Batman Begins Why do people dislike the 3rd act so much?

[Cobblepot]

I think your missing the gist of my original post. When I say "vibe" I'm not just talking about the plot itself, but also the execution. All the cheese they pretty much avoided the entire movie came rearing it's head in that final climax.

"Can you drive stick?"

"He'y, nice ride!"

"It's gonna blow!!"

Gordon acting like a giddy school girl when he finally shoots the pillars on the bridge, just the whole sequence seemed like a whole different movie in comparison to what came before. TDK kept a steady tone throughout, while still having light moments here and there. Like I said in my first post, the ending in that wasn't any less ridiculous, it was just handled better IMO

Couldn't agree more, and don't forget the 2ton Batmobile driving on rooftops...

 

[Figs]

Agreed. I remember thinking, "Gotham just hit rock bottom". The 3rd act did feel rushed, but I think the pacing was meant to keep you at the edge of your seat when all hell was breaking loose.

Same here, seeing all the mental patients escape put a smile on my face. The things I would have done differently with the third act was take out the bum "nice ride", make the water tower guy shut up or just keep those scenes out of the film entirely. Instead of having Gordon driving the Tumbler, have Batman program it to drive there on it's own which we know it can do, from past films to the parking garage scene in TDK. Have Batman take out Scarecrow instead of Rachel and it would have been nice to have had the fight between Batman and Ras start or end on the roof of the train like in one of the earlier drafts.

I hope Nolan in the third film puts in more freaks because ever since I saw all the homicidal maniacs escape in BB I was hoping it would be the eventual cause of freaks doing crimes in Gotham, the villians from the comics at least. If he doesn't and just has the third film's villians come from somewhere else or out of nowhere I'll be just a tad bit disappointed that he didn't link the events. It just seemed like a perfect setup for villians with mental disorders like Firefly(pyro)and others like The Mad Hatter or even Riddler to start causing problems.

Couldn't agree more, and don't forget the 2ton Batmobile driving on rooftops...

No way in hell did that vehicle way 2 tons. Not to mention those weren't the rooftops of average homes he was driving on but full sized buildings which are pretty damn sturdy. Also don't forget the fact that you're watching a fictional movie based on a fictional character, that wasn't all that farfetched anyways.

 

[Anita18]

I think BB's third act was weak because the tone veered way off from what we were shown before. It was playing itself pretty seriously, until "hey, whaddya know the bunch of ninjas who trained me are back and they've been destroying civilizations for eons and this time they're gonna do Gotham in with a microwave emitter! I've got to stop them!" It was very out there tonally, like it belonged to a different movie. Not to mention the extremely cliche dialogue and situations.

Third acts can be tricky. Even I feel that Pixar, where story is supposedly king, has been losing their touch lately because of their weak third acts. TDK's third act was not wholly original, but it was treated unformulaically in terms of the filming and editing, so it all felt new when we watched it. It didn't feel like I was watching something I had seen before. It felt very immediate.

Also, even though Joker's last plan is out there, they'd been properly building up to it tonally so it felt like a pretty legitimate climax to the rest of the movie.

 

[Figs]

I think BB's third act was weak because the tone veered way off from what we were shown before. It was playing itself pretty seriously, until "hey, whaddya know the bunch of ninjas who trained me are back and they've been destroying civilizations for eons and this time they're gonna do Gotham in with a microwave emitter! I've got to stop them!" It was very out there tonally, like it belonged to a different movie. Not to mention the extremely cliche dialogue and situations.

Well you have to remember that during Bruce's last test with the League of Ninjas they basically told him they wanted him to lead the attack to destroy Gotham and in between those events and the third act, Ras was most likely still recovering and regrouping the League of Ninjas back up after Bruce wrecked shop. t:

Third acts can be tricky. Even I feel that Pixar, where story is supposedly king, has been losing their touch lately because of their weak third acts. TDK's third act was not wholly original, but it was treated unformulaically in terms of the filming and editing, so it all felt new when we watched it. It didn't feel like I was watching something I had seen before. It felt very immediate.

Also, even though Joker's last plan is out there, they'd been properly building up to it tonally so it felt like a pretty legitimate climax to the rest of the movie.

Yeah. I especially love how in the jail scene Joker in a round about way lets Batman know he's going to test the morals of Gotham's citizens at the end.

