Comics Why do people hate Carnage?

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Wasn't Gambit from th' 80s? Late 80s, but still.

 

[Cyclops]

Nope. He didn't show up until 1990. Product of the 90s.

 

[Symbiotica]

The main reason Carnage is hated is because its seen as the "in" thing to do. Then the person doing the hating will turn right around and tell you how much they love Kraven, or some other unspeakably stupid villainous has-been. Yeah, I'm convinced.

Not to mention all the people bleating "OH BUT HE HAS NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!" have never read the two staples of Carnage character development, "Mindbomb" and "It's a Wonderful Life." Those are all the character development he needs, really.

However even were that not the case, I am not one of these elitists who insist on knowing whether their favorite character was conceived on a Tuesday that happened to be a night of the full moon, or whatever. Some things are fun just because they're fun. Michael Myers was fun; he became un-fun when we got 50 Halloween sequels attempting to give him backstory. Every now and then, even in real life, you get a killing-machine born into the family of Man. They don't need a reason, they had great childhoods... they just like to inflict suffering. Chaos is their favorite thing.

To enjoy Carnage you have to be willing to relax and go with the flow, because what he's telling you really *is* insane. That doesn't go down well with our overly-analytical types. Some people get it, some don't.

Me, I like it like that. Hate Carnage? Fine. Go read about the X-Men or something.

 

[Dangerous]

I'd like to see carnage's symbiote come back and maybe attach itself to a new host, but I reckon Cletus is long gone.
It's for the best really, Carnage is quite dated I think, way 90's, heh.

 

[bulok]

Not to mention all the people bleating "OH BUT HE HAS NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!" have never read the two staples of Carnage character development, "Mindbomb" and "It's a Wonderful Life." Those are all the character development he needs, really.

However even were that not the case, I am not one of these elitists who insist on knowing whether their favorite character was conceived on a Tuesday that happened to be a night of the full moon, or whatever. Some things are fun just because they're fun. Michael Myers was fun; he became un-fun when we got 50 Halloween sequels attempting to give him backstory. Every now and then, even in real life, you get a killing-machine born into the family of Man. They don't need a reason, they had great childhoods... they just like to inflict suffering. Chaos is their favorite thing.

Wasn't Carnage abused by nuns? anyways, you just explained it best with your Michael Myers comparison. Carnage when he first came out was fine, he was this psycho naked dude talking to a doll like he's some little kid which totally creeped Spidey out.

It was the whole Maximum Carnage thing which drug on for months that was annoying. It should have been a 3 issue arc, tops, but it was almost a full year (at least it felt like it) that one just had a major overdose on the guy. I think that whole story arc did it for me. I've had my fill of Carnage for a lifetime.

 

[Joker]

I like him, although I would like to see him written with more depth as was said. Making him into a super-powered Ted Bundy would be really good. They always said he was a serial killer, but he seemed more like a mass murderer to me (just killing everyone he can as opposed to a group). I say bring him back, but a bit more down to earth. Have women aged 16-25 start appearing left in allies, evicerated all over manhattan, and have Carnage be the killer. It would make a nice little murder/mystery story for a lower teir character, like Luke Cage, or for The Pulse. Then you could have Spidey guest star in the last couple issues to help take him down.

 

[wolvie2020]

The main reason Carnage is hated is because its seen as the "in" thing to do. Then the person doing the hating will turn right around and tell you how much they love Kraven, or some other unspeakably stupid villainous has-been. Yeah, I'm convinced.

Not to mention all the people bleating "OH BUT HE HAS NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!" have never read the two staples of Carnage character development, "Mindbomb" and "It's a Wonderful Life." Those are all the character development he needs, really.

However even were that not the case, I am not one of these elitists who insist on knowing whether their favorite character was conceived on a Tuesday that happened to be a night of the full moon, or whatever. Some things are fun just because they're fun. Michael Myers was fun; he became un-fun when we got 50 Halloween sequels attempting to give him backstory. Every now and then, even in real life, you get a killing-machine born into the family of Man. They don't need a reason, they had great childhoods... they just like to inflict suffering. Chaos is their favorite thing.

To enjoy Carnage you have to be willing to relax and go with the flow, because what he's telling you really *is* insane. That doesn't go down well with our overly-analytical types. Some people get it, some don't.

Me, I like it like that. Hate Carnage? Fine. Go read about the X-Men or something.

