Will people get over the super hate?

[Doc Samson]

People were not ready for a movie that really was not that good. Had the movie been better it would have been a success. It really is that simple.

I'm not so sure about that. There was a swarm of darker, gritty, more troubled superheroes making their way to the screen. Up until Captain America, there really wasn't any other "clean cut" superhero films period.

Part of the problem with Superman in general is that he can be somewhat of a bland character to write, for the unimaginative. SR wasn't horrible, it just wasn't really exciting, or bringing anything new to the table. TBH, MOS could wind up the same way, depending on how long they choose to retread his origin, which I think is a mistake personally.

Said it before, I'll say it again, humanizing Superman isn't really necessary to the point of re-doing the origin. No matter how long ago it was, the basic gist has always been the same, done ad nauseum in a movie most people consider a classic, then in even more detail for a series that was on TV for years. Snyder was presumably appointed the job because of his action expertise. MOS doesn't need to be devoid of emotion, story or plot. But Superman needs something new & fresh, and another origin might provoke the same exact sleep inducing response SR did, if they take too long with it.

 

[thegameq]

I really do believe that the problem with audiences perception of Superman is that they've been bombarded with this image of him as a Jesus allegory rather than straight superhero. Speaking for myself, I much prefer the idea that Jor-El randomly picked a planet that he knew his son could survive on and hoped for the best. Clark gets some great upbringing during his childhood and, after a little bit of soul searching, decides to help the world using his extraordinary powers.

Unfortunately, to me, DC/WB keeps making Jor-El a near omnipresent force in Clark's life and over emphasizes the idea that he was "destined" to do great things rather than deciding to be a superhero because he's just a genuinely good person.

Just my take.

A superb point. Less is more. They really need to drop the whole messiah thing. Just make him one of us. He was raised as a human so just leave it at that. Stop rehashing Krypton. He's the line survivor of a doomed planet-end story. Build on his character and relationships, not his heritage. Go forward not backwards.

I remember reading somewhere that writers keep rehashing Krypton because they felt it offered the only fertile ground left for the writers to explore.

 

[nogap87]

A superb point. Less is more. They really need to drop the whole messiah thing. Just make him one of us. He was raised as a human so just leave it at that. Stop rehashing Krypton. He's the line survivor of a doomed planet-end story. Build on his character and relationships, not his heritage. Go forward not backwards.

I remember reading somewhere that writers keep rehashing Krypton because they felt it offered the only fertile ground left for the writers to explore.

Exactly how I feel. I would love a scene like this in a Superman movie:

Spoiler

Superman saves the day but still comes off as just a cool, regular guy who wears a cape and has a peculiar sense of humor.

Instead of hovering above everyone with the sun in the background and emphasizing the fact he's a uber-powerful alien, make him a regular guy who just happens to be an uber-powerful alien that helps out where he can.

The only thing Clark needs to know about Krypton is that it blew up. The End. I wouldn't mind if Kryptonite didn't show up until after a few sequels since Singer shat all over it in SR.

 

[charl_huntress]

If at all, a minor part by now amongst the general entertainment public. And younger generations are less and less aware/interested in what may have been prevalent in the past.

lol...I fail to see how this can be true.

Young and old people put this on their body?

 

[KalMart]

They put a lot of things on their body, doesn't mean anything in this context, which you've failed to address. But cool tattoos.

 

[KalMart]

I really do believe that the problem with audiences perception of Superman is that they've been bombarded with this image of him as a Jesus allegory rather than straight superhero. Speaking for myself, I much prefer the idea that Jor-El randomly picked a planet that he knew his son could survive on and hoped for the best. Clark gets some great upbringing during his childhood and, after a little bit of soul searching, decides to help the world using his extraordinary powers.

Unfortunately, to me, DC/WB keeps making Jor-El a near omnipresent force in Clark's life and over emphasizes the idea that he was "destined" to do great things rather than deciding to be a superhero because he's just a genuinely good person.

Just my take.

As was alluded to before...in a lot of ways you could look at it as analogous to how awareness has moved outside of religion as times have progressed, too. God and religion aren't the only place to find morality, wonder or even spirituality as much as it was before...we know about science and evolution, and our real origins both Earthly and cosmically. Similarly, Superman isn't the end-all-to-be-all representation of what a superhero is anymore with newer characters and ways that the concept/format has evolved. Still a choice, sure, but not necessarily THE choice anymore.

 

[charl_huntress]

They put a lot of things on their body, doesn't mean anything in this context, which you've failed to address. But cool tattoos.

I actuallly was going to post something about a bunch of runners...young runners who put fake Superman tats on their body because they said that symbol represents strength. These girls...HS runners, were not even born during some of the most popular incarnations of Superman, but they still know the sheild.

I was addressing what you were saying about Superman not being relevant as an icon. Yet, it was made in an early post...so don't worry about it.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I'm sure it's been covered already by some but yes the superman shield is still a very a popular symbol but it's sort of taken a life of its own aside from superman.

