why...did they destroy the avengers

[King_Mungi]

read that again knowing what you know about Wanda

I never read it in the first place like I said, so I don't know the description they gave about the creation of Choas Magic. She has reality altering powers, but even in the JLA/Avengers crossover if you consider that canon had a stronger field of Choas magic in the JLA universe.

I don't think Bendis has explained what the hell that whole "chaos magic doesn't exist" thing was, though people have called him on it with instances like this

(btw, not the biggest deal in the world, but it's "arc" in this sense, not "ark". an "ark" is a container or vessel, usually for lots of animals or the ten commandments)

Hmmm...interesting. Also wasn't it Dr.Strange in Avengers #503 that said there was no such thing as Choas Magic? and that he offered an apprenticeship to Scarlet Witch? when was that? I guess I should pick up the arc just to clarify it for myself.

Thanks for the correction, but I know about Noah's ark and how it's used. Just thought they were still spelt the same. My mistake.

 

[thor87]

to you?

because you're the proverbial "stupid newbie"

but to expand on that: your arrogance in debating subjects when you cleary know nothing about the other side of it. You scoff at the notion of the black panther's abilities, then ask what they are. Your insistence that superman clones bring nothing to the table, when you've demonstrated no knowledge of the importance of such works like Miracle Man, Squadron Supreme, and the Authority. Your notion that the Avengers have to be powerful to be interesting as well. Need I remind you that at one time, the team was just Cap, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch? oh, and comments like these don't help either:

uh-huh

how is she not realizing that? is she blind?

no one was doing that

never heard that one before

isn't that like saying the Model T is the best car?


not to say that you and I can't get along, but I'll respond appropriately to individual instances.

first off, i may be new here but im not new to comic books, the reason i asked for what the black panther has done is because i know of his powers as stated on marvel.com and the other information that provieds but that isnt always current. Now the superman clones have there purposes as long as they are recognized as such, and people dont insist upon them as being original, and please now that the scarlet witch has basically destroyed the avengers and rewritten history, so dont try and tell me a team with her on it is weak, same with quicksilver and hawkeye, they may not be pysically strong, but the team needs a speedster, and hawkeye if i recall did a lot more than just pull his weight,

i dont know what made you act this way towards me, but i guess you dont like other peoples points of view, or maby you just dont like people who dont agree with you. Heck maby ill give you the bennefit of the doubt and say your just having a rough week.

 

[Deadpool187]

i don't mind the lineup except for maybe this Ronin guy and Wolverine. and having two Spider- characters on the team who aren't partners (like antman & the wasp) is kind of pointless. and, truthfully, i'd rather see Luke Cage and Spiderwoman in a Heroes 4 Hire team. but i don't mind the lineup too much. i would suggest the following though...

- one of the spiderfolk hitting the road
- more women *cough*Carol Danvers*cough*
- Luke Cage being made as powerful as Wonderman
- less ninja
- Nick Fury becoming a mentor of sorts to the team
- a new writer (Geoff Johns, Joe Casey, or JMS preferably)
- keep McNiven

Why dont you like Ronin?

 

[Elijya]

first off, i may be new here but im not new to comic books, the reason i asked for what the black panther has done is because i know of his powers as stated on marvel.com and the other information that provieds but that isnt always current. Now the superman clones have there purposes as long as they are recognized as such, and people dont insist upon them as being original, and please now that the scarlet witch has basically destroyed the avengers and rewritten history, so dont try and tell me a team with her on it is weak, same with quicksilver and hawkeye, they may not be pysically strong, but the team needs a speedster, and hawkeye if i recall did a lot more than just pull his weight,

i dont know what made you act this way towards me, but i guess you dont like other peoples points of view, or maby you just dont like people who dont agree with you. Heck maby ill give you the bennefit of the doubt and say your just having a rough week.

I am having a rough week - I'm moving into a new place, which is pretty stressful, and I got a flat this week, so yeah. Thanks for noticing

but you asked why, so I gave you a couple of reasons

oh, and wanda may have been able to do all that stuff, but she certainly couldn't back then. Just like varient and I said, the Avengers have been WAY weaker than this before. But it's not about having a strong team (if it was, why not have the team be Hulk, Thor, Silver Surfer, Phoenix, and Dr. Strange and change their names to the Ass-kickers?) it's about the dynamic of the team. what characters does the writer want to write so he can make the book interesting to the readers? that's the way it's always been done, in every book

 

[thor87]

I am having a rough week - I'm moving into a new place, which is pretty stressful, and I got a flat this week, so yeah. Thanks for noticing

but you asked why, so I gave you a couple of reasons

oh, and wanda may have been able to do all that stuff, but she certainly couldn't back then. Just like varient and I said, the Avengers have been WAY weaker than this before. But it's not about having a strong team (if it was, why not have the team be Hulk, Thor, Silver Surfer, Phoenix, and Dr. Strange and change their names to the Ass-kickers?) it's about the dynamic of the team. what characters does the writer want to write so he can make the book interesting to the readers? that's the way it's always been done, in every book

first off, im sorry that youve had a bad week, secondly i agree that the avengers dont need to be ultra powerfull, but it is a little disconcerting to see the team have a large amount of lower level characters and then bring in the ultra powerfull sentry to try and balance things out. You see when you have hero's like luke cage, whos a street level hero, and then you bring in sentry who went toe-toe with galactus, i just see that as a disconnect

 

[iloveclones]

Damnable Double Post!!!!!! Damn your eyes!!!!!!!!!