"See, their morals, their code, it’s a bad joke. They’re dropped at the first sign of trouble. They’re only as good as the world allows them to be. You’ll see, when the chips are down these civilized people will eat each other."

 

[Travesty]

I think BB's third act was weak because the tone veered way off from what we were shown before. It was playing itself pretty seriously, until "hey, whaddya know the bunch of ninjas who trained me are back and they've been destroying civilizations for eons and this time they're gonna do Gotham in with a microwave emitter! I've got to stop them!" It was very out there tonally, like it belonged to a different movie. Not to mention the extremely cliche dialogue and situations.

Out there? The League of Shadows was explained in the very beginning of the movie, and we knew of a missing microwave emitter since the middle. I don't see how it "veered" from anything, when the beginning of Begins didn't even show us who Batman was. Was the microwave emitter any "less serious" then the sonar device that Batman used in his boot to attract THOUSANDS of bats to him, or The Tumbler that weighs a few tons ridding on roof tops, or a device that can send electrodes to a cape, so it can turn into a glider? The whole movie wasn't "serious" to begin with. Now, I can't speak for the dialogue, as that's just your opinion, but I can't see how you're even trying to say the movie wasn't serious from the start, or that it veered "tonally". The entire movie doesn't even really pick up until Bruce dawns the cap, and after that, it's Batman investigating what going on in Gotham. Unless you don't like how Nolan had a "twist" at the end, and it was Ducard who was actually Ra's, but again, the only reason why that was kept secret, was to have a twist.

Also, even though Joker's last plan is out there, they'd been properly building up to it tonally so it felt like a pretty legitimate climax to the rest of the movie.

And just like in Begins, Ra's/Ducard told Bruce at the begging that he was going to go to Gotham with The League of Shadows, and we also saw a Microwave emitter being stolen. They built up that Gotham was in trouble, and that "he"(Ra's) was coming to Gotham, and was most likely going to use that device to trigger the fear toxin, which is why one of the scientist said the toxin can only induce it's effects through the lungs.

Everything was laid out right in front of you, it was just kept secret as to who was going to be coming to Gotham, and using the microwave emitter for something against Gotham.

 

[returntovoid]

They're valid criticisms.

That's debatable/opinionated.

Both Gordon and Scarecrow did look silly in those scenes.

I don't think they looked silly at all and Scarecrow was always a wimp without his fear gas.

As for the 3rd act itself, it was mediocre.

Mediocre??? It kept me more interested/on the edge of my seat than the dragging 3rd act of TDK.

The fight on the train with Ra's should have been better if not for that flippin shaky camera.

The fights in TDK may be more clearer but I found the fights in Batman Begins more exciting and there was a kinetic energy in them that the overly choreographed fights in TDK lacked.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

I think the whole movie suffers but the third act is very weak.

The micro emitter doesn't work for the all the reasons mentioned before, how can it evapourate every drop of water in the pipes but none in the human body? etc. But the posioning of the water supply is just dumb in my opinion. Someone would have noticed it happening, water turns to gas everyday. Ever boil a kettle, took a shower? That's water turing to gas, and that's not even counting the, you know, sun.

But there are a lot of little stupid things too. Such a Alfred sneaking up on and taking out TWO NINJAS, with ease. These guys are the threat to the hero, but an old man can beat up two of them in seconds. It's never explained why Batman even fights Ra, he didn't need to, he could just as easily have blown the bridge up by himself.

But the biggest problem is that Ra's scheme doesn't make sense. It's...

1] Poison Gotham Water Supply
2] Gotham tears itself apart
3]?????
4} The end of the American Empire

 

[Travesty]

I think the whole movie suffers but the third act is very weak.

The micro emitter doesn't work for the all the reasons mentioned before, how can it evapourate every drop of water in the pipes but none in the human body? etc. But the posioning of the water supply is just dumb in my opinion. Someone would have noticed it happening, water turns to gas everyday. Ever boil a kettle, took a shower? That's water turing to gas, and that's not even counting the, you know, sun.

That's why they tell us that it's a focused microwave emitters. Why does everybody always miss that part? Plus, watch the bonus material from TDK, they say that the military is using focused microwave emitters against different adversaries. So, it's actually being used by military personnel.

