Comics Wizard #204 Spidey (BND) Debate Article

[arachnid-guy]

^ And immediately that sounds more exciting than anything in BND.

 

[farmernudie]

Or if they went back and started over from BIB, Kingpin could have inadvertantly been killed, ala Green Goblin with his Glider.

So, aunt may could have died tragically, kingpin could have died in a battle, but not directly from spider-man, putting a mystery of death around him and police on his trail, and Mj and Pete divorcing from the stress of his lifestyle and moods and etc. (if they REALLY hd to go that route of breaking them up.)

I mean, they also could have had Mj and him on the run, which would have been neat, with their relationship stronger than ever.

However, his identity was still known, and the whole unmasking to the world thing to make Iron Man Boss Guy happy....so, i dunno...everything was so forced into this reboot agenda, it is all messed up, and even more so now.

I am glad the poll showed that the majority are NOT for BND and are NOT for the marriage being broken up.

So...my next question...WHERE IS THE SPIDER-MAN COMIC FOR THE MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE??

Joe is clerarly doing this reboot for a MINORITY...and for a few fans that jump on board for various arcs done by special creators and talent.

They should give us something that continues from regular continuity of the character.

Even more so, if they are SO for this alternate spider-man reboot, let people vote with their dollars...put up talent for talent...a reboot series like they have now VS one within continuity and no devil deal.

I know which one would win. They don't dare.

 

[Themanofbat]

So...my next question...WHERE IS THE SPIDER-MAN COMIC FOR THE MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE??

Joe is clearly doing this reboot for a MINORITY...and for a few fans that jump on board for various arcs done by special creators and talent.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter to hook up with Betty Brant?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Captain Stacy to remain alive?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Gwen Stacy to stay alive and become Peter's wife?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter to hook up with the Black Cat?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted the black suit to remain the permanent one?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that didn't want Peter to marry MJ?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spidey to have monthly team-ups with other Marvel heroes? (Web of Spider-Man certainly didn't fill that role).

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Ben Reilly to become the one true Spider-Man?

The bottom line is that certain things have happened to our favorite Arachknight over the years and fans either had to accept the changes and/or move on... and OMD is yet one of many things that fans have to accept and/or move on...

Marvel Comics Inc. has wanted a "single" Spider-Man for 15 years... and now that they have one, the fans who don't like it either have to accept the changes... and/or move on.

'Nuff said.

 

[farmernudie]

I'm talking about a major component of Spider-man (the marriage) that fans overwhelmingly on this poll (80%) and this was already established and now they want to say it never happened. Also, all other polls have shown a majority everywhere of strong support for it, by the fans/consumers.

Also, polls and sales numbers show support for the reboot itself is not overwhelmingly positive to say the least.

What the majority of the current buyers wanted, Joe thumbed his nose at.
Pure and simple.

Sure there are differences on many small things that people would like.

Gutting a character and saying something that happened never did and rebooting it (when there was no fan cry for it) is devisive and un-needed.

Yeh, I would like to have a regular in continuity Spidey to read, i don't feel that is asking for too much.

 

[Themanofbat]

I'm talking about a major component of Spider-man (the marriage) that fans overwhelmingly on this poll (80%) and this was already established and now they want to say it never happened. Also, all other polls have shown a majority everywhere of strong support for it, by the fans/consumers.

Also, polls and sales numbers show support for the reboot itself is not overwhelmingly positive to say the least.

What the majority of the current buyers wanted, Joe thumbed his nose at.
Pure and simple.

Sure there are differences on many small things that people would like.

Gutting a character and saying something that happened never did and rebooting it (when there was no fan cry for it) is devisive and un-needed.

Yeh, I would like to have a regular in continuity Spidey to read, i don't feel that is asking for too much.

I don't disagree with you farmie... but remember, this is what Marvel Comics Inc. wanted...

 

[farmernudie]

TMOB: I don't disagree with you farmie... but remember, this is what Marvel Comics Inc. wanted...

I know....i know.....i just wish spider-man wasn't turned into something i don't like....it leaves me unable to enjoy, or buy my favorite comic now.