Like you said it is often used by ppl to symbolize strength but i doubt the majority of those ppl using that symbol are actually superman fans. After 70+ years that symbol has been ingrained in pop culture but so has the mickey mouse symbol and mickey is not selling movies anymore.

 

[charl_huntress]

I'm sure it's been covered already by some but yes the superman shield is still a very a popular symbol but it's sort of taken a life of its own aside from superman.

Like you said it is often used by ppl to symbolize strength but i doubt the majority of those ppl using that symbol are actually superman fans. After 70+ years that symbol has been ingrained in pop culture but so has the mickey mouse symbol and mickey is not selling movies anymore.

I'm not saying they are. My response was more to the point of Superman NOT being a relevant icon. I don't think any and everyone who puts a on their body is a Superman fan. LOL...I am diehard fan and refuse to put any tattoos on my body. But, I do think Supes is very relevant today because of what he represents. That's why I adamantly feel the GP does not have Superhate for Superman. He truly does represent some great ideals. What's to hate?

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I have the Red Son symbol tattooed on my upper arm.

 

[Krumm]

I'm sure it's been covered already by some but yes the superman shield is still a very a popular symbol but it's sort of taken a life of its own aside from superman.

Like you said it is often used by ppl to symbolize strength but i doubt the majority of those ppl using that symbol are actually superman fans. After 70+ years that symbol has been ingrained in pop culture but so has the mickey mouse symbol and mickey is not selling movies anymore.

Yes, that is exactly part of the point. Superman is/was such a great pop culture icon that he has transcended himself. The symbol means more than he does know. I'm willing to bet that not as many people have Mickey Mouse tattooed on their body and those that do are actually fans of the character. This is not the case with Superman.

I would say that with this elevated pop status, a certain ignorance about him accompanies it because Superman isn't the reason that is on their body/t-shirt/car bumper etc. I thing ignorance is a part of the "super-hate," when it comes to the general public.

 

[ParkerPeters]

There is something to Superman. I am a Marvel fan boy to the bone, but I appreciate the history behind Superman... The public, however, does not. People can't see the same blue boyscout as every other Supes film, or they will stray away. They need to see the side of him that is more of an abandoned messiah. Someone willing to sacrifice what little he has to better us all, he needs to be the Spider-Man of the new DCU. Since he is so powerful, his super powers wont be interesting or very fun, but his personality and character arc can be. The Reeve Supes was good for his day, but now, he seems two dimensional, and unrelatable because he is so... Perfect. We need a Superman who doesn't just immediately become the man of steel. He needs to go on a journey and learn that we are who we choose to be, and that the choices we make can hurt others, and that sometimes our responsibilities are greater than we are, even for Superman.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

There is something to Superman. I am a Marvel fan boy to the bone, but I appreciate the history behind Superman... The public, however, does not. People can't see the same blue boyscout as every other Supes film, or they will stray away. They need to see the side of him that is more of an abandoned messiah. Someone willing to sacrifice what little he has to better us all, he needs to be the Spider-Man of the new DCU. Since he is so powerful, his super powers wont be interesting or very fun, but his personality and character arc can be. The Reeve Supes was good for his day, but now, he seems two dimensional, and unrelatable because he is so... Perfect. We need a Superman who doesn't just immediately become the man of steel. He needs to go on a journey and learn that we are who we choose to be, and that the choices we make can hurt others, and that sometimes our responsibilities are greater than we are, even for Superman.

No, it's his super-powers that will be the fun part. (Punching villains through skyscrapers, freezing something with his breath, moving faster than the speed of sound/light).

That's actually what people want very much to see. They understand the emotional aspect of the character, at least in general, and I think they're frustrated that since Superman is so powerful, we haven't witnessed a really good fight or action scene with him on the silver screen lately.

The whole "like me because I feel human emotions like you" route was done in SR. It's necessary, but without those good action scenes that can make the viewer feel like an astonished child, it's inadequate in and of itself.

Also.... Superman cannot be the Spider-Man of DC. There are parallels between the two characters, sure, but at the end of the day, people are going to feel cheated if you have Clark lamenting about his lack of pics for the Daily Planet, his formerly invulnerable cape suddenly becoming torn, or Ma Kent worrying about his safety.

 

[DeadPresident29]

No, it's his super-powers that will be the fun part. (Punching villains through skyscrapers, freezing something with his breath, moving faster than the speed of sound/light).

That's actually what people want very much to see. They understand the emotional aspect of the character, at least in general, and I think they're frustrated that since Superman is so powerful, we haven't witnessed a really good fight or action scene with him on the silver screen lately.

The whole "like me because I feel human emotions like you" route was done in SR. It's necessary, but without those good action scenes that can make the viewer feel like an astonished child, it's inadequate in and of itself.

Also.... Superman cannot be the Spider-Man of DC. There are parallels between the two characters, sure, but at the end of the day, people are going to feel cheated if you have Clark lamenting about his lack of pics for the Daily Planet, his formerly invulnerable cape suddenly becoming torn, or Ma Kent worrying about his safety.

Agree 100%, the action is what will get the general audience interested. A story as horrendously bad as the Transformers trilogy still made enormous amounts of money purely because "massive robots were blowing **** up". A full exploration of Superman's powers is very, very overdue.

