The Amazing Spider-Man Will this movie avoid being a retread of the First Spider-Man movie?

Again, Doctor Octopus was not a real villain. He was a nice guy who became evil when he went temporarily insane. He even regained his mind and benevolence in the end. Difference between that and a villain who has some positive traits. Now, Venom, he was a villain. A terribly lame one, but a villain. Raimi never used sympathetic villains, with the possible exception of Sandman (if you even consider him a real villain). For 1 and 2, he used decent people who went nuts.

Granted, I have no idea how the Lizard will be portrayed. But if he's another nice guy who is turned insane and evil by a science experiment gone wrong, he'll be the third such villain. Can they not write an actual sane, compelling villain who has positive traits?
Most of the Spidey rogue's gallery are a not evil guys who became evil/insane from some accident.

Ock, Green Goblin, Scorpion, Electro, Hydro-Man, Man-Wolf, Lizard, Morbius

Kraven isn't even technically evil...just insane.
 
Yah, when it comes to Green Goblin and Doc Ock, their angles in their respected films were perfectly fine. But when you do TOO much like Sandman for Spider-Man 3, then that calls for complaining. Doc Ock, as much as I didn't want him to be a sympathetic villain, it worked very well with Spider-Man 2 and it would only be awful if he returned.
 
Well it looks as if he is off to a bad start then.

Also...Norman was evil for the sake of being evil sooo:huh: Venom was evil for the sake of being evil:huh:

Wut?

Doc Ock wasn't supposed to be nor was Sandman.

The Lizard actually is a sympathetic villain, soooo:huh:
 
I'm not very happy however because alot seems to reminisc too much of the prior trilogy.

I want a grown up Spider-Man already. I want him to be in his mid 20s, semi confident, working for the Bugle, possibly sub teaching or something along those lines.

I really want a new trailer to put some shadow of mystery to rest. I really do.

that's what i wanted as well; Peter in his late 20s working as a professor or for the Bugle. seems very redundant and too soon to do another origin story. the only thing i'm looking forward to it is that Pete's parents will be in the film, but other than that there was no need for an origin.
 
I wouldn't mind. Spider-man has a rather boring origin story. They never even bother explaining what happened to the spider that bit him. Almost everyone knows what inevitably happens to Uncle Ben.

They will probably want to make more use of the high school dynamic however.
 
Wut?

Doc Ock wasn't supposed to be nor was Sandman.

The Lizard actually is a sympathetic villain, soooo:huh:

Dr. Octopus has been a semi sympathetic villain since the late 80s/early 90s.

Dr. Octopus tried to save Susan Richards unborn child, tried to be cure AIDS because his old girlfriend had AIDs, tried to save Aunt May from Hammerhead, saved some civilians from a collapsing building and many other good deeds mixed with his bad ones. Dr. Octopus hasn't been an "evil for evil's sake" for quite a while.

The problem with an "evil for evil's sake" villain is they can easily come across as silly, bland, cartoonish or one dimensional. The only way you can do that character right, is to have them do truly evil things or come off as really sinister and creepy. That's why I didn't like Movie Red Skull, he was evil for evil's sake, but unlike his comic book counter part he didn't commit any truly evil acts. Comic book Red Skull is pure evil, movie Red Skull is a cliched, generic megalomaniac. Sebastian Shaw and TDK Joker, those guys came off as truly evil.

I hate villains who are evil for evil's sake, but don't do anything more sinister then rob banks, those characters are just bland and not threatening. If Dr. Octopus is going to be "an evil for evil's sake" villain he better be sinister and scary rather than cartoonish and bland.
 
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I think this new spidey series is gonna give us a more darker tone:

-GG with a latex mask that shows the actor's expressions and this GG will actually kill spidey's first love.

-the symbiote that makes spidey evil and not goofy,and a suit that looks like the comics.

Just some examples...
 
I don't see what they did wrong with Red Skull, he was a bit underdeveloped, but there really are evil megalomaniacs. He was from Nazi-era Germany. It's practically a requirement.

I like Dr. Octopus as a villain with class. In the Spectacular Spider-man show, they pull that off quite well. He even stops Rhino from running down Aunt May. But he's still evil.

