The Wolverine Why do I keep meeting people who prefer Origins to TW?

[SoldierofWinter]

I disagree on The Wolverine as slow and Boring but that's your oporion.

It's not boring, but it can be in areas, and the movie jumps from a slow burn, Logan finding peace, Ronin Journey movie into GIANT SAMARI ROBOT almost ridiculously fast it's definitely enough to turn one off who doesn't give a crap about one of those things right away. The movie succeeds at being better than XMO in a few ways, but one of them is not consistency in character actions or story development. It doesn't help that they both have a dumb twist at the end either. Overall though, I like TW more. But that doesn't mean that others would, or should share my opinion.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I liked the twist that Yashida was the villain, and on subsequent viewings I noticed how well it was actually built to. It is the twists that come out of nowhere without regards to logic that I dislike.

 

[SoldierofWinter]

I liked the twist that Yashida was the villain, and on subsequent viewings I noticed how well it was actually built to. It is the twists that come out of nowhere without regards to logic that I dislike.

It really doesn't change how dumb it was. It also continues the dumb movie trend of what I like to call the "MWAHAHA Villain". He even Mwahaha's in the movie! Ugh, I hate Yashida as a villain so much. I also completely disagree that it was built into the movie well at all. If he was the villain the whole time, then why didn't he just have Logan abducted from his bed the same night he faked his death, so he could take his power then, or whenever he wanted, instead of just letting him wander around and possibly leave. One thing I can say about Stryker is that at least his plan has forward momentum: Manipulate Wolverine into adamantium bonding, erase his memory, use his blood to create Weapon XI. Simple and straight forward. While Yashida's plan is apparently: Manipulate Logan to come to my house in Japan, have him dosed with device to take away his powers, fake my death, let him wander around so he can leave or get killed, take my grand daughter to lure him to me, then capture Logan and take his powers. Yes, Stryker's plan is complicated by his stupid-for-the-sake-of-the-plot actions with him saying around a guy with enhanced hearing that he's going to erase his memory, which is another problem that XMO has, but it's still a better execution than Yashida's.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I don't consider The Wolverine to be slow at all. It has a relaxed, contemplative pace yes, but if that makes it slow, what is, for example, M Knight Shymalan's Unbreakable?

Slow is not inherently a bad quality. A tempo of a film helps establish a certain mood. That mood in turn helps in telling the narrative of the film or its characters. Being a fast faced film serves certain stories, being slow serves others. Simply saying a film is slow is a hollow basis for criticism.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

X-Men Origins: Wolverine appeals more to the "general public" as they only look for entertainment. It can suck as a story, completely be a disgrace to the source material, but as long as there is a big name actor/actress, special effects and explosions, and being in the "blockbuster" category, the general public will go see it, and continue to.

 

[Visualiza]

That's all opinion. I would say the exact same thing about the Wolverine. All of the characters were flat and bland. What purpose did Harada and Viper have that was so essential? Robo Silver Samurai? Their roles could have swapped with any other C list character. bad place, Harada's role WAS swapped. He IS the Silver Samurai in the comics but head red shirt in the movie. Also Viper, Silver Samurai, and "old man Yashida" had no role at all in the story this film was supposed to be based on.

Very well said. XMO is indeed the worst of all the X-movies for me, but TW may very well be the most ho-hum, inconsequential adventure in the franchise in it's own right. It was vanilla to a fault, although I've gotta say, I'm shocked that there wasn't an uproar over how the SS was treated. Far worse than any perceived injustice to characters like The Mandarin, Talia, and the like; it's on the level of Deadpool to me (rolled my eyes at both). Fitting that it happens within the same spin-off franchise.

So I think you must be missing the point of this thread. Why does the original poster keep running in to people that prefer XMOs over TW? My answer: Both Wolverine movies are weak but XMOs Wolverine has familiar characters such as Sabretooth, Blob, Gambit, and Stryker to keep fans interested. It also has some familiar faces...Liev Schrieber, Ryan Reynolds, Dominic Monaghan...

This is probably the best explanation we're likely to get for the OP's inquiry. This new movie just doesn't have much going for it. Its only saving grace is that it didn't make a mockery of itself...until the SS, that is.

X-Men Origins is worse for sure, but for me, The Wolverine is so forgettable and bland that it's not even worth mentioning.

 

[antonydelfini]

The Wolverine is one of the best superhero movies ever, and could have been my favorite solo superhero movie if not for the tonally confused and ridiculous 3rd act.

The first 2 acts were patient, moody, atmospheric, gritty, raw, real, and authentic. The themes were handled maturely and elegantly. Then the 3rd act came and it reminded me of X-Men Origins.

