Superman Returns With SR's dissapointing Box Office, is the "Geek Golden Age" over?

[The Riddler]

it isn't over yet, because spidey 3 is going to destroy the box office next year.

it's just over for superman returns.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

I apologize if this turns into a rant...

At times I'm fed up with some of these directors of certain films. Granted a lot of them have gotten it right these days. Christopher Nolan, Robert Rodriguez the list goes on.... I hate directors who want to totally take the a character into left field just for the sake of being different. They act like making a "comic book film" is going to put a stigma on them or something so they have to make it artsy or some crap like that. Just do your homework on the character, make a few tweaks if you need to, and go make a solid film. Bryan Singer films (X-men, Supes) just annoy the hell out of me at times. Instead of trying to root everything in realism just go make the bloody film.

at least you knew to apologize in advance.

 

[freemind1969]

What we're seeing is comic book genre movies getting pushed to near extremes of a broad spectrum. On one side, melodrama-heavy explorations of hero psyche; and on the other side vapid kids stuff. Its likely that somewhere inbetween lies the successful comic-book movie. Thats why Spider-man is so successful. Timing is everything- and Raimi's movies seem to get this.

SR is virtually devoid of any action whatsoever in the last 25 minutes, inducing yawns from the audience (at both of my veiwings) not out of rudeness but by reflex. To me, the movie crescendoed an hour or so earlier during the plane sequence. IMO, the rest of the movie should have the intent of topping (or at least equalling) that moment: saving Metropolis/catching the globe just didn't cut the mustard somehow. The movie seems to make a slow descent to a dead stop afterwards.
Bottom line: Give us drama through relatable characters, make us believe your world, but don't leave out the fun.

As far the "GEEK GOLDEN AGE" being over: DON'T BET ON IT. More movies like Sin City and Sky Captain (a geek love letter to Fliesher animation) are being made using technology which will open up brand new possibilities for our genre films. Just wait till Cameron's AVATAR and BATTLE ANGEL is all I'm sayin.

peace, Geeks.

 

[Lestat74]

Maybe It's just the DC Comics films I should be concerned about. As I've stated before, I'm concerned that Superman Returns underperforming will seriously curtail any future good DC films ( with the obvious exception to Batman Begins 2 or whatever they'll end up calling it ) I totally see Warners starting to micro manage Wonder Woman and Flash and outright cancel The Watchmen ( I've already heard from friends in the industry that all the Watchmen meetings involve some suit saying "Can't we change the ending? Make it happy?" ugh) Still, since Superman will have a final Box Office tally around what Batman did, they'll hopefully proceed but maybe have smaller budgets.

So odd how things can change in a blink of an eye...wasn't it just a few weeks ago everyone was elated with all the great reviews Superman was getting? And in no time the fanboys have turned on it like a pack of rabid dogs. Which just makes me sad cuz I thought the film was so beautiful. Oh well.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

You should be worried about Marvel, too. They aren't doing much better. Spiderman is their only solid franchise, as they already screwed up Blade. They are re-doing Hulk. Fantastic Four has EVERYTHING going against it as they make their way to their sequel. Punisher has no legs. Daredevil 2 is most likely not going to happen. We better hope Ghost Rider is good. X-Men is OVER. The spin-offs...who cares about those, really?

It'd be wise if Warner used the same system for creating Batman Begins as a standard for making ALL of the DC properties. If they did, Singer would've never gotten away with Superman Returns. There'd be no talk of a lighthearted Green Lantern romp.

And for the record, The Watchmen is a really, really tough act to pull off in even 3 hours. Granted, I know they can do some movie magic and condense it, but...I just don't have a lot of high hopes for that one, as much faith in Zak Snyder as I have. (300 is looking to be really good, even though I hate 'green screen' films).

The Geek Golden Age is over before it really ever got going. You can thank Hollywood and the suits for that.