I've been reading my friend's, who is buying for his run, but not reading his own issues half the time.

So, I'm trying to like it, but the core foundation of the reboot and all the things i've talked about many times, hinder this version of Spidey big time, imo.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that didn't want Peter to marry MJ?

BND... TMoB... BND

 

[shinlyle]

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter to hook up with Betty Brant?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Captain Stacy to remain alive?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Gwen Stacy to stay alive and become Peter's wife?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter to hook up with the Black Cat?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted the black suit to remain the permanent one?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that didn't want Peter to marry MJ?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spidey to have monthly team-ups with other Marvel heroes? (Web of Spider-Man certainly didn't fill that role).

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Ben Reilly to become the one true Spider-Man?

The bottom line is that certain things have happened to our favorite Arachknight over the years and fans either had to accept the changes and/or move on... and OMD is yet one of many things that fans have to accept and/or move on...

Marvel Comics Inc. has wanted a "single" Spider-Man for 15 years... and now that they have one, the fans who don't like it either have to accept the changes... and/or move on.

'Nuff said.

In all fairness and respect, TMOB, none of those things was set in stone for 20 years (almost half of Spider-Man's existence!), and then taken away. Betty was married to Ned, Gwen was only around for about 8 years (?), and Captain Stacy for less than that. Ben Reilly was Spider-man for only about a year or so, and he was only in the comics for about 4 years, altogether. The black suit only lasted for about 3 years. Black Cat and Peter were only together (off and on) for about 5 years.

20 years of something being canon means that for 20 years, a married Spider-Man was all that new readers got to know. In my honest opinion, that is a valid reason for some sort of compensation to the fans who are clearly being alienated by the new status quo.

Personally, I'd be fine if they simply took the "Mr. and Mrs. Spider-Man" storyline from the "Amazing Spider-Man Family" issue, and continued it monthly as an ongoing "What If". Peter and MJ married, and raising a child. It's the one thing Marvel never wanted to happen, and that the fans of the marriage can enjoy as the next logical step. Also, in this world, Aunt May never came back from the dead, so ASM#400 still counts! That alone makes it better than the BND continuity to me!

Not that I wish Aunt May harm, but I think her death should have been left alone.

End rant.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter to hook up with Betty Brant?

I didn't know anyone wanted that. Does anyone want that?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Captain Stacy to remain alive?

House of M: Spider-Man (It didn't go over so well.)

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Gwen Stacy to stay alive and become Peter's wife?

House of M: Spider-Man, The Earth X series

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter to hook up with the Black Cat?

That was amazing for a while, people didn't want it enough I guess.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted the black suit to remain the permanent one?

Again, done in amazing, more people wanted it changed back.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that didn't want Peter to marry MJ?

Amazing when MJ was dead. People didn't want it enough. Also amazing during the clone saga. Again, not a fan favorite.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spidey to have monthly team-ups with other Marvel heroes? (Web of Spider-Man certainly didn't fill that role).

Marvel Team up. More than half of the later ones were with Spider-Man. Also ultimate team up. Couldn't sell enough.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Ben Reilly to become the one true Spider-Man?

Amazing during the clone saga. Same reasons it didn't stick.

The bottom line is that certain things have happened to our favorite Arachknight over the years and fans either had to accept the changes and/or move on... and OMD is yet one of many things that fans have to accept and/or move on...

Marvel Comics Inc. has wanted a "single" Spider-Man for 15 years... and now that they have one, the fans who don't like it either have to accept the changes... and/or move on.

'Nuff said.

Other than the betty brant question, all of those points were given a chance and failed because the majority of readers didn't like it. Now you have the majority of readers (at least by this poll) saying they don't like the current dealings, and reviews have been falling off, as have sales numbers. But what you just proved is you don't have to accept changes, as you listed unpopular turns that didn't wow people, so Peter Parker was changed back. You've just shown a pretty convincing record of why the boycott will be effective, thanks.

Marvel may have wanted a single Spider-Man for 15 years, but they kept bringing MJ back. Also MJ is ingrained for all those new readers via the movies. They tried with the clone saga, they tried killing her, now they tried to use the devil to do their work and I think that will be just as effective as their other tries.