But you do have sociopaths in real life. Some villains are just evil for the sake of being evil
 
The problem with an "evil for evil's sake" villain is they can easily come across as silly, bland, cartoonish or one dimensional. The only way you can do that character right, is to have them do truly evil things or come off as really sinister and creepy. That's why I didn't like Movie Red Skull, he was evil for evil's sake, but unlike his comic book counter part he didn't commit any truly evil acts. Comic book Red Skull is pure evil, movie Red Skull is a cliched, generic megalomaniac. Sebastian Shaw and TDK Joker, those guys came off as truly evil.

I hate villains who are evil for evil's sake, but don't do anything more sinister then rob banks, those characters are just bland and not threatening. If Dr. Octopus is going to be "an evil for evil's sake" villain he better be sinister and scary rather than cartoonish and bland.

They can make them evil for the sake of being evil...without making it come off as cartoony.

They don't have to give them a soppy ******** back-story to make them sympathetic.

Although Doc Ock in S-M 2 did work.
 
I don't see what they did wrong with Red Skull, he was a bit underdeveloped, but there really are evil megalomaniacs. He was from Nazi-era Germany. It's practically a requirement.



Except Red Skull in that film wasn't a Nazi, so he was far less scary and sinister then comic book Red Skull. Red Skull's motive in the comics was more about malice and hatred then just acquiring power for its own sake. Red Skull in the comics wanted power to further his grudge against the world and would commit cruel and sadistic acts that didn't bring him power but brought him joy because he enjoyed hurting people. That is more interesting then movie red Skull who wanted power because he is the villain in the movie. Both are "evil" but comic book Red Skull comes off as truly evil, while movie Red Skull is a generic evil villain, he was bargain bin James Bond villain lacking the sinister aspects of his comic book counterparts.

Movie Sebastian Shaw is a far more evil villain than movie Red Skull and Shaw wasn't the focus of First Class, he just had more impressive evil deeds. Red Skull in the movie didn't necessarily need more development, but he needed to something far more evil then what he did in the film. He never had that moment that made him truly detestable, instead he was just forgettable, not sympathetic, but nothing about him was scary either. Red Skull should truly evil and he wasn't in that film.


I like Dr. Octopus as a villain with class. In the Spectacular Spider-man show, they pull that off quite well. He even stops Rhino from running down Aunt May. But he's still evil.

That could work depending how its handled.

But you do have sociopaths in real life. Some villains are just evil for the sake of being evil

And if that's done wrong, the villain comes off as the type of villains seen in 80s cartoons, one dimensional and not threatening. For that type of villain to be threatening, they have to do really evil things, that's hat makes them stand out from some villain who is "generic evil".

They can make them evil for the sake of being evil...without making it come off as cartoony.

They don't have to give them a soppy ******** back-story to make them sympathetic.

Although Doc Ock in S-M 2 did work.

Again Doc Ock has been sympathetic for almost 3 decades now in the comics.

Besides how evil would you want Doc Ock to be a movie? How evil would his actions be? Would he be a complete monster with extremely evil acts that makes him detestable?

I think evil is a powerful word that often gets misused in modern society. When I think of evil, I think of the most terrible acts a human being can commit, not some doofus in spandex who robs banks. That's why you have to be careful with an "evil for evil's sake" type villain, because I only think they work when they are doing something nightmarish and terrifying or at least be creepy and unsettling.
 
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Again Doc Ock has been sympathetic for almost 3 decades now in the comics.

Besides how evil would you want Doc Ock to be a movie? How evil would his actions be? Would he be a complete monster with extremely evil acts that makes him detestable?

So? He wasn't originally a sympathetic villain, was he? So why can't they use him how he was originally conceived?

And yes, I should think so. Something along the lines of Ultimate Doc Ock.

Not all versions of Doc Ock are sympathetic, if I want to think of an evil version, the Ultimate version comes to mind now.

EDIT: And why are we stuck on Doc Ock, again? I said he did work, but having at least one sympathetic villain in almost every movie got boring.

If they do plan to use him again, I hope they use his Ultimate characterization.
 
Wut?

Doc Ock wasn't supposed to be nor was Sandman.

The Lizard actually is a sympathetic villain, soooo:huh:
You said that you hope Webb doesn't use sympathetic villains in every movie...I said that he's off to a bad start then....because he's using a sympathetic villain.

Then...your examples against Raimi was 2 sympathetic villains? Out of 4? Ohkay.
 
My statement was meant to be sarcarstic.

Jokes about the 'The Untold Story' is...

:bdh:

You said that you hope Webb doesn't use sympathetic villains in every movie...I said that he's off to a bad start then....because he's using a sympathetic villain.