I'm in total agreement with ya. It seems almost cool to say it now, as well as make people sound more intelligent by using such words as 'charachter depth.' (No offence to anyone in particular here, I'm making a general comment from reading various threads.)

Look, some stories need charachter depth, and some charachters need some great big backstory. And well, some charachters just need to be freaking badass.

Do we need to know every great detail about the history of Jack Baur in 24? No. Why do we like him? Becuase when he's captured, and hancuffed to a seat on a plane with 5 enemies on the plane, he still manages to break one guys neck, shoot another one, and hold the 3rd one hostage. Does it make a great deal of sense? No. Is it incredibly fun to watch, and make him bloody cool? Yes.

Yes, Carnage has been used very badly. But when used right, he can be a lot of fun. People like being scared by scary movies and such, for the thrill of it. Sometimes you need to get deep, and other times you need to cut the crap and get to the messy part, the fun part. Carnage is one of those other times. There's room for everything. I mean, if all we had were serious pysychological stories going into the depth of every villain in every Spider-Man story, we'd all be complaining!

And I like the comparison made to the Joker. It's easy to diss Carnage as he was created in the 90's, (and it's trendy to diss ANYTHING from the 90's right now,) but no one would ever even consider saying a bad word about the Joker. But you know what? They are very similar charachters. We've never had a real backstory for him, aside from Alan Moore's The Killing Joke. It's a great read, but I'm sorry, by everyones standards here, not even that is good enough to make someone into a charachter like the Joker. Lots of bad things happen to him, and he falls in acid. Why don't some of you make fun of that? It's really easy. Go on, seriously.

Didn't think so. And in the decades of his exsistence, has the Joker had any real charachter development? No. Does he need any? No. Why? Cause he's freaking scary, and damn cool. The Joker doesn't need to make any sense, he's the perfect foil for Batman's extreme logic, complete insanity. Carnage works in the same manner, it's fun.

And for those of you going on about how his insanity doesn't make sense, and the reasons aren't valid enough? Well guess what, that's why these people are classed INSANE. These kind of people don't make sense, and we'll never understand them, that's why we have to keep them in mental homes. If we could make sense of it, we could cure these people.

That's what these stories tap into, the fear of something that can hurt us, and we can't find a reason for it. I've been attacked a mentally disturbed person, it was pretty scary. And the thought of this person having super powers, is scary as hell.

These are the kind of stories Carnage was designed for, a fun, scary, thrill. Not a deep anylitcal story of someone trying to find there way into helping themselves, or trying to be a better man, and messing up along the way

 

[wolvie2020]

Double Post

 

[Silver Sable]

Wasn't Carnage abused by nuns? anyways, you just explained it best with your Michael Myers comparison. Carnage when he first came out was fine, he was this psycho naked dude talking to a doll like he's some little kid which totally creeped Spidey out.

I don't think he was abused by nuns but he was abused by other boys and the man who was in charge of the orphanage.And it wasn't a doll he was talking to while naked.It was a teddy bear lol

As for me liking carnage again, I do have a confession.I don't have a problem with him being crazy but he's just way too crazy.They could had eased him down a bit with all the killings and stuff.If I were a writer, I'll do it my way.The only problem is that most of the readers will hate it

 

[Cyclops]

Don'tcha think that saying Carnage and The Joker are in the same league is kinda exaggerating? Carnage is no Joker, if you ask me.

 

[Silver Sable]

Your right.Both are crazy but have different behaviors

 

[ragingdemon155]

Don'tcha think that saying Carnage and The Joker are in the same league is kinda exaggerating? Carnage is no Joker, if you ask me.

I will agree with that.

No one can compete with Joker and I'm not even a Batman fan. Come on now. Joker is the most recognizable villain in comics ever and probably the most unique.

 

[Cyclops]

Your right.Both are crazy but have different behaviors

VASTLY different. The only thing they have in common is lunacy.

 

[Silver Sable]

My fault

 

[LobokDaikon]

Don'tcha think that saying Carnage and The Joker are in the same league is kinda exaggerating? Carnage is no Joker, if you ask me.

I don't think they're saying the two are in the same league, only that the common criticism against Carnage could be applied to Joker, as well. What is Joker's motivation, how he has grown, or changed? We don't even know how he came to be, as The Killing Joke is only a possible origin. His gimmick might be more entertaining, but is there actually more depth?

And really, it's not like most villains have much character development anyway. Plus, for the most part, the stories and flashbacks that have fleshed out the classic villains we know of today came about many years after.