I've got a few you didn't ask:

Where is the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spider-Man to be a hero?

Where is the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter Parker to be less ******ed than Johnny Blaze?

Where is the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spider-Man to be about some level of responsibility?

Where is the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spider-Man to make sense?

 

[Themanofbat]

BND... TMoB... BND

And that came 20 years later... so there's the answer to your question farmie...

 

[Themanofbat]

In all fairness and respect, TMOB, none of those things was set in stone for 20 years (almost half of Spider-Man's existence!), and then taken away. Betty was married to Ned, Gwen was only around for about 8 years (?), and Captain Stacy for less than that. Ben Reilly was Spider-man for only about a year or so, and he was only in the comics for about 4 years, altogether. The black suit only lasted for about 3 years. Black Cat and Peter were only together (off and on) for about 5 years.

20 years of something being canon means that for 20 years, a married Spider-Man was all that new readers got to know. In my honest opinion, that is a valid reason for some sort of compensation to the fans who are clearly being alienated by the new status quo.

Personally, I'd be fine if they simply took the "Mr. and Mrs. Spider-Man" storyline from the "Amazing Spider-Man Family" issue, and continued it monthly as an ongoing "What If". Peter and MJ married, and raising a child. It's the one thing Marvel never wanted to happen, and that the fans of the marriage can enjoy as the next logical step. Also, in this world, Aunt May never came back from the dead, so ASM#400 still counts! That alone makes it better than the BND continuity to me!

Not that I wish Aunt May harm, but I think her death should have been left alone.

End rant.

I know they didn't have the same impact as the marriage, but they were drastic changes at the time, and fans basically had to accept them and/or move on... the marriage is simply on a larger scale, but it's the same semantics...

And your "what if" comic comes out once a month and it's called The Amazing Spider-Girl... and I'm sure you already buy it Daddio...

 

[Themanofbat]

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter to hook up with Betty Brant?

I didn't know anyone wanted that. Does anyone want that?

At the time, during Spider-Man's first year, those early readers probably felt bad that the Spectre of Spider-Man had come between Peter and the woman he loves... I'm sure those readers wanted it.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Captain Stacy to remain alive?

House of M: Spider-Man (It didn't go over so well.)

So what you're telling me is that when Captain Stacy died in 1970, people had to wait about 34 years to get said comic... and in mini-series format. Well then, maybe you won't mind waiting that same amount of time to get what you want.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Gwen Stacy to stay alive and become Peter's wife?

House of M: Spider-Man, The Earth X series

Again, a 31 year wait... seems like a long time, don't ya think?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter to hook up with the Black Cat?

That was amazing for a while, people didn't want it enough I guess.

Or maybe Marvel's mandate (or agenda, or whatever catch word you want to use...) was to not have Spider-Man be with the Black Cat... because an awful lot of fans still like to see them together, to the point that the "Evil that Men Do" sales were great when it came out; thus debunking your "people didn't want it enough" theory.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted the black suit to remain the permanent one?

Again, done in amazing, more people wanted it changed back.

Yet in many polls in this forum, people will claim it's their favorite Spidey costume... Back In Black sold through the roof because of it... fans were watering at the mouth when they saw it in Spider-Man: Reign... maybe more people wanted it back, but a high number of people would have liked to see him wear it to this day... so what happened to those fans who didn't like the change back to the red'n blues? Where could they get their Black Costumed Spider-Man fix at that time? Again, they'd have to wait 20 years.

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that didn't want Peter to marry MJ?

Amazing when MJ was dead. People didn't want it enough. Also amazing during the clone saga. Again, not a fan favorite.