Top 10 superhero movies:
1. The Dark Knight 9/10
2. DOFP 9/10
3. Avengers 9/10
Winter Soldier 8.5/10
The Wolverine 8.5/10
Iron Man 8.5/10
Iron Man 3 8.5/10
X2 8.5/10
First Class 8.5/10
Spider-Man 2 8/10

 

[danoyse]

I don't consider The Wolverine to be slow at all. It has a relaxed, contemplative pace yes, but if that makes it slow, what is, for example, M Knight Shymalan's Unbreakable?

Slow is not inherently a bad quality. A tempo of a film helps establish a certain mood. That mood in turn helps in telling the narrative of the film or its characters. Being a fast faced film serves certain stories, being slow serves others. Simply saying a film is slow is a hollow basis for criticism.

 

[Team Andino]

I think Origins is easily the low point of the franchise. Even The Last Stand had more going for it. Origins isn't the worst superhero movie ever made, but that's mostly because of Hugh Jackman. He (and Liev Schreiber to an extent) elevates it above the rest of the bottom feeders. But it has nothing going for it aside from the cast.

I remember leaving the theater after the movie ended and being shocked that it was worse than X3. Not only had the franchise gone back in time, but now in quality too. It was a definite dark age as far as anything X-Men was concerned with Fox, misused characters, pointless cameo's that either didn't fit or weren't needed. Just all around a rough one. Very happy to look back now that we have DoFP and be excited again about X-Men movies (as long as they're in good hands).

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I can SORT OF see why TW isnt as well regarded as I think it should be. 1st time I watched it, I liked it, but wasnt amazed by it.

It was only when I re-watched it a few times that I truly realised just how good a movie it is, its one of those movies thats better and better with repeat viewings. Even after seeing DOFP, I watched TW and it was still amazing. Its a movie rewards you re-watching it multiple times, and the EE added even that little bit more. TW is now above X1 in the series for me.

Now my brother has only seen TW the once, and doesnt think much of it, but he likes Origins, I keep trying to get to watch TW again but he is reluctant too.

General fans dont watch movies multiple times like us fans do, most are quite content to watch a movie once and never see it again. Me on the other hand, I watch every movie I see AT LEAST twice because I dont think you can make a proper judgement on seeing any movie just the once. The amount of movies I have changed my mind on after seeing them a 2nd time has taught to do this over the years. But if the GA dont think much of a movie 1st time, they are unlikely to watch it again. I think this is why some like Origins more than TW. Maybe in time when TW starts hitting TV and people watch it it will be more appreciated. And it wouldnt be the 1st CBM this would happen too.

 

[agentorange]

Wolverine Origins got almost every character screwed up but other than that it wasnt really that bad, still the worst film of the franchise. But The Wolverine is a far better movie. I do feel like the fight with Shingen should have been more important than him fighting a freakin robot.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It isn't really a robot. It is a suit/mech hybrid similar to Iron Monger in the first Iron Man film. There is a human being inside.

 

[jihado86]

Personnally I didn't like The Wolverine movie, because the story sucks, the plot is dumb, there's nothing exciting in this movie.

and I liked X-Men Origins, because at least it wasn't boring; and it has an acceptable and enjoyable plot, despite continuity errors. and I don't care about keeping things as they were in the comics, comics are comics, movies are movies. What's the fun in watching something you already know?
this fuss also is present with Game of Thrones book readers who complain about everything.

 

[lofoa82]

If I were to have a chance to ask a question to Lauren Shuler Donner or Jackman... it would be: why the heck do good scripts need rewrites?

If you read the Christopher McQuarrie script for The Wolverine, it is mind blowing... it is gritty, raw and most of all, no giant adamantium robots.

Please do yourself a favor, and READ IT.

Regarding The Wolverine itself, as many have stated, the first two acts are amazingly done (you can clearly see Mangold´s touch on them), yet the third act, it is unexplainable what happened. The tone switched drastically and ended up cartoonish. I felt such a frustration with that. They almost nailed the movie (Honest truth, whenever I watch the movie, I always stop the movie after Logan is beaten up on the village).

I can only think that rewrites might be needed for budget purposes (ie. in order to justify - let´s say another $10M on the movie - we need to add a giant CGI robot, etc).

I am still waiting for the REAL, Wolverine movie.

Cheers,

 

[dax]

Personnally I didn't like The Wolverine movie, because the story sucks, the plot is dumb, there's nothing exciting in this movie.

and I liked X-Men Origins, because at least it wasn't boring; and it has an acceptable and enjoyable plot, despite continuity errors. and I don't care about keeping things as they were in the comics, comics are comics, movies are movies. What's the fun in watching something you already know?
this fuss also is present with Game of Thrones book readers who complain about everything.

