Wolverine in Japan

[MasterOgami]

Deathstrike wasn't trained by ninjas.

And Stryker had -nothing- to do with the Weapon X project in the comics, but look at X2 and Wolverine.

 

[Red Mask]

It would be harder to convince people she was trained by ninjas and abducted by Stryker, than to just say she is Logan's daughter from a past fling.

 

[Red Mask]

That would add a bit of a tragic angle. However, making her his kid would mean that she wouldn't be in this movie in the way most people want her to be, fully grown and one of the major villains. Making her his child means she would only be in a cameo form at most, since you have you have to show her being born, or mention it, in a way without Wolverine knowing about it.

Kelly Hu can play Deathstrike's mother. She has a fling with Logan, he leaves, and that's that.

 

[MasterOgami]

It would be harder to convince people she was trained by ninjas and abducted by Stryker, than to just say she is Logan's daughter from a past fling.

Actually the ninja/Stryker route seems -a lot- easier than trying to establish a backstory for her that ties into Logan's past, especially since Stryker has a tendency to abduct mutants for his own purposes. Anyway, none of that would need to be shown; a blink and you'll miss it cameo is about all the movie version of the character is worth. There's no real payoff to developing her further.

Kelly Hu can play Deathstrike's mother. She has a fling with Logan, he leaves, and that's that.

And when Deathstrike shows up in X2, Logan can be like "Hey, you look just like the lady I boinked in Hokkaido. Hey wait...!" Except that doesn't happen.

It's kind of a cute idea, and there's a chance they could make something like that work, but it just kinda seems unnecessary.

 

[squeekness]

Maybe Logan's boinked so many women in his day that he simply wouldn't recall her out of context.

 

[Red Mask]

Actually the ninja/Stryker route seems -a lot- easier than trying to establish a backstory for her that ties into Logan's past, especially since Stryker has a tendency to abduct mutants for his own purposes. Anyway, none of that would need to be shown; a blink and you'll miss it cameo is about all the movie version of the character is worth. There's no real payoff to developing her further.



And when Deathstrike shows up in X2, Logan can be like "Hey, you look just like the lady I boinked in Hokkaido. Hey wait...!" Except that doesn't happen.

It's kind of a cute idea, and there's a chance they could make something like that work, but it just kinda seems unnecessary.

If fans want to see her again, I see no other way of involving her. If he doesn't know her at all, despite their similar movie powers, then don't bother bringing her back.

So having her appear being trained by ninjas and then abducted by Stryker is lamer than Deadpool having a real nihonto. First off, regardless of what fools believe, Yuriko could have learned those fighting skills outside of a ninja group. Second, a clandestine ninja clan would never allow one of their own to be abducted without retribution. For the samurai it's the Code of Bushido. For the ninja it's all for the family. They'll be lopping off yankee heads until they got Yuriko back.

 

[Infinity9999x]

If fans want to see her again, I see no other way of involving her. If he doesn't know her at all, despite their similar movie powers, then don't bother bringing her back.

So having her appear being trained by ninjas and then abducted by Stryker is lamer than Deadpool having a real nihonto. First off, regardless of what fools believe, Yuriko could have learned those fighting skills outside of a ninja group. Second, a clandestine ninja clan would never allow one of their own to be abducted without retribution. For the samurai it's the Code of Bushido. For the ninja it's all for the family. They'll be lopping off yankee heads until they got Yuriko back.

Well, number one, if it's the Hand, they would certainly let her be abducted if Stryker paid them enough, because first and foremost, they work for whoever pays them the most.

And secondly, it's no where near as bad as what they did to Deadpool. Heck, you're idea of having Deathstrike be Logan's child is a bigger change than having the Hand train her.

And still, as I said above, people don't want to see "baby deathstrike," they want to see Deathstrike as a full blown villain ready to fight Logan, and there really isn't any way to introduce that because of the memory-loss thing.

However, I'm not opposed to the cameo-mention of having her be his child. But it would be a definite no on having Kelly Hu play her. As said above, I think Logan would be able to recognize a woman who looks exactly like one he was once in a relationship with.

However, I do think it could work if you inplemented it in the right way. Say we go with the Claremont/Miller mini. At the end of the story Logan has Mariko and everything is hunky-dory, and Mariko tells Logan she is pregnant and asks him "what do you think of the name Yuriko?"