Hahahahhaaa... c'mon... you're really pulling on some strings there... I'm talking about in 1987 when some fans didn't want a married Spider-Man. Where was the alternate comic for those who wanted a single Spidey? Every Spider-Man comic on the market at that time (not including reprints) had a married Spider-Man... similarly to the people who want to read about a married Spider-Man NOW, at least they have Spider-Girl and the new ASMFamily comic... but where was the alternate for those people at the time? Peter was still married to MJ during the Clone Saga... of course, it was Ben who was Spider-Man, but that was not reflective in my question which clearly stated "Peter & MJ", whom were still happily married during that time... and if you're going to dregde up the Mackie/MJ's dead era, again, fans had to wait over 12 years to get to that point... an awful long time for fans to wait, wouldn't you say?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spidey to have monthly team-ups with other Marvel heroes? (Web of Spider-Man certainly didn't fill that role).

Marvel Team up. More than half of the later ones were with Spider-Man. Also ultimate team up. Couldn't sell enough.

I should have clarified... from 1972 to 1985, Spidey readers got a monthly dose of Spider-Man team ups... but the book was cancelled and replaced with Web of Spider-Man, which Marvel (at the time) promised LOTS of team-ups in Web of... which never happened... so again, fans of MTU who may have read the book for 13 years had to wait another 12 years until Spider-Man Team Up hit the stands in December of 1996... where was the team-up book in the interim? Obviously, Marvel thinks that Spider-Man Team-Up books sell well, seeing as he makes "guest" appearances in titles that sell poorly, so what alternative did those fans get?

Where was the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Ben Reilly to become the one true Spider-Man?

Amazing during the clone saga. Same reasons it didn't stick.

Yet, for some strange reason, there's a Ben Reilly thread dedicated to all those fans that would have loved to see him stay as Spider-Man. And there's all this excited talk about the Ben Reilly Spider-Man making an appearance in an upcoming Spidey/X-Men mini series where these people are buying 3 to 5 copies (of the issue in which he appears in) in order to send Marvel a message that they want him back. So there's an obvious fan base... what happened to THOSE READERS after Spider-Man #75? Again, another 12 year wait... that's far too long I think.

Other than the betty brant question, all of those points were given a chance and failed because the majority of readers didn't like it. Now you have the majority of readers (at least by this poll) saying they don't like the current dealings, and reviews have been falling off, as have sales numbers. But what you just proved is you don't have to accept changes, as you listed unpopular turns that didn't wow people, so Peter Parker was changed back. You've just shown a pretty convincing record of why the boycott will be effective, thanks.

You're welcome, but I don't think I provided you with anything other than if this boycott continues, you might have to wait 12 years minimum to get what you want... LOL!!!

Marvel may have wanted a single Spider-Man for 15 years, but they kept bringing MJ back. Also MJ is ingrained for all those new readers via the movies. They tried with the clone saga, they tried killing her, now they tried to use the devil to do their work and I think that will be just as effective as their other tries.

And who's to say that MJ won't be a part of Spidey's supporting cast? Obviously, MJ is an important character in the Spidey-Mythos, but she doesn''t need to be attached to Peter's hips to work as a fundamentally good character... she'll be back in the books... I have no worries about that.

I've got a few you didn't ask:

Where is the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spider-Man to be a hero?

Where is the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Peter Parker to be less ******ed than Johnny Blaze?

Where is the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spider-Man to be about some level of responsibility?

Where is the Spider-Man comic for the fans that wanted Spider-Man to make sense?

Well, unlike all the poor fans of yesteryear that had to wait DECADES to get what they wanted, and sometimes only in the form of a mini-series, you can get what you want monthly in Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man Family (showing the continuing adventures of a married Pete & MJ), and finally, Amazing Spider-Girl.

You sure have it better than the poor fans of the past.

 

[moraldeficiency]

At the time, during Spider-Man's first year, those early readers probably felt bad that the Spectre of Spider-Man had come between Peter and the woman he loves... I'm sure those readers wanted it.

I'd have to meet one of these alleged readers to say anything more, I don't know anyone.

So what you're telling me is that when Captain Stacy died in 1970, people had to wait about 34 years to get said comic... and in mini-series format. Well then, maybe you won't mind waiting that same amount of time to get what you want.

