Comics Wizard #204 Spidey (BND) Debate Article

[Themanofbat]

It's all good and fun to say that Joe has to follow orders and all TMOB, and i agree with you in general principle....HOWEVER....for over two years I've read all the Joe quotes and snippets everywhere, how he can't sleep at night due to thinking about having them married and all the other nonsense he personally shared about his life and thoughts about marriage.

Not ONCE have i read or seen any proof that the board of directors mandated to Joe a "single spider-man".

Many boards do dictate and micromanage their managers and so on,...while there are just as many boards who let their bosses make the decisions and dn't care just so the bottom line line of the company isn't suffering..or then they'd get involved.

So, when i talk about Joe...i am talking about the TON of stuff he has personally related to anti-marriage the past years.

And yes, previous EIC's and writers have also wanted a single spider-man.
But i have heard others support the marriage also in the past and present.

I have NOTHING to go by, in stating this is the BOARDS fault, as you say....because there is no proof of that...only speculation on our parts. Who really knows if they care one way or another on it. I doubt the board members give a fig about what hero is married or which is single, which one flys, or which one enjoys ice cream.

Back to the poll...........I wonder if BND has sullied and ruined the opinions of for those that were pro-mechanical web-shooters previously to the point that now people would rather just go back and have the organics?

Well, I know we haven't heard any concrete "proof" of what the Marvel BoD want... but we do know that there was a 6 month mandate to get a single Spider-Man back in the early stages of 1994 when we first saw Ben Reilly, which may have merely been an editorial mandate of that day as well... but I would like to think that if I were on Marvel BoD, I would want to make sure that if my creative teams decide to do anything "radical" to our flagship character, they'd have to get our approval first.

And yeah, the web-shooter/organic poll really surprised me as well... makes me wonder if many readers/poll answerers are "movie" Spider-Man fans...

 

[USMC]

I find the people that want Aunt May to die to be cold and heartless...

She's fictional.

 

[Donald Thomas]

Well, I know we haven't heard any concrete "proof" of what the Marvel BoD want... but we do know that there was a 6 month mandate to get a single Spider-Man back in the early stages of 1994 when we first saw Ben Reilly, which may have merely been an editorial mandate of that day as well... but I would like to think that if I were on Marvel BoD, I would want to make sure that if my creative teams decide to do anything "radical" to our flagship character, they'd have to get our approval first.

And yeah, the web-shooter/organic poll really surprised me as well... makes me wonder if many readers/poll answerers are "movie" Spider-Man fans...

Aloha,
You know they are.For all the good the 3 movies did for the franchise Spider-Man, they did great damage to the comic book direction(organics SUCK). Glad JoeQ at least took a stand(after the money came in) and decided that the movies would not dictate the comic books.WE HOPE!
Spidey rules

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh, who knows the reason why there was more support for organic shooters in the Wizard Poll.

I mean, pretty much any spidey fan has seen the movies, so i don't think it is that, especially since i had seen polls on that pre-BND and there was a stronger support for mechanical.

This seems more like an post-BND opinion to me. People maybe upset with how the status quo is pushed in their face and he is out of fluid every issue it seemed...?

Of course, there is no proof for sure either way.

The fact that people are mostly not happy with BND and the break-up with the marriage is as strong as ever and that polls elsewhere in the past showed also. Those are still running the same, if not stronger.

Marvel shouldn't make decisions based on polls per say....BUT....if your customers like a certain product a certain way, it is wise to give them the product they want too. Again...New Coke and changing it back to Coca Cola Classic the best example. Coke didn't tell the customers they were wrong to not like the new flavor and they didn't tell their customers this was better regardless of what they wanted.

 

[Styleshift]

Aloha,
You know they are.For all the good the 3 movies did for the franchise Spider-Man, they did great damage to the comic book direction(organics SUCK). Glad JoeQ at least took a stand(after the money came in) and decided that the movies would not dictate the comic books.WE HOPE!
Spidey rules

I feel the problem is that the movies tried to make Peter a bit....too normal.

I think eliminating the webshooters was a VERY big mistake.
not because I'm a fanboy though,
I understand peter is an "everyman" type hero but at the same time he DOES have aspects about himself that make him stand out....

mainly his brain and his quips....which were both mysteriously missing from the movie.

I also felt Peter got beat up a bit waaaay too often...it's ok for the villians to school him in their first appearance but i want to see pete use his brain to defeat them.

End of rant. lol

Yeh, who knows the reason why there was more support for organic shooters in the Wizard Poll.

I mean, pretty much any spidey fan has seen the movies, so i don't think it is that, especially since i had seen polls on that pre-BND and there was a stronger support for mechanical.

This seems more like an post-BND opinion to me. People maybe upset with how the status quo is pushed in their face and he is out of fluid every issue it seemed...?

Of course, there is no proof for sure either way.