[Marty Feldman] Too Late! [/Marty Feldman]

 

[iloveclones]

It's funny to me when I see people put together their Avenger's Dream Team, and all they concentrate are their powers. Either Ultra-powerful, or a mix that includes one of each (speedster, brawler, firepower, tactician, etc.) All I care about is what mix of personalities that will lead to stories. I don't care much if they all have the power level of Kitty Pryde. That's secondary to me. How they relate to each other is what is going to create friction and drama, not if they can take on the Hulk.

By the way, welcome to your new home Elijya.

 

[Elijya]

well said, ILC

and thanks

 

[hippie_hunter]

My problem with the line up is that some characters just don't belong on the team: most particularly Luke Cage (Hero for Hire) and Wolverine (X-Men). And personally I just don't care for the Sentry and Spider-Woman. However I do think that Spider-Man and Daredevil (its so damn obvious that he's Ronin ) could be some potentially kick ass Avengers.

My Avenger's line-up
Captian America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Ant-Man (Hank Pym), Wasp, Hawkeye, Vision, Black Widow, Warbird, Dr. Strange, Sub-Mariner, Black Panther, Falcon

 

[Elijya]

yeah, but it's interesting to see some people you never expected to on the team. It's not like it's irrevocable

and that's an awfully big line up. Rule of thumb for super teams is 7 members. That way, between vilalins and guest stars, new readers won't be confused by the number of characters running around

 

[hippie_hunter]

yeah, but it's interesting to see some people you never expected to on the team. It's not like it's irrevocable

and that's an awfully big line up. Rule of thumb for super teams is 7 members. That way, between vilalins and guest stars, new readers won't be confused by the number of characters running around

I prefer bigger teams. Hell my perfect Justice League line-up adds another 8 characters to the main 7. Not every story has to have every member. Sorta like how the Justice League cartoon was where most stories only had about 3 or 4 members out of 7 appearing and having all 7 together rarely for a big kick ass story. A bigger team also show power and teams like the JLA and the Avengers should be the Earth's most powerful heroes

 

[Colossal Spoons]

My only problem with this team is the lack of projectiles. This seems to be more of a brawling team (Cap, Spidey, Luke, Logan). Iron Man alone can't give me my projectile fix. Being the old school Street Fighter fan that I am, I like to; simply put, "shoot shyt". I don't have any suggestions for additions to the team but I wouldn't add Ronin who's a close range fighter, but I'd go for a longer range person. Just my two pennies

 

[SpideyInATree]

Spidey and Cap have projectiles.

Spidey has his webs. Cap has his shield.

What...do you want them shooting death beams out of their eyes or something?

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Again i look at the title of this thread,and it still comes back to the surface.Many fans do not like what has happened.I KNOW that all of this will be changed once another writer takes over the Avengers,or has it happened already?Im not into Marvel much now,mainly DC now.

I can only hope that things get better.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Spidey and Cap have projectiles.

Spidey has his webs. Cap has his shield.

What...do you want them shooting death beams out of their eyes or something?

Not so far as death beams, but a good laser here or there wouldn't hurt. Spidey's webs and Cap's shield are the lowest form of projectiles in the Marvel universe(next to Rockslide shooting his hands at enemies)

 

[SpideyInATree]

They're still projectiles.

 

[Muze]

They're still projectiles.

only when thrown or shot.

 

[Arach Knight]

Truth be told, I never liked the original Avengers. I didn't like Beast being one. I didn't like Captain America as much, given his jingoistic portrayal at times. Hawkeye never impressed me. The list goes on. But as I grew up, I came to respect a lot of the characters as individuals. I started to cheer on Hawkeye for being the "Batman" of the group. Everybody had powers or armor, but he was just a guy with a bow. Captain America started to be a supporter of the American ideal rather than the American government etc.

