Why do people say Zack Snyder doesn’t respect comics?

[CocoReturns]

The Snydercut feels like a complete movie, but it's less "Whelming" than DCAU content, and feels like Watchmen grim-dark meets Avengers' set piece oriented plotting. The tone alone would be mildly polarizing, but I find it to be marginally better than 300.

 

[Limonade]

I guess I don’t see where making him a closed minded jerk is compelling. I’m BvS it felt like Batman was played the fool by Lex, and that shouldn’t be the case.

Well compelling in the sense, that his driving motivation had made him into an unpredictable wildcard. I mean yes, he was used by Lex... his obsession with Superman clouded his view... but he really stood out above Superman because of this out-of-character characteristic.

Regardless, it seemed that Batman had less to do in this movie compared to BvS. And it would've gotten worse for Supes and Batman, if Snyder remained at the helm.

 

[CharlesCCX]

I think it more that doesn’t get certain things. As in he mostly got the Watchmen look right but he missed the point of several scenes.

 

[CocoReturns]

"A little more like manslaughter than murder, although I would say that in the Frank Miller comic book that I reference, he kills all the time. There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun…I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun. One shot. Of course, I went to the gas tank, and all of the guys I work with were like, ‘You’ve gotta shoot him in the head’ because they’re all comic book dorks, and I was like, ‘I’m not gonna be the guy that does that!’

Read More: Zack Snyder on Why Batman Breaks His Own Rules | Zack Snyder on Why Batman Breaks His Own Rules"

Offity oof ooof ooff..and I'm the one who will defend Watchmen like it's my own doggy

 

[Babillygunn]

I liked the Snyder cut. I found it surprisingly well done. But it definitely has its issues. My biggest problem is the one that answers this question: in Snyder’s world, if anything bad happens to Lois, Superman acts out Injustice as opposed to Kingdom Come.

 

[The Guard]

I liked the Snyder cut. I found it surprisingly well done. But it definitely has its issues. My biggest problem is the one that answers this question: in Snyder’s world, if anything bad happens to Lois, Superman acts out Injustice as opposed to Kingdom Come.

Sure, when the Anti-Life Equation is used on him.

 

[Babillygunn]

Sure, when the Anti-Life Equation is used on him.

Grant Morrison was bold enough to write Wonder Woman, Mary Marvel, Oliver Queen, Mister Terrific and numerous others being overtaken by the anti life equation. He was also intelligent enough to realize that having those characters kill other heroes would be unforgivable and a terrible idea. Anti Life or not, you should not have Superman killing other Justice League members. That’s just a bad idea.

 

[The Guard]

And plenty of writers have shown Superman being taken over by mind control, magic, etc.

It's an alternate universe thing. The whole point was to create stakes that are unique in the pantheon of superhero movies. It was all going to be undone, but the "alternate timeline" element would have been pretty cool, and very DC.

Anyway, I think what they should have done is had Lois succumb to Anti-Life, along with much of Earth. Less fridging, more a challenge to overcome for her and a couple of key human characters. Seeing his adopted world fall would be the thing that allowed Superman to be susceptible to Anti-Life, not just the death of Lois Lane.

 

[Babillygunn]

Or they could, you know...not plant the visual of Superman killing innocent people. Alternate timeline or not.

it’s one thing to have Superman fall prey to control by a villain. It’s quite another to have him mowing people down with heat vision. Not in main continuity. Alternate earth, maybe. But not alternate timeline in this earth.

 

[TheVileOne]

The director's cut is an improvement, but it still doesn't make me believe he likes or respect the comics.

Narratively, the director's cut is more cohesive, and Steppenwolf is a halfway decent villain now. Now he actually has motivations and goals and some depth.

The inclusion of Martian Manhunter doesn't work for me, along with making Swanwick Manhunter, Batman forming the League and leading them for the most part, and Batman in general. Bat-voice sounds awful. Batman's fighting and choreography, especially against the parademons looks awful.

I still feel like Superman never truly becomes Superman.

Also, while Steppenwolf is improved here, this version of Darkseid was not impressive to me. He came off like a pushover.

 

[Yowza]

I think Martian Manhunter just wasn't inserted very well due to post production constraints.