The fact that people are mostly not happy with BND and the break-up with the marriage is as strong as ever and that polls elsewhere in the past showed also. Those are still running the same, if not stronger.

Marvel shouldn't make decisions based on polls per say....BUT....if your customers like a certain product a certain way, it is wise to give them the product they want too. Again...New Coke and changing it back to Coca Cola Classic the best example. Coke didn't tell the customers they were wrong to not like the new flavor and they didn't tell their customers this was better regardless of what they wanted.

hmmm I know plenty of fans that actually thought organic webs were better because mechanical webs were "stupid".

.....i have no idea why.
every other incarnation had him shooting mechanical webs. its like taking batmans cape and giving him real wings.

 

[Infidel]

The problem with Ultimate is that it's not 'The' Spider-man to us Older fans. Maybe not even some of the new ones. We want to read 'The' Spider-man, not an alternate reality version even if it is as good as Ultimate is. Then they have the Green Goblin as an actual Goblin. hmmm.

 

[Styleshift]

The problem with Ultimate is that it's not 'The' Spider-man to us Older fans. Maybe not even some of the new ones. We want to read 'The' Spider-man, not an alternate reality version even if it is as good as Ultimate is. Then they have the Green Goblin as an actual Goblin. hmmm.

Nah, When it comes to Ultimate Spider-man they are ALOT more honest.
It hasn't been bogged down like crazy with events "THAT WILL ROCK THE CORE OF THE SPIDER-UNIVERSE". It is a new interpretation of the Spidey mythos, once you realize that its not bothersome and is quite interesting. i agree hulkizing every villian could be potentially bad...but it works for Ultimate spidey. Kingpin filled the role enough has the head crime lord.

I feel the spirit of norman's character is in tact. this new direction makes sense, instead of an already rich guy wanting to be a crime lord.

I think the problem with ultimate. (or what killed it for me.)

is the lack of progression....
and that everyone seems to always see Peter without his mask at some point in the series.
still entertaining nontheless...but i want to see peter mature...and he hasn't done so yet.

he's still saying things like "OMG YOU SHOT AT ME, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SHOT AT ME!"

 

[farmernudie]

And the problem is..at least in Ultimate THAT Pete IS young.

WIth Amazing Ultimate 3X now...they're trying to make a MAN look young...and their whole direction is to make a man not age (Who already has aged and matured in some respects) and to regress him and keep him in this new "box".

So, where Ultimate young Pete at least that stays in character for him, for now, when progressed more mature Pete starts acting like a naive little boy again hanging with aunt may and getting beat up by gymnastic people...it just looks dopey.

Our Pete had grown up, but now he's Peter Pan.

As for the webshooters, people were highly for having these back before BND. BUT after getting hit over the head witht hem every issue and them being out of fluid every issue, i think people are just tired of them now, because they're basically always out and muggers are taking them from spidey too. Oy. Maybe next a bad guyw ho knows simple karate will school Pete and take his underwear!!

 

[Styleshift]

lol I just don't see how peter let the FIRST mugger go so easily while the guy had his wallet AND web shooter.

don't you think they'd be able to put two and two together? and SELL his identity?

I hate to say it considering it was Dan slott that wrote that story....but that was bad writing...

 

[Themanofbat]

lol I just don't see how peter let the FIRST mugger go so easily while the guy had his wallet AND web shooter.

don't you think they'd be able to put two and two together? and SELL his identity?

I hate to say it considering it was Dan slott that wrote that story....but that was bad writing...

The mugger had given his fence the wallet before he realized he had a web-shooter, and when he tried to get it back, he was killed by the fence.

Now, what we don't know is if he told him "why" he wanted the wallet back, which would mean that the fence would now possiblt know who Peter is (if he remembers which wallet is was), so that mystery is still up in the air...

 

[Infinity9999x]

i'm surprised by the ultimates and organic webshooters.

as for the aunt may comments, i think that answer is really asking whether she should have remained dead or not.

personally the evolution of spiderman would have been perfect to have the father go through the trials of being a father and a married husband and the balance of his great power/great responsibility mould.

this reboot brings nothing new to the table that we haven't already seen, it's a bit of a shame really but what can ya do.

Not only is it stuff we've already seen, it's stuff we're already getting in USM, so it really did seem pointless.

And I know for me, I wished Aunt May had stayed dead in the clone saga. Say what you want about the 90's, but that Aunt May issue was gold.

 

[Styleshift]

The mugger had given his fence the wallet before he realized he had a web-shooter, and when he tried to get it back, he was killed by the fence.

Now, what we don't know is if he told him "why" he wanted the wallet back, which would mean that the fence would now possiblt know who Peter is (if he remembers which wallet is was), so that mystery is still up in the air...

well....I guess thats what i get for doubting the true power of Dan Slott....sorry Dan.

Still I think Peter should have referred to it a bit more...it seems like he's not even worried. lol.