 

[bulok]

I don't think they're saying the two are in the same league, only that the common criticism against Carnage could be applied to Joker, as well. What is Joker's motivation, how he has grown, or changed? We don't even know how he came to be, as The Killing Joke is only a possible origin. His gimmick might be more entertaining, but is there actually more depth?

And really, it's not like most villains have much character development anyway. Plus, for the most part, the stories and flashbacks that have fleshed out the classic villains we know of today came about many years after.

Joker went crazy after one horrible day in his life. Lost his baby, lost his wife and was used as a pawn by a crime lord.

Cletus is a cheap, pumped up Joker wannabe. They're not in the same league. Joker is actually fun to read.

 

[E.Brock]

carnage is hated because everyone already had venom...although hes not the same villian hes the same concept only with less apeal....i think if carnage had been created first then venom would get the shaft as the sloppy second which pains me to say since i am an undying venom fan, in all honesty i dnt agree with that at all....i just thought it was interesting way to look at it

 

[E.Brock]

carnage is hated because everyone already had venom...although hes not the same villian hes the same concept only with less apeal....i think if carnage had been created first then venom would get the shaft as the sloppy second which pains me to say since i am an undying venom fan, in all honesty i dnt agree with that at all....i just thought it was interesting way to look at it

 

[Vile]

Carnage couldnt touch Joker on his BEST DAY.

Carnage was a flash in the pan - Joker is forever.

 

[E.Brock]

srry bout the double post

 

[E.Brock]

Carnage couldnt touch Joker on his BEST DAY.

Carnage was a flash in the pan - Joker is forever.

....well if your looking at it in the sense... would carnage defeat the joker....cletus would mop the floor with the joker...if uve read the batman/spiderman compilation then u can see carnage actually easily slips his symbiote up carnages nose and gives him some form of labotomy which he is able to control him...and beyond that, carnage has the symbiote period....also in that comic batman went toe to toe with carnage and whooped his ass which is a little un accurate considering the fight was purely physical

 

[bulok]

He's not talking about "powers" since Joker has none. He's talking about the character itself. Joker is XXXXXXXXXX times better.

 

[Won '08]

Hate carnage? What the hell...I know there are people who dont like the idea of the symbiotes but...it was never really brought up in Spider-Man at the time of his creation...a psychopathic killer with the power of Venom...who is STRONGER than the man who played with Spids like he was rag doll. It was un-presidented. I mean...sure there was the Sin-Eater...but he had purpose.

There was Vermin...he was a tragic case.

Cletus Kasady LOVED murder. And he suddenly aquired a means to kill almost ANYONE he wanted.

Spidey knew the only way to stop him might have been to put him down, but even so, he told Eddie (After recruiting his help) "No killing". He was fighting a losing battle.

It was just so crazy. They crapped on the symbiotic popularity as of late, I know, but classic Carnage and Venom...pristine to the series. I so miss those days. The early 90's....sigh.

 

[Carnage 707]

Joker went crazy after one horrible day in his life. Lost his baby, lost his wife and was used as a pawn by a crime lord.

Cletus is a cheap, pumped up Joker wannabe. They're not in the same league. Joker is actually fun to read.

As a foreword, I'm gonna say that Joker is one of my favorite villians of all time, and that clearly Cletus Kasady was influenced by the Joker.

With that said, Carnage has a back-story, and origin, motivation, what have you. He was abused at a young age, being beaten by his mother and his father. Similar to real-life serial killers, Cletus developed sociopathic tendencies and became violent and monstrous himself. After his father killed his mother for beating on Cletus, Cletus turned around and claimed his father murdered his mother for no reason, getting rid of both of his antagonists.

But his story didn't stop there, with his predisposition torwards violence and being under the care of abusive foster parents, schoolmates and adults, cletus snapped completely and reveled in the choas and pain around him and decided he was going to be the one to inflict the chaos upon the world. What was once a boy was now a monster with a black hole for a soul, living only to bring death, choas and Carnage. I've left out many other details, but that's the streamlined version. Add to that his motivation to bring choas and "Free" people from laws and morals, you have a very interesting character.

Joker had one bad day? Cletus had one bad Life.

And that's all BEFORE the symbiote.

 

[Won '08]

Joker went crazy after one horrible day in his life. Lost his baby, lost his wife and was used as a pawn by a crime lord.

Cletus is a cheap, pumped up Joker wannabe. They're not in the same league. Joker is actually fun to read.

You know nothing about Carnage and his story. I suggest reading : Carnage:Mindbomb.