But there are a lot of little stupid things too. Such a Alfred sneaking up on and taking out TWO NINJAS, with ease. These guys are the threat to the hero, but an old man can beat up two of them in seconds. It's never explained why Batman even fights Ra, he didn't need to, he could just as easily have blown the bridge up by himself.

These are just stupid nitpickings for the sake of it. I could do the same to TDK, or any Bat-flick for the matter, with a TON of little nitpicking things. How did Batman not shoot Joker in B89, when his target was right on him? How did The Joker take out the Batwing in one shot with his pistol? Why did Batman fight Joker in TDK, when there are snipers on him, ready to shoot. Why didn't the snipers just take The Joker out immediately, I mean, he's a cop killing terrorist? How does The Joker get thousands of barrels of gasoline on a boat with nobody noticing? How was The Joker able to blow everybody up in the station, besides him and Lau? Ummmm, I don't know?

But the biggest problem is that Ra's scheme doesn't make sense. It's...

1] Poison Gotham Water Supply
2] Gotham tears itself apart
3]?????
4} The end of the American Empire

The scheme did make sense. Sure, it's not that believable, because it's a movie, but it does make sense. Ras already explained to Bruce that the point to the League of Shadows was to even everything out. So, if some kind of society is getting to big, they have to tear a few notches into it. And it's not the "end of the American Empire", it's the end of Gotham, which is a fictional place to begin with. Batman is around to save GOTHAM, not America.

 

[Anita18]

Out there? The League of Shadows was explained in the very beginning of the movie, and we knew of a missing microwave emitter since the middle. I don't see how it "veered" from anything, when the beginning of Begins didn't even show us who Batman was. Was the microwave emitter any "less serious" then the sonar device that Batman used in his boot to attract THOUSANDS of bats to him, or The Tumbler that weighs a few tons ridding on roof tops, or a device that can send electrodes to a cape, so it can turn into a glider? The whole movie wasn't "serious" to begin with. Now, I can't speak for the dialogue, as that's just your opinion, but I can't see how you're even trying to say the movie wasn't serious from the start, or that it veered "tonally". The entire movie doesn't even really pick up until Bruce dawns the cap, and after that, it's Batman investigating what going on in Gotham. Unless you don't like how Nolan had a "twist" at the end, and it was Ducard who was actually Ra's, but again, the only reason why that was kept secret, was to have a twist.


And just like in Begins, Ra's/Ducard told Bruce at the begging that he was going to go to Gotham with The League of Shadows, and we also saw a Microwave emitter being stolen. They built up that Gotham was in trouble, and that "he"(Ra's) was coming to Gotham, and was most likely going to use that device to trigger the fear toxin, which is why one of the scientist said the toxin can only induce it's effects through the lungs.

Everything was laid out right in front of you, it was just kept secret as to who was going to be coming to Gotham, and using the microwave emitter for something against Gotham.

I meant the the scope of the movie's conflict was drastically expanded without any warning. Batman had been going after the mob, okay, and all of a sudden it turns into this city-wide peril without any warning. And yes, we were given clues throughout the film, but certainly not to the scope of the whole thing.

In TDK, Joker's plans gradually expanded until it was feasible that he could clear out the entire city and get two fully loaded ferries into the harbor for him to play with. The sonar was definitely a little out there (the whole concept of the microwave emitter never bothered me, just how it was used), but Joker's plan was not, at that point of the movie.

But this is all personal opinion as to how you interpret how it goes with the rest of the movie. Lots of people who didn't like TDK thought it was scattershot - on the contrary, I marvel at how intricately it came together despite its superficial scattershottedness.

 

[Brother Jack]

That's debatable/opinionated.

Not really. Whether or not you agree with them doesn't matter, they are valid points.

The fights in TDK may be more clearer but I found the fights in Batman Begins more exciting and there was a kinetic energy in them that the overly choreographed fights in TDK lacked.

Whatever you say, sport. t:

 

[Jack O Lantern]

That's why they tell us that it's a focused microwave emitters. Why does everybody always miss that part? Plus, watch the bonus material from TDK, they say that the military is using focused microwave emitters against different adversaries. So, it's actually being used by military personnel.

Focused on what?

I'm shouldn't need to watch bonus material from this movie let alone another movie to be told.

