Superman Returns Why didn't Singer read the SM DC Archives?

[E-Mack]

Sounds like you wanted Birthright translated on-screen. I'm in complete agreement. That story would've been fascinating as the return of Supes on silver screens.

They wasted the opportunity.

 

[The Kid]

*bashs fist down on desk*

SINGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely wasted, yep.... =_= The kid is all I have left to like but he's in the wrong film.

 

[Backdrifter]

I dont know if most of the ppl in this forum had the chance to watch "An evening with Kevin Smith, where he, at one point of the interview, talks about the development of a script for a possible new Superman movie.

I recall, at one point, he said they ( I assume DC ) gave him incredible access to the Superman DC archives so he could work ideas into the script.

My question is then: Do you think Singer or his script writers ever got into reading that stuff, or maybe they weren't allowed to?
Because if they did, that would obviously have majorly contributed to a great movie, but we all know that's not what happened.

I've decided to make a thread about this because no one cares to reply about this singular topic in the complaints thread, and it's not actually much of a complaint, really.

Post your thoughts.
Hope this thread is original enough to stay open.

No. They were too busy servicing Richard Donner's wang.

 

[WormyT]

how cool would it have been if the Plane Sequence/ Ballpark Save was Superman's FIRST outing in an origin movie?

That could have been the public's first look at this Superman........there would be silence at first, when Supes saves the plane.....then thunderous applause......

This could have played well into the whole acceptance/belonging issue. At first, the public would accept Supes.....but Lex could turn Public Opinion against supes ( like in Birthright or even hinted at in Smalleville )......saying Supes is an alien spy....the vanguard of a coming alien invasion.....

then you could have such an invasion......led by GENERAL Zod.....or Brainiac....or Darkseid........then it's up to Supes to defend his adopted his planet against both Luthor and the alien threat........

ok.....perhaps that is a tad cliche........but there are so many stories that could've been adapted to the big screen......

And.....I still think they should have just RESTARTED the franchise...ala Batman Begins.....y'know....give a FRESH, NEW start....for a new generation..........Not something that is widely different (like the Abrams script ).......but something that is different and new....while still being respectful to tradition....

Way too compelling, way too fresh, way too exciting and original.
Theres no place for this kind of storytelling.
We simply MUST have a remake of Superman The movie and anyway, the general audience will be too confused and too dumb to understand a plot involving any villain besides Luthor. As long as Singer brings us a new adaption of Superman 2 the general audience SHOULD be safe.

 

[The Kid]

*bashes head on desk*

I can't figure out why Singer went with the hackman lex as his model for lex luthor. oh my god... You know.... I think his plan in this is a combination of his first plan in stm and his last plan in Quest for peace... ugh...

 

[Spare-Flair]

What's even more ironic is that D.C. comics has pulled off a much better "Superman Returns" comics in their Up Up and Away series following the 1 year after where Superman was gone.

It really showed the impact of his leaving and his return on the general public and individuals which is what Singer was completely lacking. If you setup the premise to be about how the world got on without Superman, why don't you show any of that conflict at all???

And Lex uses crystals to commandeer a large Kryptonian ship and attacks Metropolis with it to exact his revenge on the city for betraying him for Superman. Lex claims that he was the one who built Metropolis into the city that it is today and if not for Superman it would still be his. Also if not for Superman Lex claims he could have been a great force for good - ended world hunger or cured cancer. When Superman returns to confront him - he demands to know where the cure for hunger or cancer is since Superman has been gone for a year. Of course Lex has produced nothing in that year but evil and mayhem. He tells Lex he is just a pathetic guy who always puts his blame on others when the fault lies with himself.

It all works amazingly well.

 

[BULLITT]

Like Jacques Demers, former Head Coach of the Montreal Canadiens, and Detroit Red Wings - he's gone through life not being able to read.

 

[_Qwerty_]

Who said Singer didn't read the comic archives? In fact I distinctly remember him saying that he read For All Seasons and Secret Identity. In fact the scene of him floating in space above Earth is directly from Secret Identity.