 

[ParkerPeters]

I think that fight sequences and boss battles are one of the most important parts of a super hero flick. But without emotion, it might as well be Michael Bay at the helm.

Now, to have interesting boss fights, we need an equally powerful villain... We are confirmed for Zod, which is great, because Superman 2 is one of the best super hero movies around and my favorite Supes movie, because Zod can trash Superman any day, but how can they keep it up really? Fixing fault lines and throwing nukes into the sun was great in the 70's, but that wont fly in the post CBM revolution world we live in.

 

[Krumm]

Superman has plenty of powerful villains -- Metallo, Parasite, Doomsday, Darkseid, and even Lex Luthor is quite powerful if done correctly (just in an entirely different way).

 

[KalMart]

I actuallly was going to post something about a bunch of runners...young runners who put fake Superman tats on their body because they said that symbol represents strength.

Good thing you didn't, because it would have been just as off-the-mark..

I was addressing what you were saying about Superman not being relevant as an icon. Yet, it was made in an early post...so don't worry about it.

I wasn't saying he wasn't relevant at all...only that he was less so than in years past. So sleep well.

 

[KalMart]

I think that fight sequences and boss battles are one of the most important parts of a super hero flick. But without emotion, it might as well be Michael Bay at the helm.

Now, to have interesting boss fights, we need an equally powerful villain... We are confirmed for Zod, which is great, because Superman 2 is one of the best super hero movies around and my favorite Supes movie, because Zod can trash Superman any day, but how can they keep it up really? Fixing fault lines and throwing nukes into the sun was great in the 70's, but that wont fly in the post CBM revolution world we live in.

While I agree that personality and emotion are vital, it's what a Michael Bay would offer that I think many may feel what Superman needs the most these day...in terms of excitement and contemporary popular appeal. Luckily, I think Snyder is a good candidate to deliver that, despite some people's misgivings over his style-over-substance, uber-slo-mo, and so on. The hope is that the script that he was provided has a very good story that almost tells itself and that he sticks to it.

And yes, the action can't just be scaled to fit the physical strength of the characters...it takes some contemporary skill to make the stakes and danger something that we can feel immersed in as well. It can still have them handling missiles and things that we now normal humans can't do, but it needs a dynamic nature that very much in today's sensibilities with the added challenge of not just being a modern day Might Mouse. And yeah, blowing out fires and catching falling globes....the do need to try harder than that too.

 

[Sup3rman81]

I think that fight sequences and boss battles are one of the most important parts of a super hero flick. But without emotion, it might as well be Michael Bay at the helm.

Now, to have interesting boss fights, we need an equally powerful villain... We are confirmed for Zod, which is great, because Superman 2 is one of the best super hero movies around and my favorite Supes movie, because Zod can trash Superman any day, but how can they keep it up really? Fixing fault lines and throwing nukes into the sun was great in the 70's, but that wont fly in the post CBM revolution world we live in.

This wont be Superman and Zod from S2, this will be much better. Cavill is more Suerman's build than any of the other actors. Shannon is a great actor and will be the true evil Zod we know. I see Superman still holding back killing someone but I think his rage will overcome Zod and Faora. I think he will outsmart them and thats how he will prevail. I dont know if Snyder will use the PZ or not.

 

[ParkerPeters]

I guess we will just have to wait and see. I am very excited for this film. I just think it need something new, that the original Superman series didn't and couldn't offer

 

[charl_huntress]

I have the Red Son symbol tattooed on my upper arm.

t: I saw a photo of one when I was looking for tats...lol. I wonder if that was you Prime....lol

I have always loved the shield they used in STAS Brave New Metropolis. It's very similar to Red Son (maybe the same actually). If were to get a tat it would be that one. I like to be a little different.

Though I promised my father I would never mark my body...so no tats for me.

 

[charl_huntress]

Good thing you didn't, because it would have been just as off-the-mark..


I wasn't saying he wasn't relevant at all...only that he was less so than in years past. So sleep well.

lol...we disagree. No problem.

 

[KalMart]

lol...we disagree. No problem.

None at all.

I used to want to get the peanut butter when I was a kid because I liked the jar and didn't want to throw it away.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

I liked it in TAS where Jor-El was just a scientist desperate to save his son (and wife). Unlike in Smallville where he's manipulative and egotistical. Also, let's have a bit more of his mother, Lara this time around.
If Jor-El is responsible for Zod's imprisonment, then it should be that he testified against him in court and not that Jor-El is King Kryptron and he personally banishes Zod to the moon... I mean Phantom Zone.
Give Superman a sense of humor but keep him a boy scout. Some degree of naivety perhaps but Clark the reporter should have keen eyes and a sharp tongue to the point that Lois both hates and lovers her competition

Finally, I once imagined a Brianiac movie where Superman recovers a life pod from Brainiac's ship. It would contain the movie universe's Supergirl. Good idea?

 

[Rogue Kira]

Some will, others won't. It's as simple as that. (See my updated sig.)

how do you make a sig? i know i'm a noob lol