 

[Themanofbat]

well....I guess thats what i get for doubting the true power of Dan Slott....sorry Dan.

Still I think Peter should have referred to it a bit more...it seems like he's not even worried. lol.

Peter doesn't know about the fence, and he got his web-shooter back... so Pete's not worried about it because in his eyes, there's nothing there to worry about.

 

[Styleshift]

wow, how the hell did i miss all of THIS?
well how did he get his web shooter back?

hmmm i have no clue how i missed all of this. unless it was during Bob Gale's run. lol.

 

[imdaly]

BUT after getting hit over the head witht hem every issue and them being out of fluid every issue, i think people are just tired of them now, because they're basically always out and muggers are taking them from spidey too. Oy. Maybe next a bad guyw ho knows simple karate will school Pete and take his underwear!!

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't Pete only ran out of webbing ONCE so far since the start of BND? And his webshooter has only been stolen ONCE, too?

To say that they'e "always out and muggers are taking them" makes it sound like he's running out every issue and muggers are constantly stealing his webshooters...it's only happened once.

 

[Styleshift]

disregard the muggers thing Imdaly, he was just mocking the situation with the spider-mugger.
but,
He's right about the constant running out of web fluid in the earlier issues, Even Steve Wacker himself jokingly brought attention to it....

 

[imdaly]

disregard the muggers thing Imdaly, he was just mocking the situation with the spider-mugger.
but,
He's right about the constant running out of web fluid in the earlier issues, Even Steve Wacker himself jokingly brought attention to it....

Was he talking about BND or throughout Spidey's entire history? Cause yeah, he's ran out of webbing a lot over the years, but I can only think of one time when he's ran out of webbing so far in BND, with that outage lasting a couple issues.

 

[Styleshift]

He was referring to BND.

I believe it was in one of the letter columns.....


He made the remark that "we're (they're) just so glad to have them back."
or something like that.

Truth be told, Wacker is a pretty fair and honest guy...
he hasn't commented on OMD but at the same time he's like look give these guys a chance, they didn't even work on OMD.

Hopefully in the future marvel will be making fun of OMD as they did with the clone saga. (which was a good story...just poor execution because they decided to milk it. :csad)

 

[Themanofbat]

Yeah, Spidey ran out of web fluid in Slott's first story, and then again the following month in Guggenheim's story...

Wacker did indeed joke about how it shouldn't happen 2 months in a row...lol

 

[Themanofbat]

wow, how the hell did i miss all of THIS?
well how did he get his web shooter back?

hmmm i have no clue how i missed all of this. unless it was during Bob Gale's run. lol.

It was all in Slott's first 3 issues... he got the web-shooter off the dead mugger's arm (killed by the fence) and Spidey got blamed for his death (on acount that the cops saw him by the body when he was removing the web-shooter and checking his for a pulse).

 

[ScottishFogg]

Is there a link to the results? I can find the poll, but I'd like to read all the results . . .

 

[Styleshift]

It was all in Slott's first 3 issues... he got the web-shooter off the dead mugger's arm (killed by the fence) and Spidey got blamed for his death (on acount that the cops saw him by the body when he was removing the web-shooter and checking his for a pulse).

AH!!! now i remember....and thats how he got *most* of the blame for the killings. the cops felt he had "struck again" thanks TMOB.

 

[farmernudie]

Is there a link to the results? I can find the poll, but I'd like to read all the results . . .

I dunno....i got the actual magazine.

Very interesting poll though.

And of course, Wizard tried to be pro and con in their articles of both sides of all the polling options,...i felt they should have called it more like it was...result wise.

They don't want to offend Marvel or DC tho, which i understand, because that's the main business for comics right there. Isn't branched out like other products are distributer wise.

 

[shinlyle]

I remember when they would trash stuff they didnt like...now they seem to stay neutral...anyone remember that?

I remember them posting the word "ugh" in parentheses after Scarlet Spider's name every time it appeared anywhere in their book. Also, I remember when they criticized Marvel for making Venom and Sabertooth good guys. They also ripped "Heroes Reborn", simply because it ended Mark Waid's incredibly awesome run on Captaim America (albeit temporarily) so that Rob Liefeld could give us his trite reimagining of the character.

Wizard use to speak their minds about things they didn't like. I honestly think they'd praise Joel Schumacher if he put out another Batman movie, for fear of offending anyone.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Aloha,
Go back and read Back in Black-Amazing Spider-Man.Would Peter have made good on his promise to come back and KILL Kingpin had Aunt May died? And if he did,with the world knowing his identity would the marriage between he and MJ have stayed the same?
Spidey rules

Yes, I think he would have, given the situation. I don't think it would have constrained the relationship too much (I've always felt MJ wouldn't have minded if pete had knocked of say Eddie or Norman) I think the morals against any killing was strictly Pete. After that I would guess they would stay on the run probably settle into a new city until Pete had to face the responsibility of dealing with the fallout from kingpins death.