Then in the next movie, for some reason, Logan has to leave Mariko for a while, or is taken away in some sort of conflict. He's gone for months, and when he comes back he finds out that Mariko was murdered (you could have the culprit be multiple people, the Hand, the Silver Samurai, Sabretooth..ect). And Logan doesn't return to Japan heartbroken, and also unaware that Mariko had her child just before she was killed.

 

[MasterOgami]

All of this is precisely why they shouldn't bring Deathstrike into this, and honestly I don't think fans are clamoring for her to come back. It just seems that some fans hear "Logan in Japan" and have a kneejerk "Deathstrike!" reaction, even though it seems like including her would be more trouble than its worth.

I'm hoping they stick with Mariko, Shingen, Silver Samurai, and The Hand. To tell the truth, I kinda hope they jettison Yukio from Claremont's original story and focus solely on Logan and Mariko. Yeah, it'd be a big change, but we're all used to that (for better or worse) and honestly I think it'd help in this situation.

 

[Infinity9999x]

All of this is precisely why they shouldn't bring Deathstrike into this, and honestly I don't think fans are clamoring for her to come back. It just seems that some fans hear "Logan in Japan" and have a kneejerk "Deathstrike!" reaction, even though it seems like including her would be more trouble than its worth.

I'm hoping they stick with Mariko, Shingen, Silver Samurai, and The Hand. To tell the truth, I kinda hope they jettison Yukio from Claremont's original story and focus solely on Logan and Mariko. Yeah, it'd be a big change, but we're all used to that (for better or worse) and honestly I think it'd help in this situation.

I agree about Deathstrike, but I completely disagree about Yukio. She is a key part of that story, and she emphasizes the major theme of the story. As I said earlier in the thread, all of the main characters in that reflect a part of Logan's inner struggle.

Mariko is beautiful, controlled, peaceful, yet strong. Her life is strictly governed by honor and tradition. She is someone who Logan loves, and she also embodies everything he wishes to be. Peaceful, honorable, in complete control over his animal side.

Yukio is free spirtied, aggressive, capable. She lives for the moment and loves to be in the thick of fights. She believes that you are who you are, and that it's pointless to fight your true nature. Again, someone who Logan loves, and someone who embodies the side of him he wishes to overcome. She is wild and uncontrolled, much like Logan's animal side, yet she doesn't fight her nature, something that, at times, Logan wishes he could do.

Shingin represents the struggle, and the fear of the struggle. Logan is constantly battling to overcome his animal side, but his biggest fear is that, no matter how hard he tries, he never will be able to overcome that part of him, that he will be an animal his entire life. Shingin at first defeats Logan, not only physically, but mentally. He gets Logan to actually believe he is nothing more than an animal.

Shingen embodies the very thing Logan fears most: failing. However, Logan eventually overcomes this and must face Shingen again, and by doing so, we are actually shown the pattern of Logan's life through a human drama. Battling against himself, failing, losing faith in himself, realizing who he is, and getting up again to face his challenge once more.

Every character in that original mini serves a very big purpose to the main themes and elements of the story, and removing any one of those original three characters would be a huge mistake and detriment to the story.

 

[MasterOgami]

Totally good points. I was more or less imagining a -loosely- adapted version of the story, and to be honest "loosely" is what we need to expect. My fear is that Yukio could detract from Mariko's development. It wasn't an issue in the mini-series since Mariko had already been established, but she'll be an all new character in the sequel, most likely/hopefully* meeting Logan for the first time in it.

*I say that because I'd find it a bit ridiculous for Logan and Mariko to have met before, offscreen, at some point. I'd like to see their initial meeting and the development of their relationship and can't shake the feeling that Yukio would only serve to clutter it up storywise. I'll admit that I could be absolutely wrong though.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Totally good points. I was more or less imagining a -loosely- adapted version of the story, and to be honest "loosely" is what we need to expect. My fear is that Yukio could detract from Mariko's development. It wasn't an issue in the mini-series since Mariko had already been established, but she'll be an all new character in the sequel, most likely/hopefully* meeting Logan for the first time in it.

*I say that because I'd find it a bit ridiculous for Logan and Mariko to have met before, offscreen, at some point. I'd like to see their initial meeting and the development of their relationship and can't shake the feeling that Yukio would only serve to clutter it up storywise. I'll admit that I could be absolutely wrong though.

I definitely see your point with Mariko, and I admit that I've been thinking about that too. She really isn't in the original mini much at all, because she was already set up in the comics before that, and we really can't do that in the movie.

The way I see it there are a few options we could go with.