These are just stupid nitpickings for the sake of it. I could do the same to TDK, or any Bat-flick for the matter, with a TON of little nitpicking things. How did Batman not shoot Joker in B89, when his target was right on him? How did The Joker take out the Batwing in one shot with his pistol?

Because it's a targeting system used to shoot down planes not something as small as a human body. Because it was a masive pistol that shot more than a standard bullet.

Why did Batman fight Joker in TDK, when there are snipers on him, ready to shoot. Why didn't the snipers just take The Joker out immediately, I mean, he's a cop killing terrorist?

Because he wants to prove that not everybodies first reaction is to kill.

How does The Joker get thousands of barrels of gasoline on a boat with nobody noticing? How was The Joker able to blow everybody up in the station, besides him and Lau? Ummmm, I don't know?

Yeah, those are massive holes in The Dark Knight. Some of the reasons that's not great.

The scheme did make sense. Sure, it's not that believable, because it's a movie, but it does make sense. Ras already explained to Bruce that the point to the League of Shadows was to even everything out. So, if some kind of society is getting to big, they have to tear a few notches into it. And it's not the "end of the American Empire", it's the end of Gotham, which is a fictional place to begin with. Batman is around to save GOTHAM, not America.

He said that the league of shadows show up to stop any civilization from becoming to currupt. I have a hard time believeing that Gotham can be considered to have it's own civilization.

 

[Travesty]

Focused on what?

I'm shouldn't need to watch bonus material from this movie let alone another movie to be told.

Hehe, no, it said it was focused in Begins. I was just saying, the extra features in TDK, talk about how the military is actually using the technology, but it was told to us quit blatantly in Begins, that it was a focused microwave beam.

It's "focused", in that the beam is shot out in a straight direction, so that people who use it, aren't microwaved.

 

[El Payaso]

Hehe, no, it said it was focused in Begins. I was just saying, the extra features in TDK, talk about how the military is actually using the technology, but it was told to us quit blatantly in Begins, that it was a focused microwave beam.

It's "focused", in that the beam is shot out in a straight direction, so that people who use it, aren't microwaved.

It was focused in what direction exactly? As far as I know the whole city was irradiated.

 

[Travesty]

It was focused in what direction exactly? As far as I know the whole city was irradiated.

Huh? It was focused on the waterline, which was where the monorail went over. The whole city didn't get "radiated" with the microwave, just the waterline, which then burst, and the gas leaked throughout the city. That's why you saw sewers burst up, when the monorail was going over them, as Batman was hanging on to the train. If it irradiated the entire city, there would be no point of getting on the monorail, as the main water line would have burst regardless of where they were at.

Could this possibly work in real life? I doubt it to the extent of how it was portrayed, but microwave emitters are real. What's more far fetched, is how Batman can shoot electrodes into the cape, turning it into a glider. That technology doesn't even exist, other then theoretically. That, and Batman's Bat-sonar/bat-whistle, which attracts thousands upon thousands of bats towards his location, like how it was portrayed in Year One, and the Arkham escape scene. I don't think that tech exists.

 

[El Payaso]

Huh? It was focused on the waterline, which was where the monorail went over. The whole city didn't get "radiated", just the waterline, which then burst, and the gas leaked throughout the city. That's why you saw sewers burst up, when the monorail was going over them, as Batman was hanging on to the train. If it irradiated the entire city, there would be no point of getting on the monorail, as the main water line would have burst regardless of where they were at.

I seem to remember there were people between the monorail and the waterline.

Could this possibly work in real life? I doubt it to the extent of how it was portrayed, but microwave emitters are real. What's more far fetched, is how Batman can shoot electrodes into the cape, turning it into a glider. That technology doesn't even exist, other then theoretically. That, and Batman's Bat-sonar/bat-whistle, which attracts thousands upon thousands of bats towards his location, like how it was portrayed in Year One, and the Arkham escape scene. I don't think that tech exists.

I won't ever find the link but one SHH poster once linked us to a site that talked seriously about memory fabric. I don't think it worked at Batman movies' level but the technology is there already.

And with bats, a sonar doesn't sound that incredible. They can interfere with dogs' range of hearing.

Now if electricity could make parts of the memory fabric rigid and some others not, or if the sonar could attract some bats and some others not, then I'd be having a problem buying it.

 

[Travesty]

I seem to remember there were people between the monorail and the waterline.

