Why does Sam Raimi insist on killing villians?

[HCpride]

Not only that but you have come to a thread that discusses villians deaths. Now if we were only talking about Norman and Ock this thread would have been movied as it would have nothing to do with 3. But being as it is still here logic suggests that a character out of 3 will die and is being discussed.

but isnt there a rule around here somewhere that also says some people may not want to know stuff like that,they could have easily blacked out everything that was a spoiler

 

[chaseter]

^Then I am going to black out everything that is not a spoiler in the non-spoiler forum. This is a spoiler forum...guess what is in it? Specifically, this is a thread discussing villian deaths in all three films...you figure you will find out who dies in SM3... Now when people start talking about say spoilers from the novel pertaining to Harry in the trailer thread...then you can get mad because that is wrong.

 

[Johnny Israel]

i agree Venom is bankable but not for a solo movie (besides what would they call it since there is a movie already called Venom). he is bankable enough though to put him in the next movie if they should make Spiderman 4.

I still think it be craptastic, but a Venom solo movie would probably feature him v.s. Carnage. Which many 90s kids would love, even though i think it be horrid. As for that crappy horror movie being called Venom, doesnt matter. I don't have an example readily coming to mind, but there can be several movies with the same name. I wouldnt use Brock in Spiderman 4, but maybe later on in the series helping spiderman defeat..something i dont know and redeem himself. Never forget Brock fights spidey because he sees him as evil, if there is a larger threat he will work with necessary "evil" that is spidey.

 

[shigsy2003]

but isnt there a rule around here somewhere that also says some people may not want to know stuff like that,they could have easily blacked out everything that was a spoiler

But why should they have to if it is posted in the Spoiler Forum? Any thread in the Spoiler Forum can contain spoilers, if people don't want the film spoilt then they should keep out. Simple as that.

I don't mean to sound rude but people complaining about the spoilers in the novelization are starting to grate on my nerves. I personally don't think the spoiler or blackout tags should be used in this section of the forum. Now if we were to mention the spoilers in the non-spoiler forum that would make far more sense. I think it is a little naive of people to think that they can hang around here and not think they are potentially going to read something they didn't want to.

Still, each to their own opinion

 

[MrZombay]

I think a Venom solo movie where he fought Carnage would be awesome, Tobey could even have a cameo as Spidey.

Probably won't happen in a million years though.

I wonder how Raimi and crew plus Sony will react if/when the general opinion was the movie needed way more Venom.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Well, these are the movies. This isn't the comic books where a villain can just repeatedly return in various different arcs. Norman died, Harry will finish the legacy in SM-3. Ock died, I don't see him returning, no matter what any of you say (And no, I doubt there will be a Sinister Six). And onto SM-3, Harry and Eddie die, Sandman lives. That's three villains, i'm not sure if Raimi would kill off all three, and what happens to Sandman when he's taken away, do they cure him? Getting rid of his sand powers? I just figure Raimi does it so there aren't any loose ends. I see this happening in possible future sequels.

good point and not to mention the fact that we don't know what will happen with Sandman after he leaves with his wife and daughter. I noticed that people have been complaining about brocks death so I will say this, if Venom wasn't to die in spidey3 then the oppertunities to bring back Doc Ock might be shattered because there is only a certain amount of villians they can put in one film without the film being crap so quite frankly Venom dieing in this fiilm will make the best for whats to come because even I don't want venom to die but obviously people must agree that it's acceptable. I mean, Sam is just tryting to do what is right to please all of his hardcore fans such as myself so that we don't start saying, "the films suck!!!". Venom's part in this film is how the symbiote effects brock's well being and mental state. it's going to consume him in horrible pain making it alright for Venom to die. which is yet another reason for Venom's death in this film. I'm just making my point of why it's alright for Venom to die, and trust me they are good reasons because it's suppose to teach us that evil can't consumed good....unless you let it control you in every suitable fashion that it likes to.