 

[Lestat74]

You should be worried about Marvel, too. They aren't doing much better. Spiderman is their only solid franchise, as they already screwed up Blade. They are re-doing Hulk. Fantastic Four has EVERYTHING going against it as they make their way to their sequel. Punisher has no legs. Daredevil 2 is most likely not going to happen. We better hope Ghost Rider is good. X-Men is OVER. The spin-offs...who cares about those, really?

It'd be wise if Warner used the same system for creating Batman Begins as a standard for making ALL of the DC properties. If they did, Singer would've never gotten away with Superman Returns. There'd be no talk of a lighthearted Green Lantern romp.

And for the record, The Watchmen is a really, really tough act to pull off in even 3 hours. Granted, I know they can do some movie magic and condense it, but...I just don't have a lot of high hopes for that one, as much faith in Zak Snyder as I have. (300 is looking to be really good, even though I hate 'green screen' films).

The Geek Golden Age is over before it really ever got going. You can thank Hollywood and the suits for that.

Well, in all honesty, after Spidey, X-Men, Hulk, FF and Daredevil, the only real Marvel Tentpole characters left are Iron Man, Captain America and Thor. after that it's all second string. As for DC, really, their only viable options for super hero movies that are left are Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern and The Watchmen ( because of it's incredible prestige as the Citizen Kane of Super Hero fiction ) Really, in terms of Super heroes, that's all they have really. Nightwing, Robin, Catwoman are best used in future Bat sequels, and the likes of Green Arrow and Hawkman have only sporadically been able to hold their own books for any period of time, much less a big budget film. Of course, DC has Vertigo to fall back on, but those movies will not really be viewed as "comic book movies" to the masses, just sci-fi/fantasy because to them, comics=Super Heroes.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Good points, Lestat.

Let's just pray that, as we wind down on Superhero films (for this generation), they begin to get them more right than wrong.

 

[D-Bone]

Well, in all honesty, after Spidey, X-Men, Hulk, FF and Daredevil, the only real Marvel Tentpole characters left are Iron Man, Captain America and Thor. after that it's all second string. As for DC, really, their only viable options for super hero movies that are left are Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern and The Watchmen ( because of it's incredible prestige as the Citizen Kane of Super Hero fiction ) Really, in terms of Super heroes, that's all they have really. Nightwing, Robin, Catwoman are best used in future Bat sequels, and the likes of Green Arrow and Hawkman have only sporadically been able to hold their own books for any period of time, much less a big budget film. Of course, DC has Vertigo to fall back on, but those movies will not really be viewed as "comic book movies" to the masses, just sci-fi/fantasy because to them, comics=Super Heroes.

And I think for DC, the only ones that can work on screen are Wonder Woman and The Flash.
I love Green Lantern, but I still think that his power ring will just not translate well to a live action feature. Not without it being Flash Gordon-style camp or just simply unwatchable.
I realize that with CGI you can emulate some of the things the ring can do from the comics, but funnily enough, it's going to end up coming off more like The Mask (the Jim Carrey flick).
The superhero abilities that usually translate the best to film are the ones that aren't as abstract or all powerful. The more limited the abilities of a hero, the better the film, and the greater the suspense (see the Spidey flicks).

 

[Kvott]

Just wanted to point out that the box office problem is with this movie and not with Superhero movies in general. Superman Returns just wasn't interesting. Some of the other posters mentioned Spiderman 3. You just wait. Sam Rami can really make a good flick. I'm not a Brian Singer fan. (Yes, I wish he hadn't made the 1st two X-men movies).

 

[Milkman95]

Just wanted to point out that the box office problem is with this movie and not with Superhero movies in general. Superman Returns just wasn't interesting. Some of the other posters mentioned Spiderman 3. You just wait. Sam Rami can really make a good flick. I'm not a Brian Singer fan. (Yes, I wish he hadn't made the 1st two X-men movies).

To me, it's more the character than the film. Both you and The Riddler are wrong. The evidence comes from it's disappointing numbers from it's opening week.