I won't ever find the link but one SHH poster once linked us to a site that talked seriously about memory fabric. I don't think it worked at Batman movies' level but the technology is there already.

Yeah, so what's the point of saying a microwave emitter is silly, if the military is actually using it, compared to memory fabric, that doesn't even work close to the same way that it does in these Bat-movies? The memory cloth that is used in the cape, isn't even real yet. There are scientist who are working on it, and haven't come anywhere close to how it's portrayed in BB/TDK. The tech is called "magneto-rheological-fluids", which is a fluid, that when a electromagnetic current goes through it, it get's harder/stiff. Although, the tech doesn't work on the same scale, which is said to not be impossible, it's just something that they haven't figured out how to do yet.

Now if electricity could make parts of the memory fabric rigid and some others not, or if the sonar could attract some bats and some others not, then I'd be having a problem buying it.

So again, why are you having a problem with a microwave emitter, when the military is using focused microwave emitters? Nothing works in real life, to how it does in the movie. Of course it's going to be exaggerated, because it's fictional. I just don't see why you're still hung up on the microwave emitter, when you basically just said, if it worked at all, then you wouldn't have a hard time buying it.


And as far as the "bat-whistle" goes, I don't think they have something for that. I've looked all over, but can't find anything. It may be possible, I just haven't found anything on it, yet.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Wait... people are complaining about the Tumbler driving on rooftops? And Scarecrow screaming in agony after being tasered... in the frigging face? And Gordon being excited about driving a tank that can jump?

Get the **** outta here... go watch some oscar bait period drama or something. I like my comic book films to be y'know, thrilling. Not limited by a over inflated sense of importance and realism.

And the fights in BB were better than in TDK. They actually looked like real fights, instead of BLATANTLY choreographed Power Ranger esque boo****.

 

[The Joker]

I notice a lot of reviewers picked out the third act as the weakest element. There's a nice mix of reasons in these various reviews. I don't entirely agree with all of them, but there's some nice diversity here:

The car chases and ass-whoopings turn out to be the least interesting part of the film—probably because they’re staged with no consideration for momentum or spatial logic. The first two acts of Batman Begins are rock solid, but the third act peters out due to Nolan’s aversion to climaxes.

Link: http://www.thefilmpalace.com/batman_begins.htm

Batman not only spends the last act of the film only reacting, he doesn't even get a chance to crack the case. Lucius Fox, the overly good WayneTech employee, does that for him. It's a weird moment, watching Fox put two and two together and feed it to Bruce Wayne. It would make a cool 8 page back-up story in a Batman Annual (not everyone can be 'on' every day would be sort of the theme of that one) but as part of the origin of Batman it's jarring.

I can hear the jeers from the peanut gallery. 'It's Batman's first year! He's still learning!' you're saying. Well, sure, except for the fact that the movie shows Batman out for the first time and he's a well oiled fighting machine. He darts in and out of shadows, taking out crooks like a ghost, and eventually crippling Gotham's main crime family. His first time out. This is a Batman at the top of his game, not a Batman learning the ropes.

Link: http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/3347/1/REVIEW-BATMAN-BEGINS/Page1.html


This one actually accused the third act of being totally against the style Nolan established in the movie:

It’s the last third of “Batman Begins” that is its weakest, especially when Ra’s Al Ghul, thought dead, resurfaces with a plan to destroy all of Gotham City for — well, it’s a bit silly, and belongs in a comic book, or at least in a Schumacher or Burton “Batman”. In a Nolan “Batman” movie, the “out there” idea of Ra’s Al Ghul to “cleanse” Gotham City and start all over again just seems out of place and too, well, comic booky. In a movie that is so determined to be as realistic as possible, the overblown third act, with a citywide disaster in the making, is too much to take in, and it overwhelms much of the grit that Nolan had created up to that point.

Link: http://www.beyondhollywood.com/batman-begins-2005-movie-review/

The bad is that the third act is something of a mess and Wayne’s final scene with the final bad guy involves Batman basically creating a moral loophole for himself that allows him to break the very behavior he swears he stands for. Basically, it’s just like the first Spider-Man film in that what it gets right, it gets perfect, but as it comes down the stretch you see that there’s not a lot of gas left in the tank, and so it falls a bit apart. Or, that is to say, it really does have third act problems, though it’s more that the drug freakout stuff is neat in principle but grows to be wearisome.