No, what I'm saying is not enough people cared in the least. Some deaths like Captian Stacy, Uncle Ben, Aunt May, Harry Osborn and Gwen Stacy were fundamental to character development. And you can see that out of those two are back and they really pushed for Gwen too. I'm saying that if people really wanted it, they could have made it happen. I'm saying that the alt stories that were about this weren't popular enough to stay around, unlike say Spider-Girl.

Again, a 31 year wait... seems like a long time, don't ya think?

Same situation as above. If they wanted it then, it could have happened.

Or maybe Marvel's mandate (or agenda, or whatever catch word you want to use...) was to not have Spider-Man be with the Black Cat... because an awful lot of fans still like to see them together, to the point that the "Evil that Men Do" sales were great when it came out; thus debunking your "people didn't want it enough" theory.

No, people didn't want it enough. Evil that Men Do was great, and Millar tried to get more action there in his run as well. Because sales were great on one mini, done by a hollywood type, doesn't show a majority desire in the least, especially since said product didn't feature Spider-Man with the Black Cat. Sorry that logic's off.

I kinda agree marvel probably didn't want it, but then they didn't want the marriage either and that happened just for a little bit of press.

Yet in many polls in this forum, people will claim it's their favorite Spidey costume... Back In Black sold through the roof because of it... fans were watering at the mouth when they saw it in Spider-Man: Reign... maybe more people wanted it back, but a high number of people would have liked to see him wear it to this day... so what happened to those fans who didn't like the change back to the red'n blues? Where could they get their Black Costumed Spider-Man fix at that time? Again, they'd have to wait 20 years.

You think BiB sold because of the costume, or the possibility of Peter Parker going over the edge? If you think it's for the costume, I have a great bridge you should buy.

And the fans may have liked it, but no one did anything about it.

Hahahahhaaa... c'mon... you're really pulling on some strings there... I'm talking about in 1987 when some fans didn't want a married Spider-Man. Where was the alternate comic for those who wanted a single Spidey? Every Spider-Man comic on the market at that time (not including reprints) had a married Spider-Man... similarly to the people who want to read about a married Spider-Man NOW, at least they have Spider-Girl and the new ASMFamily comic... but where was the alternate for those people at the time? Peter was still married to MJ during the Clone Saga... of course, it was Ben who was Spider-Man, but that was not reflective in my question which clearly stated "Peter & MJ", whom were still happily married during that time... and if you're going to dregde up the Mackie/MJ's dead era, again, fans had to wait over 12 years to get to that point... an awful long time for fans to wait, wouldn't you say?

In 1987 that didn't happen, of course. You know why? More people liked it than didn't. Add to that the protesters didn't boycott or complain too much. It's not like now when I know many people actively not picking up anything with that mystical abortionist Peter Parker featured.

They could have undone it a million times in the early days without problems. She didn't have the history and they hadn't grown as individuals and a couple into what we had before. If marvel so didn't want the marriage, why did they leave it alone? I've never heard even a remotely reasonable answer to this question.

I should have clarified... from 1972 to 1985, Spidey readers got a monthly dose of Spider-Man team ups... but the book was cancelled and replaced with Web of Spider-Man, which Marvel (at the time) promised LOTS of team-ups in Web of... which never happened... so again, fans of MTU who may have read the book for 13 years had to wait another 12 years until Spider-Man Team Up hit the stands in December of 1996... where was the team-up book in the interim? Obviously, Marvel thinks that Spider-Man Team-Up books sell well, seeing as he makes "guest" appearances in titles that sell poorly, so what alternative did those fans get?

I didn't know that was web's start. But again, fan demand will sell anything. The Team Ups get cancelled because not enough people read them and they don't go all out with letters and campaigning to keep it. If not enough fans care passionately, and it doesn't sell, why would marvel keep it going? As so many like to point out, this is a buisness.

Yet, for some strange reason, there's a Ben Reilly thread dedicated to all those fans that would have loved to see him stay as Spider-Man. And there's all this excited talk about the Ben Reilly Spider-Man making an appearance in an upcoming Spidey/X-Men mini series where these people are buying 3 to 5 copies (of the issue in which he appears in) in order to send Marvel a message that they want him back. So there's an obvious fan base... what happened to THOSE READERS after Spider-Man #75? Again, another 12 year wait... that's far too long I think.