POTC3 will destroy Spider-man 3 by the way, which is ridiculous since both the POTC films are nothing special at all.

 

[dpm07]

To me, it's more the character than the film. Both you and The Riddler are wrong. The evidence comes from it's disappointing numbers from it's opening week.

POTC3 will destroy Spider-man 3 by the way, which is ridiculous since both the POTC films are nothing special at all.

You can't say someone is wrong in their opinion, anymore than you can say you are right. This is not absolute. The only facts that are evident is that SR is getting blown out of the water because its not resonating with the fans. This is fact at the box office. As for the POTC films not being special, that also is a falsehood. The fact that they have done so well, illustrates that their is something that is appealing or special about them that separates them from the other films.

Will Spiderman 3 or POTC 3 trump one or the other? I don't know. Both films will likely due well, but I don't stay as absolute one will destroy the other. That's not a true statement.

Oh, btw, I wouldn't move to OH. Maybe South Bend to be closer to ND as I'm a big fan, but not to OH.

 

[Darknightnomis]

Great Post. But A little premature.

So to answer your question, No it's not' s over. We're still in the middle of the "Golden Age" of comic book movies.

Superman Returns Box office may not be stellar or even somewhat embarrasing compared to POTC2 history making opening, But it's not the end of this era.

Superman will make it money back before the end of it's run, and even if it has to be in it's worldwide intake and not just domestically, as well as in DVD sells.

However, and even if it doesn't it does not mean it's the end of Hollwood making superhero movies that most of us more "mature geeks" only dreamed about in the '80s and '90s.

The Bottom line in Hollywood is the box office return, and even the comic book movies that may not be a critical or fan success (Hulk, Dardevil, Fantastic Four) in general they are still Hollywood "Blockbusters i.e. earning over 100 million. And this not including DVD sales.

The reason it's not over is the general interest is still high for upcoming superhero movies (Spidey 3, Batman "continues", IronMan, etc.) among people who are not "comic book geeks".

You want to get into a good, even heated water cooler conversation at the office, just bring up who you think should play the Joker in the sequel to 'Batman Begins' or why is Spidey wearing that black suit.

Bascially what I'm saying that the interest of these type of movies have reached the interest beyond people like us to the adverage movie goer and that is the reason why it's not over yet.

And even if the adverage moviegoer interest begin to wane on this genre of movies (which they eventually will) there is still enough of us, the comic book "geek", that will make sure that Hollywod will make enough money to continue to make these type of movies, albeit maybe less of them in a year's time.

 

[Milkman95]

You can't say someone is wrong in their opinion, anymore than you can say you are right. This is not absolute. The only facts that are evident is that SR is getting blown out of the water because its not resonating with the fans. This is fact at the box office. As for the POTC films not being special, that also is a falsehood. The fact that they have done so well, illustrates that their is something that is appealing or special about them that separates them from the other films.

Will Spiderman 3 or POTC 3 trump one or the other? I don't know. Both films will likely due well, but I don't stay as absolute one will destroy the other. That's not a true statement.

Oh, btw, I wouldn't move to OH. Maybe South Bend to be closer to ND as I'm a big fan, but not to OH.

Notre Dame is bad enough, but not as bad as Ohio, so good luck....

As far as the POTC films go, it's my opinion that they're nothing special. It's baffling to me that they're doing so well, but that's just me.

 

[fanboyhunter]

I think with the underwhelming Box Office of SR, we may be seeing an end to the "Geek Golden Age" we've been so lucky to live in. I'm 32 years old, and I remember back in the 80's and most of the 90's, all the fanboy "dream projects" were just that...unlikely figments of our imaginations. The Lord of the Rings was deemed "unfilmable". George Lucas had moved on from Star Wars, it was over. We kept reading about potential movie versions of our beloved comic books in the pages of Wizard Magazine and before that, Amazing Heroes ( yeah, I go back that far...sue me, I'm old ) But they never happened. All we got were campier and campier seuqels to Batman an childish tripe like Steel and Spawn.

