Why do you hate Wolveirne?

[deemar325]

If it happens it'll be after a major Wolverine backlash. Like what happened to the Punisher.

 

[jbone55]

I am reading Origins right now. I stopped with Wolverine once it arched off. I like what many have said in this thread. Wolverine has been overexposed and made God-like.

I'm sorry but in the Ultimate series with a Hulk whos hand is as big as his body. Wolverine should be so owned. He did get ripped in half but he should be destroyed.

I like the Wolverine of old. I like the new one whos smart, strategic like Bruce and Deathstroke, and who has great leadership qualities. But why not have him like old with all these new qualities? That will make him even more effective because he wouldn't go into a battle knowing he's the best, he would go in believing he'll give the best he has. This 100 years of experience and living should count for a lot.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Not necessarily. Batman, Superman and Spider-Man are all immensely poopluar and have more exposure then Wolverine, but I can understand them. Those characters have incredible mass appeal, not to mention very deep symbolism.

Wolverine just seems to get by on "cool factor" alone

Yes, they're all popular, as to exposure, the amount of books Wolverine has compared to them doesn't equal up in each case however. As to you being able to relate to them, well that's a personal view and has nothing to do with the character itself, just each individual's preception of him. Just as you find him more difficult to relate to, a larger chunk of cmic book readers CAN relate to him, it all matters but obviously more so to that person and those that see through that same particular window.

Appeal, well yeah they all also have massive appeal, including Wolverine. As to symbolism, Wolverine has indeed become the staple for the 'cool' or 'badass' factor, his character and the fan following have made him just that. It's therefore how he's pushed and he is indeed pushed and people continue to buy.

The core of my earlier post was that once a character reaches this level of popularity, they have to change to appeal to the audience as a whole, in general if you will. Wolverine could afford to be tactical and methodical when he was at a smaller fan following but once that popularity grew, they found a much more simple and appealing way to get him across to the general audience, instead of the smaller specialized group. They overshadowed the tact and intelligence with an animalistic fury and cunning. A cigar smoking, beer drinking, quick healing, woman stealing guy. They took the traits that gained him his foundation and made it his everything. Now it turned away some of the early fans but it has turned around and gained a larger crowd, an exponentailly larger crowd.

Now of course many of the internet community want him to change to when he was 10, 20 years ago, as is the case with most everything in comics. The problem comes in when, how can I put this? For instance, if you've got a barber that up and decides that the hair cuts back in the 80s were better quality than what's being done now and he starts to cut his customer's hair in the 80s style, the customer's going to turn on him and say 'I don't want this, I look like an old ass man.' This is quite the same with what's going on now. They've got Wolverine to his modern, more marketable and hyped stage with an enormous following, if they changed him back, took away some of the titles, they take a big chance of losing that majority to please the minority. Now ethics? It's a loyal move. Financially, it's suicice. It's just not smart business, so they'll continue with the animal Logan, and we'll see some of the old Wolverine every now and again but not too much. I really can't blame a company for trying to make as much money as they can off a popular character. Now if the buyers slow down on the sales, they'll have a legit reason to revamp Logan. It always lies with the consumer; you can complain and keep buying, or you can show them in the most direct route that you aren't happy: your money.

And just like Spiderman, Batman, and Superman, this is all just a change from popular characters to comic icons. The other changes just sit better among other fans than they do for Wolverine and not so good with the rest. You can never make everyone happy since not everyone can agree on what's best for a character, it's all opinon. If you favor tactics, then the 80s. If you prefer badass personification, Camel cigarette type guy, then the current version.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Oh yeah, on a little side note, ALOT of characters get upgrades in power and ability, but everyone chafes when Logan does. Why is that exactly?

 

[Elijya]

Yes, they're all popular, as to exposure, the amount of books Wolverine has compared to them doesn't equal up in each case however. As to you being able to relate to them, well that's a personal view and has nothing to do with the character itself, just each individual's preception of him. Just as you find him more difficult to relate to, a larger chunk of cmic book readers CAN relate to him, it all matters but obviously more so to that person and those that see through that same particular window.

It is personal opinion but it is possible to make blanket statements. If that wasn't possible, why would an English teacher teach Shakespeare, or anything for that matter? If it's all opinion and all opinions are valid, you could write a very well researched paper on how MacBeth was a *****, Juliet was a ****, Prospero was an idiot, and Shylock was a stand up guy. You'd be wrong, though.

