Batman Begins Question about Earl in Batman Begins.

[TomPiltoff]

Not for me cause thats what every company's CEO in the world does.

And so what are you saying? That because it's realistic it's a morally good action?

First of all, hes not after making a profit for himself but for the company, which is what every board and CEO does.

He works for the company. What's good for the company is good for his bank account.

Not at all. Life's not a fairy tale, people are CEOs to make money for the company and open up in markets that profit the company. If thats evil than capitalism is evil.

Yes, in many ways capitalism is evil. If your company can save a bunch of money by employing children in sweatshops, does that cease being a morally evil action just because it's what's good monetarily?

And knowing how Lucius is, it would be enough to explain to Lucius that first of all going to media telling that they lost a big weapon would be just not right

First of all, Lucius isn't some little kid willing to be lectured to by the guy who demoted him.

Secondly, "just not right" how? The company lost a potentially deadly weapon. A very good argument could be made not to keep that a secret.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Capitalism isnt evil, at least not for me, and what Earl did is what every CEO in the world does,. And yes, whats good for the company is also good for individual pockets, but thats how it is in real life. It would be evil if he would be gaining profit doing something that harms the company, instead he simply finds the market that can be profitable for the company. And again, its not like theyre selling drugs or even selling guns to streets. Theyre manufacturing weapons for US military.

As for Lucius, I dont think hes the type that would go to media and announce to everyone that a prototype weapon was stolen. And he didnt. Not even when he was fired

 

[TomPiltoff]

Capitalism isnt evil, at least not for me

Then you aren't paying enough attention. Look at every cancer stricken mother who can't get health insurance because she isn't profitable as an example of the joys of capitalism.

and what Earl did is what every CEO in the world does,. And yes, whats good for the company is also good for individual pockets, but thats how it is in real life.

Nobody is arguing that he or the situation isn't realistic. Just saying 'this is how it is in real life' does nothing for the argument of whether or not he's an immoral character.

Yes, that is how CEO's act. And that's a shame.

It would be evil if he would be gaining profit doing something that harms the company, instead he simply finds the market that can be profitable for the company.

If we're going to continue this discussion, I'll ask that you not make me repeat myself. I said Earle isn't EVIL. He just represents corruption in Wayne's company. Batman has to deal with the crooked cops in Gotham, Bruce has to deal with those within his company who'd go against the original intent of his father and manufacture weapons.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Earl is just doing what every CEO is suppose to be doing, thats his job, I dont see him as a bad guy because of that. Dick Jones from Robocop was a bad guy company man, not Earl

 

[TomPiltoff]

Earl is just doing what every CEO is suppose to be doing, thats his job, I dont see him as a bad guy because of that.

OK that's your opinion and I'm not going to try and argue it, but surely the fact that Earle is presented in the movie as the man who wants to take the company in a direction Thomas Wayne wouldn't have been morally comfortable with suggests he isn't being written as a hero.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Either way it wasnt anything that bothered me or such, it was something I definitely didnt see coming

 

[noonelovesrobin]

Capitalism isnt evil, at least not for me, and what Earl did is what every CEO in the world does,. And yes, whats good for the company is also good for individual pockets, but thats how it is in real life. It would be evil if he would be gaining profit doing something that harms the company, instead he simply finds the market that can be profitable for the company. And again, its not like theyre selling drugs or even selling guns to streets. Theyre manufacturing weapons for US military.

As for Lucius, I dont think hes the type that would go to media and announce to everyone that a prototype weapon was stolen. And he didnt. Not even when he was fired

He wanted to take control from Wayne's company.Sent Fox to garbage department.Forced board members to make company public.Declared Bruce dead. Being all nice to bruce was fake until going public, after he was only Wayne remains.

Reason why he fired Fox..because he has been already disliked him.And when he figured out there is an illegal product and its missing, he simply fired him to save his ass.

 

[GothamAlleys]

He wanted to take control from Wayne's company.

I dont see any evidence of that. He was already CEO, the reason he threw Lucius out of the board is because they seemed to always disagree and have problems

Sent Fox to garbage department.