And then the Matrix happened. And then the idea that a sci fi "comic book" movie ( in theme if not in fact ) could be great and commercially succesful wasn't a crazy one anymore. Then X-men happened, and instead of making it another campfest, Fox got Bryan Singer, an actual director with pedigree, to make a real film out of a comic book. Then Sam Raimi's Spider-Man films went through the roof. Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings proved that not only was it filmable, it could be made into a damn fine series of films. Even Hulk, while dissapointing in many ways, dared to treat the subject matter with seriousness. Sure, there were dissapointments...the new Star Wars trilogy couldn't compare to the originals, and Fantastic Four and Daredevil weren't what I'd call Oscar quality, and that's putting it mildly. But they happened. The idea that there would even be a Fantastic Four movie and a Daredevil movie would have been a pipe dream when I was a kid. ( And I'll go as far as saying both those movies are better than just about any of the 90's super hero films ) Sometimes I still can't believe they made a Hellboy film. Who whould have thought that back in the day?? And Batman Begins once again proved a comic book movie could be made with the same quality and integrety as any Oscar nominated film. And because of that, Warners trusted Bryan Singer to make a Superman movie with the same seriousness as Nolan gave Batman.

But now it looks like that gamble has not paid off, and I'm pretty sure that the suits at all the studios are gonna balk at more adult oriented takes on Super Heroes, especially with more family oriented stuff like Pirates gobbling up everything else around them. This bodes ill for those of us who were excited about seeing real quality films made out of comics. Warners has got to be freaking out about Wonder Woman, Flash and especially the Watchmen right now. And Jack Black should be getting a call anyday now for a more Comedic family friendly Green Lantern *shudder*

One good thing is that Marvel is in control of their further movie output, so hopefully they won't let anyone dumb them down. But even they are gonna feel the pressure to do so now.

But in any event, this really was a "golden age" for us geeks in many ways, maybe we should have appreciated it more while we had it. We all knew it had to end sometime.

Discuss....

Don't mean to pile on with praise, yet I too think that was a great post, and I had tried to make that same post a while back, like you being in my early to mid 30's and sitting through the old live action tv versions of Spiderman, Captain America etc...I felt that stepping back and "marveling" at were these films have gone from where they were in the mid to late 70's to now was pretty amazing. I tend to think we look at these films slightly differently than most of the younger stud and stud "ettes" that may populate these boards. I think in my head I've reconciled that these films are "ADAPTATIONS" and it's going to be hit or miss on casting, story and so on. Comic book fans are a "set" group and I don't think these movies are being made specifically to apease us 1st and foremost. (studios and actors say that but, what else are they suppose to say) The casual movie fans, and the 5-12 yr olds who are going to want to go back to see the films over and buy everything associated with it are the targets. I think that we are the ones who need to reasses out POV on things. I assume that most will agree that there has been more "misses" than "hits". So I don't know if our so-called power to make it better is as strong as some may give themselves credit for. If worst comes to worst, is it so bad to go back to to those bury your head in the comics and wish days. Again great post.

 

[covenant]

You can't say someone is wrong in their opinion, anymore than you can say you are right. This is not absolute. The only facts that are evident is that SR is getting blown out of the water because its not resonating with the fans. This is fact at the box office.

LOL. You did exactly what he did. The only fact is the box office is at about 150mil. Everything after that is opinion and perspectives colored by your world view. Not resonating with the fans is your opinion.

 

[knightofistari]

The only thing that went wrong here was that Singer had no idea what WE wanted, just what HE wanted and that always fails a movie.

I wish some of you guys would come over to kryptonsite.com and join the forum. Almost everyone over there is is gushing about the movie and incredibly defensive with no real thought into what Singer did with this movie. Every time I bring something up they shoot me down or just stop talking to me.

 

[Uncanny]

Just wanted to point out that the box office problem is with this movie and not with Superhero movies in general. Superman Returns just wasn't interesting. Some of the other posters mentioned Spiderman 3. You just wait. Sam Rami can really make a good flick. I'm not a Brian Singer fan. (Yes, I wish he hadn't made the 1st two X-men movies).

