Arrow Why is WB afraid of a seperate universe?

[Tv's Phil]

I just can't wrap my head around their stance that "You won't see a Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman on tv because these are separate universes" except Barry Allen, the major Flash, exists in the tv universe and it's all cool.

I've been a proponent of a combined universe for a long time and I've made my peace with the separation now. But this idea that the audience is smart enough for multiple Flashes but there can't be another Batman or Superman is just strange to me.

Either they're separate and the CW can use all the characters or they aren't and WB can limit what characters are used where. That's what logically makes sense to me. The refusal to allow the Trinity on tv seems so arbitrary.

Oh well. Maybe the Crisis on Flash will allow them to use like Batman from Earth 4 or some multiverse trick.

 

[bes628]

Is the throwaway line going to explain how aliens threatened to destroy the Earth? Is it going to explain why Superman didn't fight a horde of super strong people killing civilians in a city?

Because they dont always have Justice League help, because if thats the case we could say why didnt Batman just have Superman help with the court of owls.

 

[kguillou]

Exactly, what fun would it be if everytime batman had a challenging foe he just simply called Superman to help him dispose of him? Batman handles his own problems so does Superman so does Green Arrow so does Spiderman so does the Xmen and every other major comic character.

 

[Lighthouse]

I think it's just silly that Arrow has every single Batman villain and character in it, but is never allowed to talk about Batman.

 

[p4poetic]

I think it's just silly that Arrow has every single Batman villain and character in it, but is never allowed to talk about Batman.

I don't see how its a necessity.

 

[Guts]

I think it's just silly that Arrow has every single Batman villain and character in it, but is never allowed to talk about Batman.

I don't see how every single Batman villain has made a appearance in the show.

 

[Tec15]

I don't see how every single Batman villain has made a appearance in the show.

Yeah.... talk about typical wild over exaggerations. Only two clear cut Batman villains (Firefly and Dollmaker) have appeared, and considering that GA lent Clock King for Batman 66 and BTAS, Count Vertigo for BTAS and "The Batman"(This despite Batman's much deeper bench of villains), I'd say he's more then entitled to borrow a few Batman rouges if he sees fit.

 

[Sexy Magician]

I think it might be a bit silly when we see a totally different Flash and hopefully Green Arrow on the Big Screen.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah.... talk about typical wild over exaggerations. Only two clear cut Batman villains (Firefly and Dollmaker) have appeared, and considering that GA lent Clock King for Batman 66 and BTAS, Count Vertigo for BTAS and "The Batman"(This despite Batman's much deeper bench of villains), I'd say he's more then entitled to borrow a few Batman rouges if he sees fit.

While I would agree with your overall point, I think Ra's al-Ghul is the main one, not Firefly and Dollmaker. Those two were heavily altered anyway.

 

[kguillou]

Plus, does Green Arrow even have enough of his own villains to fill up 5 seasons? Hes gonna have to borrow some from other heroes.

 

[DrCosmic]

^He already does.

After he gets done with his own, and the DCU at large, he'll dip further into Batman's rogues.

Exactly, what fun would it be if everytime batman had a challenging foe he just simply called Superman to help him dispose of him? Batman handles his own problems so does Superman so does Green Arrow so does Spiderman so does the Xmen and every other major comic character.

They do, but it's also dumb. Batman shouldn't be endangering Gotham because it's more fun to fix it himself. We accept this caveat in comics, but it is bad storytelling, just like the revolving door of Arkham and the flimsy disguises that are never questioned. When adapting these properties, those are contrivances that go over easy with 12 year olds (and those who started reading at that age) that don't need to be adapted for a more cynical adult-ish audience.

I think it's just silly that Arrow has every single Batman villain and character in it, but is never allowed to talk about Batman.

If Batman doesn't exist in the Arrow-verse then it would be silly to have villains partially created by him exist there. Two Face for instance. But guys who would have existed anyway, like Dollmaker, Firefly, Mr. Freeze, Scarecrow, eventually they'd make their way to

I would love for Arrow to meet Bruce Wayne and learn of how his parents almost got shot, and how it encouraged him to be vigilant about using his wealth to prevent crime in Gotham by supporting the police and making political changes. That'd be so funny to me.

I just can't wrap my head around their stance that "You won't see a Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman on tv because these are separate universes" except Barry Allen, the major Flash, exists in the tv universe and it's all cool.

I've been a proponent of a combined universe for a long time and I've made my peace with the separation now. But this idea that the audience is smart enough for multiple Flashes but there can't be another Batman or Superman is just strange to me.

Either they're separate and the CW can use all the characters or they aren't and WB can limit what characters are used where. That's what logically makes sense to me. The refusal to allow the Trinity on tv seems so arbitrary.

Oh well. Maybe the Crisis on Flash will allow them to use like Batman from Earth 4 or some multiverse trick.

Consider that Flash isn't as major a character as the Trinity and won't be driving that universe like they will. There weren't two Flashes at comic con this year. And it has nothing to do with smart enough, it has to do with emotional attachment to a character or concept. Who is the definitive Flash and who is the lesser? As soon as the audience understands they're different, and they will understand, they make that value call. Those who've been watching Arrow will fall on Gustin's side and that's 2-5 million people that WB needs to love their Flash.