You're all just bitter because you didn't get Byrne's Man Of Steel pasted on the big screen (thank god) You act like Singer wasn't allowed to continue the Donner continuity. Why shouldn't he? If he believes the Donner movies reflect his ideas on Superman, then he should continue the franchise.

 

[nogster]

no. most of us are bitter because the movie was nowhere near good enough for superman returning to the big screen.
it was a massive letdown.
he didnt really continue the donner coninuity, he basically re-imagined the donner movie with a worse script.

 

[CGHulk]

no. most of us are bitter because the movie was nowhere near good enough for superman returning to the big screen.
it was a massive letdown.
he didnt really continue the donner coninuity, he basically re-imagined the donner movie with a worse script.

Exactly, and with a crappy Superman suit!

 

[X Knight]

but Superman is much more than the Donner movies...........those movies have already been done and are 20/30 years old.

We've waited for so long.........I think alot of us wanted something fresh, new, and different ( not Tim Burton or Abrams different ), but something original nonetheless....

 

[Lex Luthor]

Sounds like you wanted Birthright translated on-screen. I'm in complete agreement. That story would've been fascinating as the return of Supes on silver screens.

They wasted the opportunity.

I agree.

Birthright translated onto the silver screen would have been awesome. Sure, I would expect some changes of course, but that story would have been a much better way of re-introducing Superman to the general audiences after a near 20-year absence than the lackluster, Superman Returns.

 

[X Knight]

granted I probably wouldn't want Birthright translated word for word. I remember reading Birthright a while back........it was good.....but some parts I didn't like....

But....still.....they could've used the underlying premise....or a similar one.....for a restart of the franchise.

Kind of like how Batman Begins was based on Year One ( but not a direct translation ).

Actually, I just watched BB again last night.....I still get goosebumps watching it!!! lol

But, I feel where BB succeeded, and SR failed.....is that BB took us on a JOURNEY.....we got to see how Bruce Wayne / Batman progressed as a character......

Same with Peter Parker in the Spiderman movies.....or even Wolverine in the X-men movies........we got a chance to watch the characters grow and progress.....

IMO, that was what was missing in SR.....after 2 1/2 hours......the characters ( namely Superman ) never really went anywhere.......there was no progression of character......

Singer basically threw us right into the middle of an ongoing story / soap opera drama.......I really couldn't care for the characters....because I didn't get a chance to get to know them..........

That would be like watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy for the first time....but starting in the middle of the story ( The Two Towers ). Could you watch us? Yes......but you would not know Frodo and co. the same as if you started the JOURNEY with them, at the beginning.

 

[The Kid]

It does indeed feel like a sequel to a movie we never saw. And Bryan, hi welcome to the hype, No You're not limited to only being original, but Recycling STM in an vague (confusing) sequel at its essence a "same journey we have at home on DVD" sprinkled with a few visual homages to comic panels and covers is truly a waste of what superman's become since donner's film. Do. Not. Do. That. especially when you have all that money to make something special for a new generation who's grown up with more than Reeve's superman. Why jump in a time machine back to the 70s? This is finally the chance to do all the stuff that couldn't be done back then.... *bangs head on computer* ERROR!!

 

[X Knight]

good post wesyeed.........

the sad thing........SR was an amazingly BEAUTIFUL LOOKING movie......I actually enjoyed the special effects.....got goosebumps everytime Supes flew......

And, there were some great shots.....the Plane Sequence.......Supes recharging in front of the sun.....then busting through the clouds with his heat vision.....Supes lifting New Krypton ( even if all that Kryptonite would've dropped Supes like a log....lol )....and his subsequent descent back to earth......all that was absolutely brilliant to look at.....

too bad the story sucked and Singer bastardized Superman's core character........such a shame and wasted opportunity......