Refering to Spider-Man is an "everyman" isn't just opinion, it's commonly accepted literary fact. Batman and Superman are tragedies.

What is Wolverine?

 

[Varient]

It is personal opinion but it is possible to make blanket statements. If that wasn't possible, why would an English teacher teach Shakespeare, or anything for that matter? If it's all opinion and all opinions are valid, you could write a very well researched paper on how MacBeth was a *****, Juliet was a ****, Prospero was an idiot, and Shylock was a stand up guy. You'd be wrong, though.

Refering to Spider-Man is an "everyman" isn't just opinion, it's commonly accepted literary fact. Batman and Superman are tragedies.

What is Wolverine?

Wolverine is "inconsistant"

Someone with a healing factor who in canon cannot stay drunk for more than two hours should wake up full of energy and "peppy"

The standard is currently a hung over, bad tempered, slow moving mutant.

He's the ultimate slob,.. the bad boy who's irrissitable to women, bangs women 60+ years younger than he is yet is supposed to automatcaly a good parent.


Arrrrghhhh!.

 

[UK_Stu]

The Wolverine I liked was a little hairy Canadian with an attitude who was almost always the underdog, who silently lusted after the woman of her dreams who he couldn't get. The guy, who was beaten to a bloody pulp very often by more powerful foes, but wouldn's quit, wouldn't stop coming.

The New Wolverine I hate is an immortal badass man god, women throw themselves on him, and he can deal with the likes of Juggernaut with ease. He can take out Magneto, and the brag about it. Everybody looks up to him like the best of the best, even if they bested him in the past (Spidey for example) The Wolverine I hate is an *******.

This is pretty much how I feel. Back in the day Wolverine had an appeal, these days he's just way too powerful. I'm not sure I truly hate him, but I don't really like him either, at least not in his current format

 

[Harlekin]

It is personal opinion but it is possible to make blanket statements. If that wasn't possible, why would an English teacher teach Shakespeare, or anything for that matter? If it's all opinion and all opinions are valid, you could write a very well researched paper on how MacBeth was a *****, Juliet was a ****, Prospero was an idiot, and Shylock was a stand up guy. You'd be wrong, though.

Refering to Spider-Man is an "everyman" isn't just opinion, it's commonly accepted literary fact. Batman and Superman are tragedies.

What is Wolverine?

But the beauty about these kind of characters is that some things can be argued very well. However, your analogy doesn't fit. I can call Prospero an idiot based on the tactics he used during the "The Tempest". I can however not disagree with the 'Spider-Man is an everyman' thing because that's the archetype that the character is built on. That's an aspect of the character. If I want to conclude that Hamlet was a ***** I can though, assuming that I would be able to find the relevant sources and arguments within Shakespeare's work to found this. However, what you can't dispute is that Hamlet is a tragedy.

Difference between the view of a character and the character's archetype.

 

[screech_turbo]

I hate *Ultimate* Wolverine, but that's only 'cause he sucks.

yeah, i really hated that soulpatch thing he had.

 

[Red]

It is personal opinion but it is possible to make blanket statements. If that wasn't possible, why would an English teacher teach Shakespeare, or anything for that matter? If it's all opinion and all opinions are valid, you could write a very well researched paper on how MacBeth was a *****, Juliet was a ****, Prospero was an idiot, and Shylock was a stand up guy. You'd be wrong, though.

Refering to Spider-Man is an "everyman" isn't just opinion, it's commonly accepted literary fact. Batman and Superman are tragedies.

What is Wolverine?

Fail to see how Superman is a tragedy.

 

[Zeu]

Fail to see how Superman is a tragedy.

I´ve said enough.

 

[Red]

How could she like him with that terrible Wolverine look, we will never know.

 

[XwolverineX]

^ ??

What?

 

[foxx5]

How could she like him with that terrible Wolverine look, we will never know.

terrible? You know when she is looking at Superman she is really thinking about hairly Wolveirne

 

[comicbookmaster]

I don't really hate that stinking short canadian,but my GF really loves him ever since I took her to see the first x-movie,she fell in love with that damn canuck,so everthing is about wolverine,the only book she reads is wolverine or cable and deadpool,but wolverine is in ever book-power pack,spider-man,new avengers,batman,witchblade,teen titans,uncanny x-men,new x-men,tea and x-men,I saw him in the crisis of infinte earths,wolverine was in Pirates of the Caribbean and in the new superman movie,also in porno movies,the guys is everywhere!!!take it down a notch with wolverine.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

It is personal opinion but it is possible to make blanket statements. If that wasn't possible, why would an English teacher teach Shakespeare, or anything for that matter? If it's all opinion and all opinions are valid, you could write a very well researched paper on how MacBeth was a *****, Juliet was a ****, Prospero was an idiot, and Shylock was a stand up guy. You'd be wrong, though.

