Batman Begins Why do people dislike the 3rd act so much?

I think your missing the gist of my original post. When I say "vibe" I'm not just talking about the plot itself, but also the execution.
That's exactly what I thought you meant. I was just bringing an opinion out to the table about cliches. I wasn't talking about BB third act, nor was I comparing it to TDK. I was just speaking my mind, when I saw you guys thought BB felt cliched, when I thought TDK does too. I understood that you thought TDK had some faults, but you liked it better, because it felt more consistent. No, I got it, but I was just speaking my mind.:cwink:
 
I think your missing the gist of my original post. When I say "vibe" I'm not just talking about the plot itself, but also the execution. All the cheese they pretty much avoided the entire movie came rearing it's head in that final climax.

"Can you drive stick?"

"He'y, nice ride!"

"It's gonna blow!!" :wow:

Gordon acting like a giddy school girl when he finally shoots the pillars on the bridge, just the whole sequence seemed like a whole different movie in comparison to what came before. TDK kept a steady tone throughout, while still having light moments here and there. Like I said in my first post, the ending in that wasn't any less ridiculous, it was just handled better IMO

LOL, forgot about that. "YESSSSS!!!!"
 
Re: the last post, lol, so we have Scarecrow 'screaming like a girl' and now Gordon is 'giddy as a schoolgirl', lol, I don't know what it is about this third act and guys acting like girls with you guys, I don't know what any girls think of this 'Glen or Glenda-ish' 3rd act, but I imagine they are quite pleased that so many guys are in touch with their feminine side when under pressure.
I am laughing at that Gordon reaction now, when before I never really did.
 
Well Gordon's wasn't nearly as bad as Scarecrow's :cwink:
 
Oh wow, now you guys are complaining about Gordon getting excited. LOL, you guys really don't like this movie. :funny:

But I guess I understand. :cwink:
 
Ah well, Gordon acting all excited wasn't all that out of character. I felt that the man had something going on for weapons and he had probably never been able to shoot such a big gun.

But Scarecrow... unredeemable.
 
Re: the last post, lol, so we have Scarecrow 'screaming like a girl' and now Gordon is 'giddy as a schoolgirl', lol, I don't know what it is about this third act and guys acting like girls with you guys, I don't know what any girls think of this 'Glen or Glenda-ish' 3rd act, but I imagine they are quite pleased that so many guys are in touch with their feminine side when under pressure.
I am laughing at that Gordon reaction now, when before I never really did.

Yeah it was one of those things that I never really noticed too much until further viewings, like what the ****? Lol, actually in the movies I was pretty pumped, I was just happy Batman was being treated with respect. Now however, I get to the 3rd act and I'm like "ugh"

I guess to me, it seemed almost like they decided to tack alot of those things on to make sure the movie was at least somewhat light. IMO, 2/3 of BB was almost as dark, if not moreso, than TDK.

After that initial success though, they had a whole lot more rope to keep things a lot more heavy in TDK. Now I think he has all the room in the world to do whatever he wants for this next film
 
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I love the third act. I love the feeling of all hell breaking loose. It really felt like a modern Batman comic, like Knightfall and No Man's Land.

Yes, the "pressure's gonna blow" dudes are annoying, but forgivable.

The moment when Loeb says "There's no one left to send in" just for the Batmobile to fly into frame behind him...that is one of the best, pure cinema, old-fashioned fist-pumping moments ever. I cheered, heh.

I thought it all had a great energy. The whole thing is pretty much embodied by the runaway train itself - it's hurtling towards the finish line at breakneck speed. The third act of TDK is much more deliberate, with it's various starts and stops, and it's great in its own right. But nothing got my blood pumping better than Batman grappling up and smashing through the window of the speeding train, and the ensuing tussle. That determined stare of Bats', punctuated with Ra's "You will never learn" is the single best representation of Batman's undying human spirit and force of will.

Damn, I gotta watch Begins now. Haha.
 
Just watched Begins a sec ago, and I got to say that the third act holds up much better than I remember. Pete worded it well, the whole hell breaking loose and train scene is so much like a classic comic moment.