 

[Arcturus]

Oh hey, I don't like the idea of[BLACKOUT] Eddie Brock/Venom dying[/BLACKOUT] either, but that's the way it is. That's not going to ruin the experience for me, villains usually pay for their sins by the end of films anyways.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

You guys are getting too entangled in your love for the comic book side of things. You have to appeal to a much larger audience with these types of movies. There are some simple facts here you have to consider:

1. First off, this is a spoiler forum. If you don't like spoilers, go to the non-spoiler forum.

2. Venom is a hard character to work into a good movie. Sam Raimi had his doubts and for good reason, but gave the fans what they wanted. Venom is going to die and they are not going to bring him back because the stories will be tied up. Mary Jane isn't going to die because that would anger too many fans and would generally turn the storyline into a dark pit of nothingness, especially considering how the story began and what Peter wanted out of his life. Harry didn't technically have to die but it allows for a much more dramatic tie of a story between two friends with a very big difference introduced between them.

3. It's hard enough to work Venom into this, let alone Carnage. Carnage is really just a crazier Venom. No real added depth. You are never going to see Carnage on the big screen in these movies.

4. Sinister Six = Six villains = six villains in one movie = too many villains = too difficult to work all their individual stories together = don't you guys remember Mortal Kombat, Annihilation? You don't want another movie that just introduces characters and kills them off without giving them due respect on-screen. Be realistic, here -- it may work in an ongoing comic book series, but we only have so many movies to work with and lots of money involved with much at stake. To keep the movies interesting, elements of newness need to be thrown in here, and you are not going to get that by just throwing more baddies at Spiderman at once.

5. Venom is really a shallow character at best. He is not going to get his own movie. Also, SM3 death.

 

[CrashNburn]

i agree!!

 

[blind_fury]

You don't need a back story for the Sinsiter Six if the villians are introduced in Spider-man 2-5. Just have them team up against Spider-man in Spider-man 6 like the evil Kryptonians did in Superman 2 or the Brotherhood did in X-men.

Dr.Ock is the main bad guy and he has 5 superpowered henchmen. If executed properly it could be awesome.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

The issue though is that it is hard to make an effective story in only a few hours involving lots of characters and a little something for everyone. Most movies with multiple villains tend to fall short because it's hard to keep things coherent and cohesive.

If such an idea were to ever come to light, it would only be the result of SM3 being hugely successful despite having three (ok, ok, four) villains.

 

[Venom 1988]

You don't need a back story for the Sinsiter Six if the villians are introduced in Spider-man 2-5. Just have them team up against Spider-man in Spider-man 6 like the evil Kryptonians did in Superman 2 or the Brotherhood did in X-men.

Dr.Ock is the main bad guy and he has 5 superpowered henchmen. If executed properly it could be awesome.

Agreed, the only villains that would need backstory is Doc Ock and maybe one other villain(depending on who it is).

 

[CrashNburn]

i think that any of the films that tried too many multiple villians haven't done as well.

 

[The Joker]

i think that any of the films that tried too many multiple villians haven't done as well.

I think Spider-Man 3 will prove that it can be done in the right hands. We have three villains here.

 

[CrashNburn]

I think Spider-Man 3 will prove that it can be done in the right hands. We have three villains here.

Actually,I absolutely agree with you. I was referring more to movies like x-men 3. I dont think it was the best of the 3. I have a feeling that I will like the third spidey movie the most.

 

[dodus]

I don't get how people can call Venom "shallow" and yet have the biggest hard-on for Harry vs. Peter. Are their motivations really so different? Both are solely driven by legitimate grudges against Peter. What's shallow about that? Are you saying that a movie can't revolve around one character's beef with the other?

I similarly disagree that Venom couldn't hold his own movie. TAS pulled off a ridiculously sweet symbiote origin/Venom story in 90 minutes. 60 minutes of bad Spidey and building, 30 minutes of payoff. My point is, use your imagination. With a little fleshing out, Venom could rock an entire movie no problem.

Guess that doesn't matter though, because apparently he dies, and no one told me when this sub-forum had made the switch to actually containing spoilers from just being the only one that had newsworthy threads .

 

[Webzpinner]

5. Venom is really a shallow character at best. He is not going to get his own movie. Also, SM3 death.

Back in 1988, Venom was a unique character full of potential. He was the first major comicbook villain who had no ambition of riches or world dominance, just the death of the hero. All other villains in comics (Joker, Luthor, Magneto, Dr. Doom, Doc Ock) saw the hero as a mere roadblock to their ultimate goal.