I think Batman's voice sounds better than Bale's I cringe when I hear that raspy voiced English accent. It doesn't play well for me anymore as it sounds really forced. Affleck's synthed voice is what Nolan was truly going for I think. The fighting from Batman also was the best yet I thought.

However, I didn't like how Gotham was the flipside to Metropolis and snugly trying to fit Batman as being the opposite side of the coin to Superman though for theatrical exhibition purposes though. The future JL movies even with the Batman and Lois affair nixed by WB just was too weird though and shows yes Snyder was getting too fixated on Batman. Lois's kid still planned to be a future Batman was thrown in and a stupid idea for many reasons too. The sharing the same mother name was another attempt to make these 2 separate characters intertwined moreso too which I didn't like even though yes I can get by the whole Martha yelling to a point.

If Snyder had kept making films though I think some of the poor creative decisions would've been tiring after another movie so I can accept things ending at the Snyder cut (that being said, if a sequel was made now many years later it probably wouldn't fit the same model as if it was made years ago).

And plenty of writers have shown Superman being taken over by mind control, magic, etc.

It's an alternate universe thing. The whole point was to create stakes that are unique in the pantheon of superhero movies. It was all going to be undone, but the "alternate timeline" element would have been pretty cool, and very DC.

Anyway, I think what they should have done is had Lois succumb to Anti-Life, along with much of Earth. Less fridging, more a challenge to overcome for her and a couple of key human characters. Seeing his adopted world fall would be the thing that allowed Superman to be susceptible to Anti-Life, not just the death of Lois Lane.

Less fridging?

Anyway I like the point made here in terms of a bigger scope being used to showcase the fall of the world making Superman succumb.

I do think it complicates things timetravel wise as no longer a single point in time (Lois's death) to undue though but I suppose the script writer could work through some additional afterall that's what they're paid for.

 

[Awest66]

That's just the impression I get from watching his movies.

 

[Mani-Man]

Narratively, the director's cut is more cohesive, and Steppenwolf is a halfway decent villain now. Now he actually has motivations and goals and some depth.

Does it always need a villian with depth?
I dont know, i really liked Whedons version where he is just a selfish guy who wants power.
For a first team up i think having a empty villian is fine.

Just some evil villian who wants to destroy and take over with the most basic motivation and goals.

I found Snyders steppenwolf super weak in that because his "please take me back daddy" motivation didnt work for me.
To be fair however, that could be because Snyder did an even worse job on Darkseid when he introduced a loser who barely put up a fight and then forgot the most important planet for him for no reason.

Trying to sell me then Steppenwolf as the guy who just does what he did because he wants to please and be the lapdog again for that same guy, not the best way to sell me that.

 

[TheVileOne]

Does it always need a villian with depth?
I dont know, i really liked Whedons version where he is just a selfish guy who wants power.
For a first team up i think having a empty villian is fine.

Just some evil villian who wants to destroy and take over with the most basic motivation and goals.

I found Snyders steppenwolf super weak in that because his "please take me back daddy" motivation didnt work for me.
To be fair however, that could be because Snyder did an even worse job on Darkseid when he introduced a loser who barely put up a fight and then forgot the most important planet for him for no reason.

Trying to sell me then Steppenwolf as the guy who just does what he did because he wants to please and be the lapdog again for that same guy, not the best way to sell me that.

When it's Steppenwolf, YES.

Because for example, even the theatrical cut leaves in that "FOR DARKSEID!" line in. And that's the ONLY vestige for Darkseid left in the theatrical cut. It's clunky. My problem with Steppenwolf in the theatrical cut is that his goal and motivations were vague. It seemed like he worshipped the Mother Boxes and saw them as his mothers or something. Like that's all I could grasp onto.

But like in the extended cut, while I think Steppenwolf is better, the Darkseid stuff that is there is what suffers to me.

 

[SiegePerilous]

The director's cut is an improvement, but it still doesn't make me believe he likes or respect the comics.

Narratively, the director's cut is more cohesive, and Steppenwolf is a halfway decent villain now. Now he actually has motivations and goals and some depth.

The inclusion of Martian Manhunter doesn't work for me, along with making Swanwick Manhunter, Batman forming the League and leading them for the most part, and Batman in general. Bat-voice sounds awful. Batman's fighting and choreography, especially against the parademons looks awful.