 

[dar-El]

You know all i want is for Singer to admit he made this film to satisfy his ego. He only knows the 50's show and the Donner original. Anything else would lose him. I think if they call Returns the final part of a Donner trilogy then start again he could be forgiven. Only drop Bosworth. She didnt hit the mark for me. But keep the music and the classic flyby at the end. (Singer got that right at least) Change the costume and set design. (50's/70's hybrid doesnt work for the city of tomorrow) Oh and if he needs help with the story, READ SOME OF THE NEW BOOKS or talk to Millar and Gough of Smallville. They understand modern Superman and they came up with the story for Spiderman2 which is one of the best comic book movies ever!

 

[X Knight]

hey....do you think Sam Raimi would've done a better job on SR than Singer??

 

[dpm07]

hey....do you think Sam Raimi would've done a better job on SR than Singer??

There are a number of directors who would have done a better job than Singer, and provided us a film that was worthy of Superman, and not some knockoff fetish film of adoration of the Donner movie.

Raimi is one director who would have done the film justice because he respects the source material. Singer only respected the Donner film, and his ego illustrated that in the movie, and that's why we have an aesthetically beautiful film, but a horrible movie in terms of execution and story delivery. The best Singer could do after all these years of a Superman hiatus on the big screen, is give us Superson, and Luthor looking for another land scheme.

Singer did the character a horrible injustice, and this is a desecration to the icon of Superman. He should not be allowed anywhere near the Superman franchise, and neither should his whack pack of fool writers Harris and Daugherty. Sadly, Singer is a great con man, because he's probably fooled WB into giving him the sequel, as well as trick people into thinking he actually can deliver a good Superman film.

 

[Kabuki_Jo]

Well, he can't fool us, that's for sure, DPM07

 

[_Qwerty_]

Same with Peter Parker in the Spiderman movies.....or even Wolverine in the X-men movies........we got a chance to watch the characters grow and progress.....

What? In the 2 years between Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2, Peter Parker was still the insecure science geek he was in high school. He had not changed one bit. In the original Spider-man, Peter went from wanting to be with MJ to realising it would be bad to be with her. This was forgotten in Spider-man 2, and Peter went back to moping over MJ again. You have a point with Wolverine... and guess what, that was Bryan Singer who did that.

IMO, that was what was missing in SR.....after 2 1/2 hours......the characters ( namely Superman ) never really went anywhere.......there was no progression of character......

There wasn't? At the beginning, Superman was lost. He was bewildered by all the changes in the world. He had lost all hope that he could experience life on Krypton. By the end, Superman has a new found sense of purpose when he discovers he has a son.

Singer basically threw us right into the middle of an ongoing story / soap opera drama.......I really couldn't care for the characters....because I didn't get a chance to get to know them..........

That's ridiculous. Singer chose to create a story in an established continuity because EVERYONE knows the Superman story. another Superman origin story would be redundant and repetitive.

And if you do want to get to know the characters before the events in SR, Singer has cleverly gave you an established history.. Superman The Movie and Superman II. Don't like them? Tough luck.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I belive that Singer did have access to the DC archives,but a decision was made to either not read them,or to put their own spin on Superman.To "refresh" Superman in a way,and it looks like that idea was not the best move...

 

[_Qwerty_]

I belive that Singer did have access to the DC archives,but a decision was made to either not read them,or to put their own spin on Superman.To "refresh" Superman in a way,and it looks like that idea was not the best move...

I don't understand how you can think Superman Returns was an attempt to reinvent Superman. It is an obvious reintroduction to established characters.

 

[Kabuki_Jo]

There wasn't? At the beginning, Superman was lost. He was bewildered by all the changes in the world. He had lost all hope that he could experience life on Krypton. By the end, Superman has a new found sense of purpose when he discovers he has a son.

This is what's ridiculous.

 

[_Qwerty_]

This is what's ridiculous.

No, it's Superman's character arc. You probably missed it when you were ignoring the movie to think about how much you wanted an origin story.

 

[matthooper]

Why didn't Singer read the SM DC Archives? .

Singer was recently overheard saying...

"wait a minute, Superman was a comicbook character?"