I didn't say no one liked Ben Reilly, I just said not enough to matter. Sales plummetted, I know I didn't read a comic for years because of that. Ben Reilly was a good character, he just shouldn't have replaced Spider-Man. People would probably read a a Ben Reilly comic, just not when he's the central figure used to undo who Spider-Man is. But I'll tell you what, if that issue of the mini sells a million copies and gets a rave response, he'll be coming back. The problem is, it won't, I bet it will sell about as much as any other issue in the series.

You're welcome, but I don't think I provided you with anything other than if this boycott continues, you might have to wait 12 years minimum to get what you want... LOL!!!

You've shown, historically, that fan response can and does override the wants of higher ups in marvel. You've shown that as a buisness when you neglect your customers, your sales suffer. You've shown that if people are passionate about an issue and vote with their words and their wallets, change can be effective. You've shown why we don't have to accept this or move on, option 3 is more than viable.

And who's to say that MJ won't be a part of Spidey's supporting cast? Obviously, MJ is an important character in the Spidey-Mythos, but she doesn''t need to be attached to Peter's hips to work as a fundamentally good character... she'll be back in the books... I have no worries about that.

I don't really care if she is or isn't. I just want Peter Parker to be a hero and about responsiblity again. I want Peter Parker to not liferape while mystically aborting people and actting like a stupid version of Johnny Blaze. It's a simple request really.

Well, unlike all the poor fans of yesteryear that had to wait DECADES to get what they wanted, and sometimes only in the form of a mini-series, you can get what you want monthly in Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man Family (showing the continuing adventures of a married Pete & MJ), and finally, Amazing Spider-Girl.

You sure have it better than the poor fans of the past.

Yeah, we do have it better in a way. Though the fans of the past got the good clone saga, not spider-man being undone and a wife beater. They also never had to deal with their hero forcing his old aunt to live against her will in a way she would never allow, while at the same time aborting children and screwing with the minds of everyone he cares about because it's the easy out. They got to read about Peter Parker being a hero in every comic he was in, however limited that number was. Frankly nothing was done in the past that so polarized Spider-fans against the character until the 90s. Maybe they didn't have it so bad after all.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

But unlike those events that TMoB mentions. OMD/BND invalidates various issues from 1987-2007... (It does not fit perfectly like Quesada wants us to believe...) The problem here is that Spidey WAS written into a wall for the retcon... There could've been hundreds of other ways to undo the marriage... but the official choice for the Parker-Watson marriage annulment seems like a bad fanfic...

 

[shinlyle]

I know they didn't have the same impact as the marriage, but they were drastic changes at the time, and fans basically had to accept them and/or move on... the marriage is simply on a larger scale, but it's the same semantics...

And your "what if" comic comes out once a month and it's called The Amazing Spider-Girl... and I'm sure you already buy it Daddio...

You mean, the best Spider-book for the past 10 years? Yes, I absolutely buy that!

 

[moraldeficiency]

I do too, the current arc has been great.

 

[Themanofbat]

But unlike those events that TMoB mentions. OMD/BND invalidates various issues from 1987-2007... (It does not fit perfectly like Quesada wants us to believe...) The problem here is that Spidey WAS written into a wall for the retcon... There could've been hundreds of other ways to undo the marriage... but the official choice for the Parker-Watson marriage annulment seems like a bad fanfic...

The only comic I can think that it actually invalidates would be the Wedding Annual itself and possibly the Spec. Honeymoon Annual...

Everything can be made to work... it's so easy to think that Harry survives the ambulance drive, much like his father did even though we see Norman's face on a stretcher being taken away in the beginning pages of ASM #123...

Some events would seem like a stretch, but it could still count. (I'm referring to the Black Cat's freakout when she finds out Pete & MJ got marrie... err, decided to live together. )

 

[moraldeficiency]

The only comic I can think that it actually invalidates would be the Wedding Annual itself and possibly the Spec. Honeymoon Annual...