Not a good movie at all.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I just don't understand all this doom and gloom for comicbook movies because of one disappointment. Comicbook movies will be fine, if Spider-Man 3 doesn't fail. Lucky for us I don't think thats going to happen, I think that Raimi is a good enough director to make a decent enough 3rd.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

No, ther are SEVERAL disappointments. The past new wave of comic book films have yielded *very few* classics, my friend.

 

[Milkman95]

I just don't understand all this doom and gloom for comicbook movies because of one disappointment. Comicbook movies will be fine, if Spider-Man 3 doesn't fail. Lucky for us I don't think thats going to happen, I think that Raimi is a good enough director to make a decent enough 3rd.

There's doom and gloom because most of them ARE disappointing. It seems the only films that have scored most recently across the board are the Spider-man films, the first 2 X-Men films, and Batman Begins. The rest of them the fanbase has been pretty shaky...........

 

[Red Mask]

Just wait till Cameron's AVATAR and BATTLE ANGEL is all I'm sayin.

peace, Geeks.

Anime already rules. No worries there.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

The failure of one film doesn't dictate the course of an entire genre.

Granted, we've had a string of box-office dissapointments in the CBM industry. But we've also had some astounding successes, right up to the most recent release with X-Men: The Last Stand. Spider-Man 3 will likely carry on that trend, and it remains to be seen what Fantastic Four & The Silver Surfer will accomplish.

There's still room for growth, despite what's happened with Superman Returns.

 

[Milkman95]

The failure of one film doesn't dictate the course of an entire genre.

Granted, we've had a string of box-office dissapointments in the CBM industry. But we've also had some astounding successes, right up to the most recent release with X-Men: The Last Stand. Spider-Man 3 will likely carry on that trend, and it remains to be seen what Fantastic Four & The Silver Surfer will accomplish.

There's still room for growth, despite what's happened with Superman Returns.

And let's take a look back at this, SR is still going to end up within the Top 8 or 10 comic movie films of all time in terms of gross. It's not like it's a failure, just a disappointment since the expectations were so high after all these years of false starts as well as the money involved.

Spider-man 3 will be huge, no doubt. The Batman Begins sequel should by highly anticipated as well. It's films like Ghost Rider and Iron-Man that might not do as well based on not being known as much. FF and the SS should do well - the question is, can it carry itself further this time with a better finished product?

 

[Spare-Flair]

Hardly, X-Men 3 was a huge hit at the box office. Spider-Man 3 will absolutely destroy the box office given the numbers and momentum of the first two and the crazy buss about #3 that's a year ahead. I think it will be getting near POTC 2 numbers.

LOTR was still a major hit in theatres. Batman Begins was solid and it's sequel will have better numbers. Heck, there's even a new Star Trek movie in the works.

My point is that it's arrogant to pin everything on Superman - to believe that he's the standard of the industry is a mistake that is a little arrogant and maybe one that Singer made when he believed he couldn't go wrong with Superman.

The world does not revolve around Superman (although he can make it revolve any way he wants if done right ). It's silly to believe that Superman failing is a benchmark for geekdom or the industry. Is it nothing but an indicator of sloppiness, wasted money, arrogance, misdirection, bad ideas, and a director with too many ill preconceptions and loyalty to a decades old franchise to begin with...thusly the filmed offered no innovation and it offered no new heights to soar to.

 

[Lestat74]

Wow, It seems like no matter what the initial post is about, It just turns into a Superman Returns hate-fest. I think it will always baffle me how such a beautiful film inspires such animosity. I remember not that many yeas ago reading about the JJ Abrams script where Krypton didn't explode, where Kal-El had an evil relative, and where Lex was also from Krypton. And the suit came out of a can. Instead we get a movie that plays off a classic interpretation that most people love and all there is is hate. It kinda makes me sad.