Also, Ra's is great, Liam Neeson played him to perfection. I think the train fight while it could've been shot better was still a peak of the film just because of the acting and dialogue between them. I never understand why people think Begins Ra's is bland, because he comes across as such a compelling villain to me and very different for a Batman film with the whole well intentioned part.
 
I never understand why people think Begins Ra's is bland

What?

People think Ra's in Begins was bland? He was anything but. Ok, they did strip him of the whole Lazarus pit thing, Talia etc, but he was still awesome.

One of my complaints about Begins is that there wasn't enough of Neeson's Ra's in it. He was a joy to watch, and chewed the scenery every time he was on.

"If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart".
 
What?

People think Ra's in Begins was bland? He was anything but. Ok, they did strip him of the whole Lazarus pit thing, Talia etc, but he was still awesome.

One of my complaints about Begins is that there wasn't enough of Neeson's Ra's in it. He was a joy to watch, and chewed the scenery every time he was on.

"If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart".
Yup, and I'll agree with you, but also add, that I think Nolan can't really juggle multiple villains on screen properly. I agree, I would have loved to see more of Ra's, but for the most part, he was alright, but Scarecrow was so underwhelming to me. I wanted to see more of him, and I feel like they barely used him at all. The same thing with Two-Face in TDK, in that, I felt they barely used him. :csad:
 
Also, Ra's is great, Liam Neeson played him to perfection. I think the train fight while it could've been shot better was still a peak of the film just because of the acting and dialogue between them. I never understand why people think Begins Ra's is bland, because he comes across as such a compelling villain to me and very different for a Batman film with the whole well intentioned part.

I hope this isn't true, but I do know he didn't receive the praise I think he deserved. To me, his acting was just as good as Ledger's, just with very different characters. The Joker is so over the top that he commands the attention in a very loud way. But Liam's Ras was just as excellent.

I think it maybe had something to do with the fact Liam has played that kind of fatherly, teacher type of role a couple of times before, but I thought he was just remarkable. Favorite amongst his scenes has to be the talk he shared with Bruce about his wife. He does a great job of looking just slightly vulnerable and showing pain for the quickest of moments, before giving Bruce this line with the look of underlying controlled determination Batman would later adapt:

"There are those without decency who must be fought without hesitation, without pity."

Now that's fantastic stuff!!
 
One of my complaints about Begins is that there wasn't enough of Neeson's Ra's in it. He was a joy to watch, and chewed the scenery every time he was on.

"If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart".

I actually think this is why he kind of flew under the radar, because he didn't chew the scenery as so many over the top Batman villains had before. His interpretation was very true to who Ras is, and because of that, the role was very understated in it's execution, with really no outrageous acting anywhere, which was absolutely the right way to play it.

That quote you used in your post illustrated their weird relationship. This is a man who can walk around and hold a conversation seconds before burning Bruce's mansion down and leaving him for dead, and making it believable for him to do it. It was genius.

Yup, and I'll agree with you, but also add, that I think Nolan can't really juggle multiple villains on screen properly. I agree, I would have loved to see more of Ra's, but for the most part, he was alright, but Scarecrow was so underwhelming to me. I wanted to see more of him, and I feel like they barely used him at all. The same thing with Two-Face in TDK, in that, I felt they barely used him. :csad:

I actually think handling multiple villains is one of Nolan's biggest triumphs, because they're used to serve the story, and not vice versa. I can't honestly think of how to change anything around to allow more time for the Scarecrow or Two-Face that would have made sense in their respective films. Now I will say that I think he should have left Harvey alive, but beyond that, I can't see where everything didn't fit almost perfectly.

Crane was more of a renegade outsider to the mob who was useful for a time before he started doing his own weird things. Once Batman caught up to him with an antidote, what else could he do? His fingerprints still are all over the movie, and it's his ability to weaponize the toxin that even allowed for the climax. If we're talking a grounded hyper-reality which Nolan was going for, than it's completely legitimate that Crane would be a pawn for Ras, someone with aspirations for world "cleansing" and a means to accomplish it. It's not like Ras would tolerate Crane in any other capacity anyway, he became a criminal, something Ras doesn't fashion himself as, and something he doesn't tolerate.