Link: http://www.collider.com/dvd/article.asp/aid/8414/cid/3/tcid/3


This one highlighted the fight problem nicely:

My one critique of Christopher Nolan’s direction when it came to Batman Begins was how he choose to shoot the action sequences. Whenever Batman was going to do something really cool (like beat the hell out of the henchmen at the docks), Nolan either choose to have the camera cut away to something else so you only HEAR Batman doing his thing, or committed the heinous sin of shaking the bloody camera around like an German midget having an epileptic seizure to create a fake and artificial sense of “action” or “intensity”. This drove me nuts.

Link: http://themovieblog.com/2008/05/5-ways-iron-man-was-better-than-batman-begins

Wait... people are complaining about the Tumbler driving on rooftops? And Scarecrow screaming in agony after being tasered... in the frigging face? And Gordon being excited about driving a tank that can jump?

Get the **** outta here... go watch some oscar bait period drama or something. I like my comic book films to be y'know, thrilling. Not limited by a over inflated sense of importance and realism.

And the fights in BB were better than in TDK. They actually looked like real fights, instead of BLATANTLY choreographed Power Ranger esque boo****.

Ace, I like you, but this is my thread, and everyone has been civil so far, despite differing opinions, and I'd like to keep it that way. I don't need you coming in here and stirring things up with a holier than thou, hostile attitude, telling people to get the **** out of here, or telling them to go watch something else.

So state your opinions politely, please.

 

[returntovoid]

Wait... people are complaining about the Tumbler driving on rooftops? And Scarecrow screaming in agony after being tasered... in the frigging face? And Gordon being excited about driving a tank that can jump?

Get the **** outta here... go watch some oscar bait period drama or something. I like my comic book films to be y'know, thrilling. Not limited by a over inflated sense of importance and realism.

And the fights in BB were better than in TDK. They actually looked like real fights, instead of BLATANTLY choreographed Power Ranger esque boo****.

Exactly!

Finally someone has agreed with the points I was making in this thread.

The reason why I preferred Batman Begins over TDK is that TDK felt like a over inflated film with a sense of importance and realism.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Joker- I was joking man I didn't literally mean "get the **** outta here!" lol

But seriously. If people have a problem with the tumbler driving on rooftops, or a guy screaming in agony after being shot in the face with a taser, or a excited old man driving a tank that can friggin jump they reeeeally need to remove the bug from their arse and not take things so seriously. It's a ****ing comic book movie at the end of the day.

Yes comic book movies don't have to be just for kids. Yes comic book movies don't have to have silly cliche story lines. But IMO comic book movies HAVE to have an air of fantasy about them.

Especially super hero comic book movies. This is Batman... not frigging 100 Bullets.

But saying all that i do think the microwave emitter was a bit stupid. And the old man going "It's gonna blow!" every 2 minutes did annoy me.

 

[The Joker]

Joker- I was joking man I didn't literally mean "get the **** outta here!" lol

Fair enough. But in future add a smiley or two, please, because it can easily be misconstrued as hostile.

But seriously. If people have a problem with the tumbler driving on rooftops, or a guy screaming in agony after being shot in the face with a taser, or a excited old man driving a tank that can friggin jump they reeeeally need to remove the bug from their arse and not take things so seriously. It's a ****ing comic book movie at the end of the day.

Yes comic book movies don't have to be just for kids. Yes comic book movies don't have to have silly cliche story lines. But IMO comic book movies HAVE to have an air of fantasy about them.

Fantasy has got nothing to do with it. There's nothing fantastical about being tasered in the face, or acting like a giddy school kid driving a car. It was the fact that it made serious characters like Gordon and Scarecrow look silly that bothers people.

The Tumbler on the rooftops, I don't have a problem with that one. Some people just get carried away with the laws of physics being perverted too much.

 

[Brother Jack]

Fantasy has got nothing to do with it. There's nothing fantastical about being tasered in the face, or acting like a giddy school kid driving a car. It was the fact that it made serious characters like Gordon and Scarecrow look silly that bothers people.

The Tumbler on the rooftops, I don't have a problem with that one. Some people just get carried away with the laws of physics being perverted too much.

