power Corrupts"
Author: Philips S
Status: In Progress. 5 chapters so far
URL: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3039045/1/

This author is mad as hell at X3 and is not holding back!!! Just look at his intro: "After the atrocity that was X-Men 3: Last Stand, I decided to write my own version of how the brilliant first two parts of the X-Men Movie Franchise should have continued. I will strive to write a story that gets by without opening up 20 different plot threads and then letting them fizzle and die, without killing or discarding all the main characters built up in the first two movies, and without resorting to endless action scenes to disguise the complete lack of plot and character development."
So far he's doing a good job!!! He's done nicely at tying up some of the lose ends from X2 and continuing things along what Bryan Singer intended. There is alot of interaction between characters. Scott isn't left along to brood, but actually receives comfort and support from the rest of the family. From what I can tell so far, his his version Jean becomes the Phoenix the same way she did in the comics: That it's a separate entity which has given her new life and form. Well written and I'm eager to see where he takes things.


"Seeing Yet Blind"
Author: Foresaken-Shadow
Status: complete
URL: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2980119/1/

This one takes an approach that's WAY different from what the movie did. Seems that Scott's met the Phoenix persona before and he knows that she doesn't like him. What Scott finds rising from the dead at Alkali Lake is a bitter, hateful, yet physically harmless (so far) Phoenix that taunts him. Eventually things get really complicated when Jean shows up, but turns out to be not what she claims she is. Later things get even more complicated when Jean and Phoenix physically split. What I like about this one is that the author turns the tables on Jean and teaches her a lesson. How would she like it if Scott was dying instead of her? It's definitely a shocking wakeup call that brings her back to her senses and helps her realize how painful it is to want to die and leave someone behind.



And now to the novels:

"Echo: An Original X-Men Novel"
Author: N.J. Borba
Status: in progress. 8 chatpers so far
URL: http://www.angelfire.com/art/Kaleidoscope/ECHO.htm

This novel takes another fresh approach at the concept of Jean's death and the Phoenix. In This version, Jean survives Alkali Lake but is immediately captured by Magneto who attempts to turn her into his ultimate weapon, but by means more painful and sinister than what you saw in X3.
This novel does a fantastic job of showing Scott's grieving for his loss and how the rest of the school copes. The memorial scene was pretty touching. Even if you don't like where the story is going, just the 3 flashback scenes written so far make the entire novel worth reading IMHO! In additionally, there is a fantastic scene between Scott and Logan. They both can't sleep because they both have constant nightmares about the same person, so they talk about it over graham crackers and milk / beer in the kitchen. I think this is one of the best written scenes I've ever come across. Scott basically settles the rivalry with Logan over Jean. And he pretty much owns Logan here. He tells him why he couldn't possibly Love Jean, why she didn't love him back, and why he never really had a chance to begin with. And he says it in such a way that Logan knows he's defeated.
The rest of the story is pretty fascinating as well. A 12 year old girl known only as "Echo" shows up and is adopted by the Xavier school. And she does some things, says some things that make Scott doubt his own sanity, Xavier not sleep all night, and makes Logan feel like he's been shocked with high voltage.

"Grail: An X-Men Novel of Resurrection"
Author: Minisinoo
Status: complete
URL: http://www.themedicinewheel.net/grail/grail.html