Dent of TDK isn't the same as the one from the comics in the sense that, he seemed to only be vengeful towards those he felt responsible for Rachel. It's not like he was after a life of crime, like he told Gordon "you think I want to escape?! There is no escape from this!" He was fine with killing himself right then and there if the coin had told him to do so, and he wasn't exactly worried about coming out of there alive afterwards either. In that context, I think he was handled the correct way, although it would be interesting to see what would happen if the public had found out about him.
 
What?

People think Ra's in Begins was bland? He was anything but. Ok, they did strip him of the whole Lazarus pit thing, Talia etc, but he was still awesome.
Exactly, but I've heard people on this forum and others call him some "bland ninja" character. Heck, they even included a version of the "immortality" for the fans, and we didn't see him die so people could go either way on the issue.

It's a really powerful performance, especially in Wayne Manor. Honestly its the only time I've seen an actor both chew the hell out of the scenery and still somehow make the scene very personal and emotional.

The casting for the Batman films has been genius really, Liam Neeson as a villain, Gary Oldman as a hero cop, Heath Ledger of all people as the Joker. Heck, I even think Maggie helped salvage a lot of Rachel's character.
 
I actually think this is why he kind of flew under the radar, because he didn't chew the scenery as so many over the top Batman villains had before. His interpretation was very true to who Ras is, and because of that, the role was very understated in it's execution, with really no outrageous acting anywhere, which was absolutely the right way to play it.

Well, comic book Ra's is more into preserving the ecological balance of the planet, not fighting for justice like Ra's was in Begins. Again, it wasn't a change that bothered me because it worked in the context of the theme in the movie.

But the way Neeson played the role was very much in tune with Ra's' persona. Ra's himself doesn't have as colorful a personality as Batman's more psychotic enemies. Not to mention he's not as visually striking.
 
Well, comic book Ra's is more into preserving the ecological balance of the planet, not fighting for justice like Ra's was in Begins. Again, it wasn't a change that bothered me because it worked in the context of the theme in the movie.
The eco reason behind comic Ra's never sat well with me, it was a pretty poor motive for an otherwise awesome villain.

Like the glidecape, I think the anti-crime motive of Ra's in the film was an aspect better than the comics, it not only increases the similarities between Bruce and Ra's but also cements him further as a possible father figure and Brcue an heir by having him with similar goals taken too far.
 
I love the third act. I love the feeling of all hell breaking loose. It really felt like a modern Batman comic, like Knightfall and No Man's Land.

Agreed. I remember thinking, "Gotham just hit rock bottom". The 3rd act did feel rushed, but I think the pacing was meant to keep you at the edge of your seat when all hell was breaking loose.
 
Agreed. I remember thinking, "Gotham just hit rock bottom". The 3rd act did feel rushed, but I think the pacing was meant to keep you at the edge of your seat when all hell was breaking loose.

It kept me at the edge of not caring for what was going on.
 
Thank's for information.I think the movie is strong and consistent all the way through, until they get to the final sequence with the micro-wave emitter being released.

......mmmmkay. So you didn't like the third act, is that what you're saying?

I'm assuming English is not your first language?
 
Gordon acting like a giddy school girl when he finally shoots the pillars on the bridge

What normal person wouldn't act like that due to shooting on that badass indestructible Batmobile??? :funny:

Oh wow, now you guys are complaining about Gordon getting excited. LOL, you guys really don't like this movie. :funny:

Yeah, tell me about it... :funny:

Scarecrow screaming like a schoolgirl??? Gordon getting giddy like a schoolgirl??? :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

Weak reasons for criticism... I mean, what normal person does not scream like that after getting tazered and what normal person wouldn't get excited on the Batmobile??? :funny:
 
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They're valid criticisms. Both Gordon and Scarecrow did look silly in those scenes. As for the 3rd act itself, it was mediocre. The fight on the train with Ra's should have been better if not for that flippin shaky camera.
 

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