Exactly! Those character moments have nothing to do with realism or fantasy. I suppose you could argue that they bring some "fun", but I could only see that with Gordon, and even then, it's awfully out of character compared to how he was presented in the rest of the film.

The Tumbler driving on rooftops also has never bothered me. If I can buy memory cloth cape and fear toxin I can certainly buy that.

 

[El Payaso]

Yeah, so what's the point of saying a microwave emitter is silly, if the military is actually using it, compared to memory fabric, that doesn't even work close to the same way that it does in these Bat-movies? The memory cloth that is used in the cape, isn't even real yet. There are scientist who are working on it, and haven't come anywhere close to how it's portrayed in BB/TDK. The tech is called "magneto-rheological-fluids", which is a fluid, that when a electromagnetic current goes through it, it get's harder/stiff. Although, the tech doesn't work on the same scale, which is said to not be impossible, it's just something that they haven't figured out how to do yet.

So again, why are you having a problem with a microwave emitter, when the military is using focused microwave emitters? Nothing works in real life, to how it does in the movie. Of course it's going to be exaggerated, because it's fictional. I just don't see why you're still hung up on the microwave emitter, when you basically just said, if it worked at all, then you wouldn't have a hard time buying it.

I don't have problems accepting a giant microwave emitter. But how did it affect waterlines and not people right above the waterlines? I mean, considering that people were right below the train and over the waterlines.

At least explain it better than using the word "focused." I mean, Nolan couldn't show a thing without explaining the hell out of it and with the ability of this microwave emitter to focus on one thing but not in the other next to it he just relied on the fantasy element.

 

[Travesty]

I don't have problems accepting a giant microwave emitter. But how did it affect waterlines and not people right above the waterlines? I mean, considering that people were right below the train and over the waterlines.

Because the movie is focusing on Batman, not the random citizens of Gotham that may have been microwaved with the emitter. Who says they weren't? Why didn't they explain what happened to the random people right outside of The Tumbler, as it blew up, and turned into the Bat-pod in TDK? Did anybody get killed when Batman shot a missile at a BUNCH of cars, right before he drove through it with the Bat-pod? Did anybody walking in the mall get hit with the Bat-pods machine guns, when he went through the glass doors? How did The Joker kill every cop in front of him, when the blast clearly was from behind The Joker, and only he survived? How was Lau the ONLY survivor in the holding cell, out of everybody who was there? Dude, I don't know, and none of those were explained either.

 

[Figs]

But the biggest problem is that Ra's scheme doesn't make sense. It's...

1] Poison Gotham Water Supply
2] Gotham tears itself apart
3]?????
4} The end of the American Empire

I know Travesty already tackled this but you have to remember that Ras mentions in the film something along the lines of "and watch as the world's greatest city tears itself apart"

His plan was to bring down the largest, well known and corrupt city to keep the balance between good and evil. As he also mentions in Wayne Manor that the League of Ninjas were responsible for the fall of Rome and the burning of London. Just major cities/empires, not the entire world.

Wait... people are complaining about the Tumbler driving on rooftops? And Scarecrow screaming in agony after being tasered... in the frigging face? And Gordon being excited about driving a tank that can jump?

Get the **** outta here... go watch some oscar bait period drama or something. I like my comic book films to be y'know, thrilling. Not limited by a over inflated sense of importance and realism.

And the fights in BB were better than in TDK. They actually looked like real fights, instead of BLATANTLY choreographed Power Ranger esque boo****.

Agreed on all counts!

I always understood that people wanted Nolan to pull the camera back a bit for the fights in BB but always laughed when they complained that they couldn't make out anything...they literally need their eye sight checked out. I would rather have it like that then in TDK where the only good fight was in the night club. My only complaint is they really need to drop that Keysi(or however the hell you spell it) bull **** and use real martial arts. I want to leg sweeps, roundhouse kicks and moves like when Bruce first fought Ras a bit when he enters his home in the mountains.

I also had no problem with Scarecrow crying out like that when he was tazered either. My only problem was that Dawes was the one to defeat him. As for the Tumbler driving on rooftops, I mentioned in my last post that I don't think that vehicle weighed two tons as someone else said not to mention the roofs he was driving on most likely weren't the simple thin kind regular homes have. He was driving on large buildings. If anything it's a comic film and they always require a bit of suspension of disbelief.