Now the way WB is avoiding this with Flash is pairing him up with GL. Who cares if they love Gustin's Flash more, or are satisfied (or disappointed) with the Flash action they get weekly and have no desire for a big film, it's not riding on Flash, or the audiences appeal, it's riding on the appeal of a Flash/GL team up. A buddy cop superhero movie. That's cool... and interesting. Plus it's also three plus years away, we can't be sure Flash will still be on.

 

[WBwins]

I think the Arrow,Flash and (possible GL)TV shows are a good strategy to build interst in this heroes before introducing to the big screen.I predict that WB wld have the shows end by the time they do want to introduce them to the big screen

 

[The Arrowverse]

I found/wrote these based on comments in on my Arrow based Facebook page...just to disagree/agree with some comments above....although at this point I have accepted it...(these were all preconfirmation) I still have hopes for a Crisis movie?


1) Arrow is absolutely NOT comparable to Agents of Shield when you want to talk about merging universes, and so called restrictions that could be put on Arrow. First off, has no one who claims this ever read a damn comic book? Things happen in comics all the time that are independent of each other and no one is like "hey where was Superman when Bane broke Batman's back" or things of that nature...there are no large scale restrictions that would be put on the Arrowverse for that exact reason, at most, they should reference or minorly acknowledge the events that occur, but otherwise its no big deal...it happens in movies all the time...where were the Avengers in Iron Man 3? Oh thats right...no one gives a crap where they were!.... Secondly, Arrow is already pretty restricted and its still fine! At the beginning of every season and on top of that every episode, producers have to run each plot by the big boys at WB and say can we do this? ok no...can we have this character? ok maybe.... Arrow is still amazing with the existing restrictions that it has...(any questions comment i will elaborate on them)

2) "Grant Gustin doesn't fit in the DCCU"... read a damn Flash comic! Yes, Gustin is a little bit younger than everyone else in the DCCU right now but who gives a damn! In a world of otherwise serious characters and adaptations The Flash (of all people) should be the young, hyper, fun loving character...and Gustin is the personification of those traits, I mean did you not see the Flash trailer?!?!? ..(any questions comment i will elaborate on them)

3) Arrow uses to many Batman villains thats why he won't be in the DCCU it would ruin Batman"

WRONG - The only Bat-Villains Arrow uses are those who you would never really see in a movie...stop complaining people

 

[DrCosmic]

I found/wrote these based on comments in on my Arrow based Facebook page...just to disagree/agree with some comments above....although at this point I have accepted it...(these were all preconfirmation) I still have hopes for a Crisis movie?


1) Arrow is absolutely NOT comparable to Agents of Shield when you want to talk about merging universes, and so called restrictions that could be put on Arrow. First off, has no one who claims this ever read a damn comic book? Things happen in comics all the time that are independent of each other and no one is like "hey where was Superman when Bane broke Batman's back" or things of that nature...there are no large scale restrictions that would be put on the Arrowverse for that exact reason, at most, they should reference or minorly acknowledge the events that occur, but otherwise its no big deal...it happens in movies all the time...where were the Avengers in Iron Man 3? Oh thats right...no one gives a crap where they were!.... Secondly, Arrow is already pretty restricted and its still fine! At the beginning of every season and on top of that every episode, producers have to run each plot by the big boys at WB and say can we do this? ok no...can we have this character? ok maybe.... Arrow is still amazing with the existing restrictions that it has...(any questions comment i will elaborate on them)

2) "Grant Gustin doesn't fit in the DCCU"... read a damn Flash comic! Yes, Gustin is a little bit younger than everyone else in the DCCU right now but who gives a damn! In a world of otherwise serious characters and adaptations The Flash (of all people) should be the young, hyper, fun loving character...and Gustin is the personification of those traits, I mean did you not see the Flash trailer?!?!? ..(any questions comment i will elaborate on them)

3) Arrow uses to many Batman villains thats why he won't be in the DCCU it would ruin Batman"

WRONG - The only Bat-Villains Arrow uses are those who you would never really see in a movie...stop complaining people

3) Deathstroke and Ra's Al Ghul so far are definitely movie worthy. I don't think they want those versions in film, with their hangups with Arrow as opposed to Batman.

2) Barry is not the hyper fun loving youngster of the team. That's Wally. Perhaps it's you who should be reading some comics.

1) Most people who watch these shows haven't read a comic book. So pointing out how comics don't make sense either doesn't make it okay. People forgive cartoon drawings of huge universes that we grew up on as kids. Not so much with live action small universes that are brand new to us. They have to make more sense than that.

 

[The Arrowverse]

3) Deathstroke and Ra's Al Ghul so far are definitely movie worthy. I don't think they want those versions in film, with their hangups with Arrow as opposed to Batman.

2) Barry is not the hyper fun loving youngster of the team. That's Wally. Perhaps it's you who should be reading some comics.