I still feel like Superman never truly becomes Superman.

Also, while Steppenwolf is improved here, this version of Darkseid was not impressive to me. He came off like a pushover.

He really never becomes Superman. He's just a plot device in this movie. I guess keeping his character "at a distance" and just having him punch things was better than Snyder attempting to delve into his character and messing up completely. It'd be underwhelming but serviceable if not for the atrocious Knightmare stuff. Also putting him on a pedestal power wise really throws the rest of the League under the bus, especially Wonder Woman who is meant to be either his exact equal or very close to it.

A few months after seeing this, I still stick by my impression that this was a solid "shut your brain off and watch the action" movie with a straightforward plot. It's attempts at having depth are still pretty laughable but the plot being less ambitious than BvS helps not to drag it down too much. It's way better than the Whedon cut so Snyder is validated there, but the movie is still overall just....aggressively average.

 

[FunkMiller]

Snyder’s principal problem is his never ending cynicism, probably brought about by his love of Rand. It’s easily his main flaw, and why making mainstream superhero movies is probably not the best thing for him to be doing - especially characters like Superman.

That video clip of him sneering at anyone who thinks Batman shouldn’t kill is evidence that cynicism.

 

[Doctorwho12]

I believe Zack Snyder understands comics. I loved his take on his trilogy. that was unfortunately cut short by an incompetent studio who has no business owning dc comics.

 

[fan4stic]

I believe Zack Snyder understands comics. I loved his take on his trilogy. that was unfortunately cut short by an incompetent studio who has no business owning dc comics.

Snyder isn't owed anything, on his own. He doesn't own the characters and he's not entitled to leeway with anything if the studio feels he's not succeeding in the interest of their goals, like this. You, he and all his fans don't decide anything in regards to the competence of the studio, for their choices.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I believe Zack Snyder understands comics. I loved his take on his trilogy. that was unfortunately cut short by an incompetent studio who has no business owning dc comics.

He was hardly cut short. He was blindly given 3 films back2back, 1st one was decent but didnt wow the audience, 2nd failed om just about everything. He did nothing to deserve 5 films.

 

[Another_Fool]

I think Snyder has great respect for the comics. I just don't know that he fully grasps the nuance on what made the arcs he tries to bring to the screen special, other than the visual level.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I believe Zack Snyder understands comics. I loved his take on his trilogy. that was unfortunately cut short by an incompetent studio who has no business owning dc comics.

Zack Snyder had no business directing a moving about 2 of the worlds greatest heroes only to attempt a "deconstruction" of those characters and not even a good one that makes sense. He doesn't get Batman or Superman, and if he ever did, he sure as hell doesn't act like he respects them.

 

[Doctorwho12]

Snyder isn't owed anything, on his own. He doesn't own the characters and he's not entitled to leeway with anything if the studio feels he's not succeeding in the interest of their goals, like this. You, he and all his fans don't decide anything in regards to the competence of the studio, for their choices.

You are right, we don't have any say, but WB didn't have to cut down Batman V Superman or drop him from JL in favor of Whedon. Those decisions didn't work.

‘Justice League’ Screenwriter Chris Terrio Is Super Pissed Off

WB Gave Man Of Steel Writer Ridiculous Note About Superman’s Ending

 

[fan4stic]

You are right, we don't have any say, but WB didn't have to cut down Batman V Superman or drop him from JL in favor of Whedon. Those decisions didn't work.

‘Justice League’ Screenwriter Chris Terrio Is Super Pissed Off

WB Gave Man Of Steel Writer Ridiculous Note About Superman’s Ending

I wouldn't suggest I think the opposing option is entirely great.

 

[Erzengel]

You are right, we don't have any say, but WB didn't have to cut down Batman V Superman or drop him from JL in favor of Whedon. Those decisions didn't work.

Who's to say that the Ultimate Cut of BvS or a 3 hour version of Snyder's JL would have done better in the theaters?

 

[Doctorwho12]

Who's to say that the Ultimate Cut of BvS or a 3 hour version of Snyder's JL would have done better in the theaters?

Over the years, we have proven we could sit through long films endgame, LOTR trilogy, and Zacks cut, topped endgame in china. So there is a market for this.