Refering to Spider-Man is an "everyman" isn't just opinion, it's commonly accepted literary fact. Batman and Superman are tragedies.

What is Wolverine?

Well Harlekin already debunked the bulk of that statement so I'll just skip to the Spiderman portion. Him being an everyman in and of itself is false, he can't be an 'everyman' since that term in and of itself is a false generization. There is no such thing as an everyman in society, this is proven by the simple fact that society is built into classes. Even if you ignored that and just pointed it to your 'average man', even there the term is defeated because there is no one consistent element in even the singular middle class 'average joe'.

So as I said, it's ALL opinon. Just because some figures get accolades from some for whatever reason (degress, research, money, station, ect.) doesn't make it any more substantial, just means it's been set forth and accepted. When it comes to characters such as we see in comics and books, there's very little you can put down as FACT when referring to the quality or 'worth'. It's far too relative.

 

[SLVRSR4]

I love wolverine i know people hate him and i can see why but i think he's funny he reminds me of my step dad and he is awesome in the movies i lvoe how they do the regeneration

 

[spartin2008]

I Still Say Wolverine From The Episodes Of Spider-man And His Amazing Friends Is The Best!!!

 

[Morgoth]

Anyone who doesn't like Wolvie is no true Marvel fan. They are a bunch of wimps who can't get such a cool character, so they gravitate towards wimps such as Cyclops.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Anyone who doesn't like Wolvie is no true Marvel fan. They are a bunch of wimps who can't get such a cool character, so they gravitate towards wimps such as Cyclops.

*Pushes Morgoth back in the closet*

You're NOT helping our cause with blanket statements and generalizations that rival those being levelled against Logan.

 

[deemar325]

What?

I just got lost in the conversation earlier.

No biggie.

 

[KAD]

(Smile)
I like his "Ideal"

I dislike his overexposure and warping of his powers.
I dislike his ever fluxuating fighting skill level.

I don't care how good he is at what he does,... there are some heroes that can handle him easily w/o heat,... and these heroes have a healthy over-rated respect of his claws.

As long as he is fan-driven to be able to take on the hulk or survive ground zero on a tactical nuke,.... Or Tag spiderman on his best day,... I'm going to dislike the character.

You all forget Wolverine was created as credible threat to the Hulk (Ask Herb Trimpe) that has been convoluted over time into a lesser able character, not the other way around.


Go back and read the first post the info is 100% correct. Wolverine easily fought the HUlk and Wendigo in his first appearance.

He is the victim of capitalism and the 90's comic code.

 

[KAD]

It is personal opinion but it is possible to make blanket statements. If that wasn't possible, why would an English teacher teach Shakespeare, or anything for that matter? If it's all opinion and all opinions are valid, you could write a very well researched paper on how MacBeth was a *****, Juliet was a ****, Prospero was an idiot, and Shylock was a stand up guy. You'd be wrong, though.

Refering to Spider-Man is an "everyman" isn't just opinion, it's commonly accepted literary fact. Batman and Superman are tragedies.

What is Wolverine?

IMO Wolverine represents the inner struggle we all face in our lives between right and wrong.

He is in many ways an analogy for the Human condition.

Tech + nature = Wolverine = Modern man

 

[deemar325]

IMO Wolverine represents the inner struggle we all face in our lives between right and wrong.

He is in many ways an analogy for the Human condition.

Tech + nature = Wolverine = Modern man

I think it's more the struggle of man versus his baser instincts and a struggle to regain a sense of ones's true self and overcome the metaphorical 'rape/violation' of his mind and body at the hands of 'big brother/governmental authority' and to do this he must become the utter extreme example of masculinity.


or maybe I'm way off?

 

[KAD]

I think it's more the struggle of man versus his baser instincts and a struggle to regain a sense of ones's true self and overcome the metaphorical 'rape/violation' of his mind and body at the hands of 'big brother/governmental authority' and to do this he must become the utter extreme example of masculinity.


or maybe I'm way off?

Have you ever read Blood and Ice

Great perspective on the character and his potential

Also a great example of the analogy I wrote about earlier