None of that changed my opinion of the Avengers as a team. I in fact believe I only own a total of two Avengers books....and those are West Coast Avengers. However, New Avengers caught my eye. The team is really odd in arrangement, but they work. I don't see why people don't want two "spider" characters on the team. It neither adds nor detracts from the plot. And it gets a really cool character to come out of retirement. And it isn't like all of her powers are the same. Last time I checked, Peter didn't shoot bio-electrical charges from his hands. I like this team as is, because they now sort of have that X-Men dynamic. It has the humor and the heart. I also approve of them no longer being government sanctioned. I think that is what displeased me the most about the old Avengers.

 

[Muze]

Truth be told, I never liked the original Avengers. I didn't like Beast being one. I didn't like Captain America as much, given his jingoistic portrayal at times. Hawkeye never impressed me. The list goes on. But as I grew up, I came to respect a lot of the characters as individuals. I started to cheer on Hawkeye for being the "Batman" of the group. Everybody had powers or armor, but he was just a guy with a bow. Captain America started to be a supporter of the American ideal rather than the American government etc.

None of that changed my opinion of the Avengers as a team. I in fact believe I only own a total of two Avengers books....and those are West Coast Avengers. However, New Avengers caught my eye. The team is really odd in arrangement, but they work. I don't see why people don't want two "spider" characters on the team. It neither adds nor detracts from the plot. And it gets a really cool character to come out of retirement. And it isn't like all of her powers are the same. Last time I checked, Peter didn't shoot bio-electrical charges from his hands. I like this team as is, because they now sort of have that X-Men dynamic. It has the humor and the heart. I also approve of them no longer being government sanctioned. I think that is what displeased me the most about the old Avengers.

you approve of them not being government sanctioned. that was the whole point of an Avengers team. they were the U.S.'s appointed heroes. they weren't a group of outcasts (Xmen), a family of celebrities(Fantastic Four), youngsters (New Warriors), or a forced grouping of misanthropes like the Defenders.

 

[Arach Knight]

I just never bought into that. I think the Avengers being government sanctioned sort of contradicted some of Marvel's better characterization. How can people hate mutants for instance, The Hulk and even hate Spider-Man (who is a non mutant) but love the Avengers? Just because the government okays them? Then suddenly Hulk is an Avenger so its all peachy keen? That's far too sheepish for me to swallow. I like the fact that the New Avengers clashed with S.H.I.E.L.D in the first story arc. I like the idea that they aren't some paycheck receiving media ploy. I just agree with it much more than I do the original Avengers. Like I said, I dug a lot of the Avengers as individual characters. I just couldn't tolerate them as a team.

 

[Muze]

I just never bought into that. I think the Avengers being government sanctioned sort of contradicted some of Marvel's better characterization. How can people hate mutants for instance, The Hulk and even hate Spider-Man (who is a non mutant) but love the Avengers? Just because the government okays them?

yeah. same thing happened with Freedom Force and X-Factor. government approval means that they aren't a threat to regular human beings. Spiderman answers to no one, wears a mask, and generally doesn't interact much with the public. the Xmen seclude themselves in what technically is a military base and cause untold property damage whenever they wander into public. that's why they are feared. the Avengers have parades, press conferences, toy lines. they're also licensed. what about that is hard to understand?

Then suddenly Hulk is an Avenger so its all peachy keen?

he was erased from the role call.

That's far too sheepish for me to swallow. I like the fact that the New Avengers clashed with S.H.I.E.L.D in the first story arc.

they clashed with SHIELD because SHIELD are now the bad guys. there's obviously something up if they are employing a russian assassin to do black ops work. and this is nothing new. the old Avengers have had bad dealings with the CSA and the military.

like the idea that they aren't some paycheck receiving media ploy. I just agree with it much more than I do the original Avengers. Like I said, I dug a lot of the Avengers as individual characters. I just couldn't tolerate them as a team.

fair enough. but they aren't the Avengers. they're the New Avengers.

 

[SilverCenturion]

only when thrown or shot.

As opposed to projectiles that are neither thrown nor shot?

 

[Muze]

As opposed to projectiles that are neither thrown nor shot?

of course

 

[Arach Knight]

They simply call themselves the Avengers in the book. I mean, they clarify that they are the new (current) Avengers, but New Avengers isn't the team name. That is just the book name. Also, I suppose government approval can make a group less threatening, but that depends on how an author spins it. In the Ultimates book (which was the first incarnation of the Avengers that I read with any seriousness and regularity) has a much better take on it. They are government approved, but the general public mostly felt they were being shylocked when it came to the team. They didn't completly trust them or think that their combat situations were real. They thought it was a lot of hoax. This caused the Ultimates to need media spin doctors to play up their image. I liked that angle as it was more believable in a world that hates one kind of super hero, but not the next. It just comes off as too abitrary to say "oh hey, that's just the government, so it has to be okay." So the New Avengers and the Ultimates have my blessing. The old Avengers still don't. You don't have to agree with me you know. We can simply agree to disagree...

 

[SpideyInATree]

only when thrown or shot.

And, isn't that what a projectile IS?!