Venom had a great opportunity to become a true perversion of Spider-man. However, pathetic writers trying to hit unrealistic deadlines took the easy way out and played Venom out like a $5 streetwalker. What Marvel needs to do is a major continuity edit and rework Venom:

-rework the lethal protector bit (have him killing local criminals while hunting for Spider-man). Venom is basically The Punisher with Spidey powers. He lost his wife, his relationship with his father, his job, his existance as a human... so many things that could be developed in the hands of someone competent.

-keep the dark humor (what's a "we want to eat your brains" among friends, eh?)

-play up the lethal rivalry. reduce Venom's use of tendrils, and re-inforce the connection to Spidey. Have both characters in New York, and when they meet up, it's a bloody fight with no real winner, rather than the usual cat-n-mouse chase with Venom ending up knocked out in a pool of black goo.

Venom is only a shallow character because he's never been written by a halfway decent writer.

 

[Venom 1988]

I similarly disagree that Venom couldn't hold his own movie. TAS pulled off a ridiculously sweet symbiote origin/Venom story in 90 minutes. 60 minutes of bad Spidey and building, 30 minutes of payoff. My point is, use your imagination. With a little fleshing out, Venom could rock an entire movie no problem.

That 3 part episode your talking about is basically the equivilant of this movie. Venom finally appears in the 3rd episode which would be the 3rd act of this movie.

 

[dodus]

That 3 part episode your talking about is basically the equivilant of this movie. Venom finally appears in the 3rd episode which would be the 3rd act of this movie.

That's what I'm saying when I refer to Venom holding his own movie...No Harry or Sandman necessary. I'm not suggesting a movie where Venom chases Spidey around for two hours, but I can see that being cool as well...see Webzpinner's post.

 

[Mr Jide]

I think a Venom solo movie where he fought Carnage would be awesome, Tobey could even have a cameo as Spidey.

Probably won't happen in a million years though.

I wonder how Raimi and crew plus Sony will react if/when the general opinion was the movie needed way more Venom.

Of course this won't happen. Spider-Man is far greater than venom and carnage combined, he's not going to be reduced to a feturing character in another character's movie. Besides, a solo venom movie is ******ed. If people want to see venom, they can expect to see him in a spidey movie and that my friend is exactly what's goin to happen

 

[venom628]

Of course this won't happen. Spider-Man is far greater than venom and carnage combined, he's not going to be reduced to a feturing character in another character's movie. Besides, a solo venom movie is ******ed. If people want to see venom, they can expect to see him in a spidey movie and that my friend is exactly what's goin to happen

No he aint

 

[Mr Jide]

what the hell are you talking about?

 

[CrashNburn]

wth???

 

[Zimmy]

If it is true that Venom really dies and not set up the 4th movie, then I would be pissed.
Venom could be his most challenging enemy and I would hate to be robbed of seeing Peter trying to figure out how to beat him.
It seems in 3 he gets his butt kicked and needs someone else bail him out.
If the screen time is limited, they better make the fight scene worthwile.

And something from that picture (of Venom having Spider-Man by the neck) bothers me, if it happens in the Church after Peter rips off the costume, when does he find the time to put on the Red suit?

 

[shigsy2003]

If it is true that Venom really dies and not set up the 4th movie, then I would be pissed.
Venom could be his most challenging enemy and I would hate to be robbed of seeing Peter trying to figure out how to beat him.
It seems in 3 he gets his butt kicked and needs someone else bail him out.
If the screen time is limited, they better make the fight scene worthwile.

And something from that picture (of Venom having Spider-Man by the neck) bothers me, if it happens in the Church after Peter rips off the costume, when does he find the time to put on the Red suit?

Okay first: Yes Venom/Eddie dies in 3 and is not set up for 4.

Second when did you here that the Venom/Spidey shot was in the church? It is clearly at the constructuin site. No doubt the part where Venom is urging Sandman to kill Spidey before Harry pumpkin bombs his a$$