Fox is apparently a scientific/designing genius, its an interesting coincidence that Lucius got just the "garbage" that he was very much into and that was his field

Forced board members to make company public

He didnt force them in any way. CEO's function from wiki: The CEO advises the board of directors, motivates employees, and drives change within the organization and thats what Earl did. He gained nothing from it more than the others would, he took the company public to make it more profitable and meaningful in stocks

Declared Bruce dead

Guy suddenly dissapeared and was gone 10 yesr. 10 years after dissapearing without a trace. As a responsible manager, it was almost mandatory to do whats necessary especially when the guy was holding certain position in the company holding things with his absence

Being all nice to bruce was fake until going public, after he was only Wayne remains.

He was never mean to Bruce, not until he replaced him with Lucius

Reason why he fired Fox..because he has been already disliked him

And that part si fine unlike...

And when he figured out there is an illegal product and its missing, he simply fired him to save his ass.

This one. I dont see how firing him would save Earl's ass. It would only alienate Lucius and make him more of an enemy, give him impetus to spread the word about the emitter

 

[noonelovesrobin]

I dont see any evidence of that. He was already CEO, the reason he threw Lucius out of the board is because they seemed to always disagree and have problems
Earl was CEO but Bruce was still owner.After all he was only Wayne alive.


Fox is apparently a scientific/designing genius, its an interesting coincidence that Lucius got just the "garbage" that he was very much into and that was his field
Indeed, but it was way off from board.Dead End for Fox as Earl said.


He didnt force them in any way. CEO's function from wiki: The CEO advises the board of directors, motivates employees, and drives change within the organization and thats what Earl did. He gained nothing from it more than the others would, he took the company public to make it more profitable and meaningful in stocks
He was impatient to make it public when one board member said what would Thomas Wayne do


Guy suddenly dissapeared and was gone 10 yesr. 10 years after dissapearing without a trace. As a responsible manager, it was almost mandatory to do whats necessary especially when the guy was holding certain position in the company holding things with his absence
It doesn't matter.It's not his responsibility to declare him dead.He was already CEO without Bruce.Also Bruce didn't have position in company before coming back to Gotham.


He was never mean to Bruce, not until he replaced him with Lucius
He couldn't be mean to Bruce since he is the owner of company.


And that part si fine unlike...



This one. I dont see how firing him would save Earl's ass. It would only alienate Lucius and make him more of an enemy, give him impetus to spread the word about the emitter
Noone would believe Fox without datas Earl ordered to erase,after fired.

I don't know, i think it was clear that Earle was trying taking full control of Bruce Wayne's company.From begining he said "when you grow up your company will wait you" then he declared Bruce dead and tried to make company public.The man tried to take power of Bruce's on company since his parents are dead.

Also produced illegal weapons.

He was a greedy,sneaky CEO.I have never seen him as good guy since Alfred mentioned declaring Bruce dead was Earle's idea.

 

[Schlosser85]

I assumed Earle was going "uh oh" about Wayne Enterprises losing an experimental, possibly illegal weapon (Fox asks "isn't that illegal?" about experiments with it dispersing toxins into the air) and wanted to delete all the evidence that they'd ever developed it in the first place to cover the company's ass. He wasn't in league with Ra's Al Ghul, he was a corporate CEO doing damage control because he lost a weapon he might not have even been supposed to have in the first place.

And he fired Fox because Fox asked too many questions about it ("isn't that illegal?" "did you lose one?"). Although, as CinemaSins points out, good luck getting Fox to deliver all that material to your desk when you've already told him you're firing him.

And as for the people saying Earle being "bad" came out of nowhere, he's obviously set up as a negative character. He's going against Thomas Wayne's ideals and values by making heavy arms manufacturing a cornerstone of Wayne Enterprises, and it's mentioned he let the cheap public transportation system Thomas and Lucius built to help the less fortunate "go to rot", as Lucius puts it, because he doesn't care about philanthropy and helping the less fortunate which Thomas wanted the company to focus on, he cares about making as much money as possible.

He dumped Thomas' old friend and trusted man Lucius in a "dead end" basement where he can fiddle with his toys that will never actually be developed, to get him out of hair, and he gives Bruce the brush-off too.

So he's not necessarily really a "villain", but he's definitely not someone we're meant to view in a positive light.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Although, as CinemaSins points out, good luck getting Fox to deliver all that material to your desk when you've already told him you're firing him.

To be fair, he only fired him AFTER he was "asking too many questions about it". He probably didn't intend to go down Applied Sciences to fire Fox (at least not on that day), but he clearly wanted to contain the situation.