Then...your examples against Raimi was 2 sympathetic villains? Out of 4? Ohkay.

Some fans were THAT upset of the change of Sandman that was unnecessary. For Doc Ock, it WORKED for Spider-Man 2. Flint's change to a sympathetic villain did not work for Spider-Man 3. Lizard being a sympathetic villain works obviously, but I sincerely hope Webb doesn't change the nature of a villain that should have a "bad guy" stance and not flip it around, such as Raimi did with Sandy.
 
You said that you hope Webb doesn't use sympathetic villains in every movie...I said that he's off to a bad start then....because he's using a sympathetic villain.

Then...your examples against Raimi was 2 sympathetic villains? Out of 4? Ohkay.

Meh. Not off to a bad start, tbh, the Lizard actually is a sympathetic villain to start off with... not to mention he fits in with the whole "Everybody's has a missing piece" theme that this movie has, so he works.

If he used one in the sequel, then yes, it would be kinda crappy.

And yep. 2 villains out of 4.

Doc Ock was the only sympathetic one that worked. Sandman's story was pathetic.
 
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Some fans were THAT upset of the change of Sandman that was unnecessary. For Doc Ock, it WORKED for Spider-Man 2. Flint's change to a sympathetic villain did not work for Spider-Man 3. Lizard being a sympathetic villain works obviously, but I sincerely hope Webb doesn't change the nature of a villain that should have a "bad guy" stance and not flip it around, such as Raimi did with Sandy.

:up:
 
Jokes about the 'The Untold Story' is...

:bdh:



Some fans were THAT upset of the change of Sandman that was unnecessary. For Doc Ock, it WORKED for Spider-Man 2. Flint's change to a sympathetic villain did not work for Spider-Man 3. Lizard being a sympathetic villain works obviously, but I sincerely hope Webb doesn't change the nature of a villain that should have a "bad guy" stance and not flip it around, such as Raimi did with Sandy.

Again Sandman has been a sympathetic villain in the comics since the 70s. Its not the fact that Sandman was sympathetic in the movie that was the problem, its how it was handled. Apparently the Sandman story was much better written in an earlier draft of the film.
 
I mean, if you really want to use a character and make him sympathetic, you'd have to do a stand-up job in doing so. Doc Ock wasn't very hard to make for S-M 2, but it would take a lot of time and effort to do that with just any villain you pick. For Sandman, Raimi didn't know how to do it, but you can tell he at least tried, but the effort was sloppy.
 
Again Sandman has been a sympathetic villain in the comics since the 70s. Its not the fact that Sandman was sympathetic in the movie that was the problem, its how it was handled. Apparently the Sandman story was much better written in an earlier draft of the film.

That's what I am referring to. Read my next to last post.

And Sandman was, I guess, supposed to be sympathetic and work as Vulture's "puppet". Who knows if that would have worked. It could have.

But the general idea of Sandman is him being a thug, although TSSM showed how one could make him sympathetic and it would have worked. That "Big Steps" episode, or something like that, showed how Sandman could be a sympathetic villain.
 
Like doc ock. He is supposed to be an EVIL-genious

I think that's a gross oversimplification of the character that makes Doctor Octopus into a rather bland villain, in my opinion. There's more to Ock than his pride, his gut, and his tentacles.
 
I'll always want to see peter in high school, that's how I imagine him. spidey's best stories are when he was in high school, virtually his entire rogues gallery was introduced in high school (well not venom and carnage but who cares about them?) most of his supporting cast was introduced in high school.
 
I'll always want to see peter in high school, that's how I imagine him. spidey's best stories are when he was in high school, virtually his entire rogues gallery was introduced in high school (well not venom and carnage but who cares about them?) most of his supporting cast was introduced in high school.

Actually, most of his most notable supporting cast members (or at least many of them) weren't introduced until Peter was in college, including Mary Jane Watson, Harry Osborn, and Gwen Stacy.
 
I'll always want to see peter in high school, that's how I imagine him. spidey's best stories are when he was in high school, virtually his entire rogues gallery was introduced in high school (well not venom and carnage but who cares about them?) most of his supporting cast was introduced in high school.

Almost the entire Spider-Man fanbase.... (even though I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic. :oldrazz:)
 
High school is a double edged sword. While it does allow for them to focus on Peter and his social life more, it can become a burden. Especially since, high schools tend to be full of insufferable people (also known as teenagers). Also, Spider-man will have to keep his eye on the time at all times. Though that could add for some good tension if done right.
 

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