What continuity errors?? The only movie that made any errors was First Class.

 

[psylockolussus]

Sabretooth can count as continuity error since they never explained why Sabretooth didn't seem to have an attachment with Wolverine in X1 unlike in Origins.

 

[dax]

Sabretooth can count as continuity error since they never explained why Sabretooth didn't seem to have an attachment with Wolverine in X1 unlike in Origins.

Whatever caused Sabertooth to turn into a caveman from bad place has made him too primitive and savaged to have an attachment with anyone, even Wolverine. Plus, the whole "Wolverine having amnesia" part may have factored into the non-attachment between him and Sabertooth.

 

[Legion]

Sabretooth was never called "Victor Creed" in X1.

Victor Creed was never called "Sabretooth" in Origins.

They are played by different actors and have their own distinct looks and personalities.

It's a continuity error because you know the character from the comics. To anyone else watching they're two different characters.

It's like trying to say Havok is Scott's younger brother after watching First Class. We know that from the comics but it's obvious they changed it in the films.

 

[psylockolussus]

But still the name Sabretooth was used in the marketing promotionals of Origins.

So are you saying that having a Diamond-shifting mutant in Origins and Emma Frost in First Class couldn't be considered as continuity error? Those two were intended to be the Emma Frost of the movieverse.

And Havok/Cyclops is different since they never established that they are brothers in the movieverse.

 

[dax]

Sabretooth was never called "Victor Creed" in X1.

Victor Creed was never called "Sabretooth" in Origins.

They are played by different actors and have their own distinct looks and personalities.

It's a continuity error because you know the character from the comics. To anyone else watching they're two different characters.

It's like trying to say Havok is Scott's younger brother after watching First Class. We know that from the comics but it's obvious they changed it in the films.

Hank McCoy wasn't a blue furry mutant in his X2 cameo but we all know that the man on TV and the blue furry mutant with the same name in X3 are the same person despite being played by different actors. Just because Victor was never called Sabertooth in Origins, it doesn't mean that this isn't the same Sabertooth in X1. bad place, Logan was never called Wolverine by anyone in Origins despite that he came up with the nickname and had it printed on his dog tags.

 

[Legion]

That's because it displayed his name as hank McCoy in X2 and X3. If they just called him "Beast" no one would have made that connection without knowledge of the comics.

There's nothing that connects the two creeds. The only thing they have in common is that they both fought wolverine and have claws. Trying to imagine that liev devolved into mane at some point is silly. I doubt any general audience members associated the two characters without outside influence.

"Except" for the tags? Stryker is the only person from the trilogy that knew Logan before x1. He knew him as Logan and wolverine. He took Logans request to print his "new" name. Who else would have called him wolverine in origins? This argument makes no sense.

 

[psylockolussus]

And still, the two Creeds were named as Sabretooth in the marketing. So should we ignore that?

 

[jihado86]

you know, it's a comic book movie, fiction, so, many things can be rectified and explained

for example :

- Charles Xavier walking in X-Men Origins, it can be explained with the fact that it's a mind trick.
- Sabretooth, that freaky creature in X1, was just an other mutant who somehow got the name. The Victor Creed we know as Liev, maybe he didn't appear in the trilogy + The Wolverine + DOFP because he's just dead or in some prison.

 

[dax]

That's because it displayed his name as hank McCoy in X2 and X3. If they just called him "Beast" no one would have made that connection without knowledge of the comics.

There's nothing that connects the two creeds. The only thing they have in common is that they both fought wolverine and have claws. Trying to imagine that liev devolved into mane at some point is silly. I doubt any general audience members associated the two characters without outside influence.

"Except" for the tags? Stryker is the only person from the trilogy that knew Logan before x1. He knew him as Logan and wolverine. He took Logans request to print his "new" name. Who else would have called him wolverine in origins? This argument makes no sense.

There are other things that connect the 2 Creeds like the fact that they both have the same healing powers as Wolverine (X1 Creed withstood multiple stabbings from Wolverine's claws and electrocution from Storm's lightning. Even though he was hit by Cyclops' optic laser blast and dropped from the head of the statue of liberty, there's no doubt that Creed still survived). Another connection is the fact that X1 Creed stole Wolverine's tags and wore them throughout the movie which shows that Stryker isn't the only one who knew Wolverine before X1. Any other person wouldn't care so much about Wolverine's tags but they somehow meant something to Sabertooth which means that Origins Creed and X1 Creed are the same person.

 

[Legion]

And still, the two Creeds were named as Sabretooth in the marketing. So should we ignore that?

You mean like Emma Frost?