Everything can be made to work... it's so easy to think that Harry survives the ambulance drive, much like his father did even though we see Norman's face on a stretcher being taken away in the beginning pages of ASM #123...

Some events would seem like a stretch, but it could still count. (I'm referring to the Black Cat's freakout when she finds out Pete & MJ got marrie... err, decided to live together. )

Can we throw in the spectacular annual, the war at home and BiB as well with that? I mean without MJ there Pete would have saved May, right? So the events that lead to OMD couldn't really have happened without a married Peter Parker, therefore OMD never happened, therefore.....damn I think I just found one of those universe destroying paradoxes, that sucks.

 

[carnageehw]

Some events would seem like a stretch, but it could still count. (I'm referring to the Black Cat's freakout when she finds out Pete & MJ got marrie... err, decided to live together. )

Ever see those simpsons episodes where Lrusty says something like "Hey kids! I'm coming to..." and a generic, bland voice over guy says "Springfeild" and Krusty continues talking?

That's what I picture everytime I ead the word "marriage" or something in old Spidey Comics.

Pete: "Oh hi Betty, I'd like you to meet <My live in girlfriend> Mary Jane"

"I'm thankful every day that I <Decided to move in with> Mary Jane"

 

[Themanofbat]

Ever see those simpsons episodes where Lrusty says something like "Hey kids! I'm coming to..." and a generic, bland voice over guy says "Springfeild" and Krusty continues talking?

That's what I picture everytime I ead the word "marriage" or something in old Spidey Comics.

Pete: "Oh hi Betty, I'd like you to meet <My live in girlfriend> Mary Jane"

"I'm thankful every day that I <Decided to move in with> Mary Jane"

t: t: t:

 

[Themanofbat]

Can we throw in the spectacular annual, the war at home and BiB as well with that? I mean without MJ there Pete would have saved May, right? So the events that lead to OMD couldn't really have happened without a married Peter Parker, therefore OMD never happened, therefore.....damn I think I just found one of those universe destroying paradoxes, that sucks.

I think as we go on that those stories will still count... remember, Peter and MJ were an unmarried couple up until OMD and then around 4 months goes by when we get the first issue of BND, so a LOT has happened in that time frame... May's house gets rebuilt, Pete figures a way to mindwipe everybody, etc...

 

[moraldeficiency]

I think as we go on that those stories will still count... remember, Peter and MJ were an unmarried couple up until OMD and then around 4 months goes by when we get the first issue of BND, so a LOT has happened in that time frame... May's house gets rebuilt, Pete figures a way to mindwipe everybody, etc...

Was that actually established that they were living together right up to OMD?

 

[farmernudie]

TMOB: The only comic I can think that it actually invalidates would be the Wedding Annual itself and possibly the Spec. Honeymoon Annual...

Everything can be made to work... it's so easy

Right, you only have to have a big enough hammer, which Joe does have.

Then you can pound it into place.

Just like any puzzle piece in a puzzle set can "fit" anywhere...if you force it long enough, pound it, rip it, tweak it, smash it, hammer it.....

May not look good, but you can make it work!!

And, I might add....that they ALREADY had a SINGLE SPIDER-MAN for fans that wanted that in ULTIMATE SPIDEY. So, there was no need to make TWO for fans, unwanted, i might add.

So, the customer is still always wrong, over and over, online and off.
Not a good business strategy, really, no matter how much you rationalize it towards fans twenty years in the future, etc. Your customers made you and make you. Now.

This was needless destruction. Doing this to spidey comics right now, is like ripping down a perfectly good bridge, and putting up a newone in a different color, because drivers twenty years from now may like that color better then.



This is just needless.

Eventually, they will not be able to SPIN the numbers, the polls, the stats, etc,...eventually they're going to have to admit most of their customers do not want this nor ever asked for it. Joe did.

 

[Themanofbat]

...eventually they're going to have to admit most of their customers do not want this nor ever asked for it. Joe did.

Marvel Comics Inc. did.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The infamous man behind the curtian. Marvel comics inc....duh duh duh!!!! Joe's the only marvel officer I know was pushing for it. Whom else do you have at marvel inc pulling the strings TMOB?