OK, This is the big one. This is the one you'll hear me refer over and over again. This novel completely blows X3 out of the water and puts Kinberg, Penn, and even Claremont to shame!!! It's written by someone who not only is a big fan of the X-men (and an experienced writer as well, including other X-men material) but someone who has a personal interest in the mythology of the Phoenix, as well as an uncanny ability to do research on a variety of topics, and this novel shows it! This is an absolute masterpiece!!!
This novel was written before X3 came out, and the author takes a completely different approach to the Phoenix storyline. She retought everything from scratch, but did it in a way that absolutely DID NOT violate anything that was established in X1 and X2. In fact, Grail answers ALL the lose ends and questions that were set up in X1 and X2! She left nothing out!
The most striking difference between Grail and X3 is that she keeps Jean's humanity in place. in X3, Jean's death turned her into something beyond what humans could comprehend and it made her cold and distant. In Grail, her death and aftermath were peaceful and tranquil. Having become a disembodied spirit haunting Alkali Lake, she decided she wanted to return, because she missed something, someone...
The Hellfire club plays a significant role, as well as Nathaniel Essex himself. She also brings onboard Gambit, Beast, Hank's mother, Cypher, as well as the usual assortment of villains.
Written as a suspense thriller, the main question that the novel tries to answer is the ultimate reason why Jean left the plane in X2 and allowed herself to die.
The author takes the simplest and IMHO most logical approach to the whole concept of the Phoenix: no cosmic entities, no mental blocks. Phoenix is Jean and Jean is Phoenix. It is simply Jean's powers after she finishes evolving. It is a natural part of her and what mother nature intended all along. The story isn't really about what happened to Jean or what made her go bad, but about having back the Jean we love and how she copes with the changes. In Grail, she is not a monster but instead uses her powers to do positive things. The morale battle here is Jean learns from Xavier's wisdom about when it is best NOT to use her powers, even if tempted because she feels the outcome will be good. It's similar to Superman: that sometimes it is best to let humanity deal with itself in its own way without interferring. But what happens when that temptation to do good is too strong? When you become too reliant on your powers? When you can fix ALL the world's problems with a single thought or wave of a hand?
The Phoenix is supposed to have a passion for life and to create things, and Jean is a healer, driven by compassion and love. Putting the two together in Grail, you get to see the true power that is Jean Grey.
She does go Dark Phoenix later in the story but for completely different reasons. It's not due to mental blocks or alternate personas or mental manipulation, but due to love: the love for her children who are dying at the hands of a very evil enemy, making Jean release her anger and rage in order to save them and punish those responsible, only to learn that it doesn't work the way she hopes.
Finally, the ending is completely different from what you may have ever seen or expected, but if you understand the true power and courage that is Jean (her strongest powers being her compassion, love, and humanity instead of TK and telepathy), then you may find it alot more appropriate. She's troubled by the fact that she's become more poewrful than any person should ever be allowed to become, and so has a difficult choice to make: either stay here and end up killing or hurint the people she loves, or like in the X3 novel, take the next step and let evolution run its course, taking her to a new level of existence, beyond the grasp of humanity. What happens? I won't spoil it for you. An edge-of-your seat roller coaster ride that Grail is deserves to be read end to end. However, I will leave this little hint to jean's final outcome by quoting a conversation that Charles X has with Hank about what Jean has become:

"She may no longer be what you and I consider mortal, but she is still human"

I'd be happy to hear everyone's opinions about these and other alternate X3 stories. These writers went to alot of effort to put them together and definitely deserve to be read.

I'm working on two projcts as well along with Ms. Vix: One is a rewrite of X3 followed by a sequel, the other is an X3/X4 combo that takes a fresh and unrestricted approach and will be released as a full graphical comic format. Hope to be posting them soon. In the meantime, please enjoy and read away!!!

 

[ntcrawler]

BTW, if you want more information about the "Grail" novel, check out the author's intro here:

http://www.themedicinewheel.net/grail/grail_endnotes.html

She definitely takes things to a new level beyond anything that X3's writers could have ever come up with.

My favorite quote and one which exemplifies the theme of this book is this passage about the Phoenix that I found touching:

There is ever, only one phoenix.

Except when she refuses to rise.

The phoenix must live without mother or father, without kith or kin, without mate. She is alone. And that was beyond bearing.

In choosing mortality, she chose companionship, and love. And it's only love that can kill a phoenix.

In the acceptance of death, she found her true rebirth -- and her salvation. In the acceptance of death, she found her own grail.


This is story-telling at its best. I hope the people who made X3 read this and end up putting paper bags on their heads for the shameful piece of work they tried feeding us.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

How can you conclude a saga with a film that doesn't answer any of the questions or plot points that were set up in the previous 2 films? How can that be considered an ending?

What plot points from X-Men and X2 are actually left over?

I'd say that X-Men: The Last Stand concluded everything pretty well...

 

[XCharlieX]

Ill just say the bad reviews are Ratners fault from what I heard before the film came out. "I have ADD" lol.

Its a shame too because the film wasnt all that bad imo... the director just likes living dangerously with such a responsibility. Thats why i fear for the spinoffs... he could sink them if he feels theres no room for improvement if he just looks at the cash it made and ignores the complaints.

I have a wait and see attitude with the spinoffs.

 

[Theweepeople]

Ill just say the bad reviews are Ratners fault from what I heard before the film came out. "I have ADD" lol.