1) Most people who watch these shows haven't read a comic book. So pointing out how comics don't make sense either doesn't make it okay. People forgive cartoon drawings of huge universes that we grew up on as kids. Not so much with live action small universes that are brand new to us. They have to make more sense than that.

3) They would never use Deathstroke in a Batman solo flick when they have others EXACTLY like him like Wrath, The Court Of Owls Leaders etc...

2) Barry is ABSOLUTLEY hyper and fun loving...pick up any issue of the new 52....and even before that, its who the flash has always been....Wally is the funniEST and the MOST hyper...but Barry is certainly those to as well

1) That point doesn't make sense...I am not saying they need to read comics...im saying it is easily do able

 

[DrCosmic]

1) There are lots of bad/unappealing/silly ideas that are easily doable. Ease is not the concern.
2) Ah, I haven't read much new 52 Flash, maybe they've made him Wally West-like there. In the CW show, in the animated adaptations of the New 52, and in the last 70 years of comics, he's been a low key even keel everyman, most known for being late and over thinking things and being a science nerd.
3) But Deathstroke is better and more popular than all of those, which is why he appears more, and is asked for more. Same with Ra's, and other bad guys they'll keep adding that the DCCinematic Universe would be hamstringed by being tied to. Sure they can use lesser villains, but that's part of the problem.

 

[The Arrowverse]

1) There are lots of bad/unappealing/silly ideas that are easily doable. Ease is not the concern.
2) Ah, I haven't read much new 52 Flash, maybe they've made him Wally West-like there. In the CW show, in the animated adaptations of the New 52, and in the last 70 years of comics, he's been a low key even keel everyman, most known for being late and over thinking things and being a science nerd.
3) But Deathstroke is better and more popular than all of those, which is why he appears more, and is asked for more. Same with Ra's, and other bad guys they'll keep adding that the DCCinematic Universe would be hamstringed by being tied to. Sure they can use lesser villains, but that's part of the problem.

1) The idea of having things not all be acknowledged is not bad, nor unappealing, nor silly...it makes sense....you don't need complete acknowledgement....minor acknowledgement is always good ala Agents of Shield/Cap. 2....but, for example...you don't see Batman talking about the fact that Superman is currently some Doomsday controlled hulking version of himself, nor do you see Superman speaking of Damian's death and Bruce's hunt for Damian's body, but the two still exist in the same universe...and when they team up or come together with the league, they are acknowledged as such.

2) Maybe clown is the wrong word...but Barry is goofy for the same reasons you state yourself! Goofy/nerdy and kinda different.

3) Those were just sudden and quick examples, there are other villains in Batman's rogue gallery that are much more synonymous with the name Batman then Deathstroke, if anything he is synonymous with the Teen Titans more so than Batman, and as for Ra's...the degree in which he was used in Nolan's Batman Begins was a somewhat overexaggerted form of who Ra's Al Ghul is(he would never really leave the League and venture to Gotham over some fools crusade)...so if he was ever used in a movie...a few name drops and minor Arrow appearances wouldn't kill the character, especially considering the fact that Arrow has done wonders to bring new depths to The League of Assassins.

4) I am new to the forums so it is nice to see that people like you and I can converse our completely seperate opinions without it being an argument, so thank you.

 

[DrCosmic]

1) The idea of having things not all be acknowledged is not bad, nor unappealing, nor silly...it makes sense....you don't need complete acknowledgement....minor acknowledgement is always good ala Agents of Shield/Cap. 2....but, for example...you don't see Batman talking about the fact that Superman is currently some Doomsday controlled hulking version of himself, nor do you see Superman speaking of Damian's death and Bruce's hunt for Damian's body, but the two still exist in the same universe...and when they team up or come together with the league, they are acknowledged as such.

2) Maybe clown is the wrong word...but Barry is goofy for the same reasons you state yourself! Goofy/nerdy and kinda different.

3) Those were just sudden and quick examples, there are other villains in Batman's rogue gallery that are much more synonymous with the name Batman then Deathstroke, if anything he is synonymous with the Teen Titans more so than Batman, and as for Ra's...the degree in which he was used in Nolan's Batman Begins was a somewhat overexaggerted form of who Ra's Al Ghul is(he would never really leave the League and venture to Gotham over some fools crusade)...so if he was ever used in a movie...a few name drops and minor Arrow appearances wouldn't kill the character, especially considering the fact that Arrow has done wonders to bring new depths to The League of Assassins.

4) I am new to the forums so it is nice to see that people like you and I can converse our completely seperate opinions without it being an argument, so thank you.

1) You don't always talk about what your friends are going through (but sometimes you do), but when the stakes are high and you don't call in all your resources, you look like a jerk who'd rather do it himself than ask for hielp. We don't notice it because we grew up with that, but it's rather silly.

2) Yeah, he's awkward goofy, aloof. He's not the kid of the team, so Gustin would be an oddball in the cinematic universe. It's no coincidence that they get paid a lot more than he does too.

3) Arrow is building up Ra's to be a big bad in season 3. He's a full fledged character, and if it's the same universe, Snyder is bound to CW's Ra's, both story and casting. That's not a good idea.

4) Quite welcome.