Its a shame too because the film wasnt all that bad imo... the director just likes living dangerously with such a responsibility. Thats why i fear for the spinoffs... he could sink them if he feels theres no room for improvement if he just looks at the cash it made and ignores the complaints.

I have a wait and see attitude with the spinoffs.

Ratners going to direct the spinoffs? I had already considered whether I should give any more theater money to Fox while Tom Rothman is the CEO. If this information is true than I certaintly won't be seeing these spinoff's in the theater.

 

[danoyse]

There's no director announced for any of the spinoffs yet.

 

[CapBeerCino]

X3 alternatives you want? X3 alternatives you shall have!!!

Bless you - you are a good man!

I'm afraid I won't be anywhere near my computer for the rest of the week (but I'll finally see SR! ) now I have lots to wait for!

Thanx ntcrawler!

 

[ntcrawler]

^ Links?

Scroll back a few messages, I posted a couple links that should keep you busy for a few days and let you sleep and rest easy knowing that your favorite hands are being treated better by other writers than in X3

 

[ntcrawler]

Ratners going to direct the spinoffs? I had already considered whether I should give any more theater money to Fox while Tom Rothman is the CEO. If this information is true than I certaintly won't be seeing these spinoff's in the theater.

Isn't it obvious? He's a wolverine fanboy. Just look at that group picture of him all smiling giddy because he's wearing an X uniform and wielding claws.

At least then he'll be in his native realm. The man CANNOT do slow scenes that involve character interactions or romance.

 

[XCharlieX]

Ratners going to direct the spinoffs? I had already considered whether I should give any more theater money to Fox while Tom Rothman is the CEO. If this information is true than I certaintly won't be seeing these spinoff's in the theater.

Well i dont know really but a lot of times when a director wants to do more and theyre in good standign with the company they get more attempts. Either way i fear they may give these projects to folks who may fumble. I can easily see the spinoffs being easily forgotten entertainment with poor reviews. (im talking 40% or lower at RT heh) I dont think next time the film will be as controversial, itll be a landslide of "it stinks" if he keeps playing roulette heh.

 

[BasinCityBlues]

Fox. they told the writers to kill off Cyclops(or they would've been fired) and Ratner did well with what he was given.

 

[tonytr1687]

Isn't it obvious? He's a wolverine fanboy. Just look at that group picture of him all smiling giddy because he's wearing an X uniform and wielding claws.

At least then he'll be in his native realm. The man CANNOT do slow scenes that involve character interactions or romance.

I dunno, what's weird is Family Man was a slow, character-oriented film that was very different from Ratner's other flicks. Unfortunately he didnt use the Family Man approach with X3, he used the Rush Hour/After the Sunset approach.

 

[The Ones]

X-men 3: Rush Hour

 

[ntcrawler]

Bless you - you are a good man!

I'm afraid I won't be anywhere near my computer for the rest of the week (but I'll finally see SR! ) now I have lots to wait for!

Thanx ntcrawler!

[bows] Please enjoy! i'd like to hear your thoughts and compare notes on what you thought of these alternative X3's.

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

He screwed X3 by putting the story focused on more wolvie then Cyclops and also made it off track from comics for ratner ^_^ I guess......

 

[Voli23]

Yeah, I never liked Cyclops as much as the others, but the amount of storyline he got in X3 was just disrespectful and wrong.

 

[ntcrawler]

Yeah, I never liked Cyclops as much as the others, but the amount of storyline he got in X3 was just disrespectful and wrong.

I can't decide whether he played the best role in the film or the worst role. On one side, he was the only person that never gave up hope on Jean. He saw things that no one else did and went batk to find something. The exact reasons aren't explained, whether it had something to do with him blasting the lake, or just being close to her, but he managed to reawaken Jean, and for a little bit had his impossible dream come true. He had the love of his life back, all to himself and once the shock and initial fear passed, he had to be the happiest guy in the world. So that part's good

On the other hand, the way things are portrayed in the film, his actions caused the awakening of a monster that soon went amok unleashed hell and destruction on the X-Men and San Francisco. So that had to be bad.

That's quite a major shift!!! That's beyond ironic and crazy. And yes, I feel also that it's very disrespectful and wrong.

 

[PhoenixFire]

I think the logical choice would be some unholy combination of the three, but ultimately the blame lies with Fox for assebling that team and driving Bryan away in the first place.

 

[Mike059jig]

The blame on the writers then Ratner then fox