1.) Have the movie set after the X-trilogy. Establish at the beginning of the movie that Mariko and Logan are already in a semi-relationship. Still show some relationship building scenes when Logan's in Japan, but the majority of their "first meeting" and "falling in love" is told through flashbacks.

2.) Have the movie still set before the X-trilogy, but a few years after Origins. Have Wolverine still in Japan, and have Mariko be introduced as his steady girlfriend in the beggining of the movie. She suddenly stops visiting/writing for a few days once Shingin returns, and we jump right back into the story like in the mini. Again, any "first meeting/falling in love" scenes are done through flashbacks. (Which I think would fit very well when Logan's drugged up/half dead after the first beating he gets from Shingin, and possibly the scene where he passes out drunk with Yukio on the traintracks.)

3.) Have the movie more or less pick right up after Origins, and have Logan meet Mariko at the begginning of the movie. Show the falling in love scenes, but do it fairly quick. Changing things around a bit, have him meet Yukio shortly after meeting Mariko, before he gets beaten by Shingin. Build the romances simultaneously, and finally don't have the first fight against Shingen until close to midway through the movie.

Have the beggining of the movie be about building the relationship between Markio/Yukio/Logan, and have Logan be dealing with the problem of the rising power of the Hand, who seem to be headed by the mysterious "Silver Samurai." (You could have Logan be working with the local government there. It would make sense, he's always been drawn to that kind of work, and this way you could introduce Asano.) Midway through the movie (or a bit before), Shingen forces Mariko to stop seeing Logan, and Logan goes to invenstigate, leading to the first confrontation and beatdown by Shingin. From here everything would pretty much play out like it did in the GN. Eventually everything would tie up, with Logan realizing Shingin is behind the Hand and the Silver Samurai.

I think any of these three could work. At the moment, I'm actually partial to the third option, just because I think it would be interesting to see the love stories play out simultaneously with Yukio and Mariko. And to clairify, at first, Logan would be more stand-off-ish around Mariko. He would be obviously attracted, but he's more interested in Yukio. It won't really heat up between Yukio and him until after the first battle with Shingin and Mariko's "rejection" of him.

 

[MasterOgami]

I think I'd go with the third option, or something like it, also. What about the ending of the mini/Uncanny 172-173? I don't see that translating very well. I mean I can't imagine them taking it as far as the wedding, or almost-wedding rather.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think I'd go with the third option, or something like it, also. What about the ending of the mini/Uncanny 172-173? I don't see that translating very well. I mean I can't imagine them taking it as far as the wedding, or almost-wedding rather.

I wouldn't adapt that story directly at all. The most I would do with the wedding is imply or have them say they're going to get married at the end of the film.

We already would have worked Silver Samurai into the plot. (My idea was to have him be working for his father as an enforcer, helping him expand his empire, while at the same time plotting to overthrow Shingin and kill Mariko to take control of the Clan.) We wouldn't need the wedding to introduce him.

However, after implying or stating that Wolvie and Mariko are going to get married, I would have it turn out somehow (probably tragically) that they don't get together. Maybe Sabes finds Logan and kills Mariko, maybe some government spooks from Weapon X show up and try to steal back Logan, killing Mariko in the process. Whatever you do, Mariko needs to end up dead, because I can't really see a reason for him to not interact with her again for 15 to 20 years if he really loves her. (This going off the idea that the movie will take place right after or close to where Origins left off.)

 

[Project862006]

reading the mini atm very very good stuff and owuld make a good film casting wise Mariko could be virtually any Asian actress.

Yukio - Bai Ling

Shingen - Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa

 

[Red Mask]

Well, number one, if it's the Hand, they would certainly let her be abducted if Stryker paid them enough, because first and foremost, they work for whoever pays them the most.

The Hand doesn't sell off their members, they sell their services. They tried to kill off or get back control of Elektra and Psylocke after they broke away from them. Remember, the Hand is also a cult. If she's one of them, they consider'll consider her a part of them until death. They don't go training other people for other customers.

And secondly, it's no where near as bad as what they did to Deadpool. Heck, you're idea of having Deathstrike be Logan's child is a bigger change than having the Hand train her.

I don't give **** about Deadpool. He's a lone mercenary. If he has nobody to bail him out that's just tough cookies.

And still, as I said above, people don't want to see "baby deathstrike," they want to see Deathstrike as a full blown villain ready to fight Logan, and there really isn't any way to introduce that because of the memory-loss thing.

However, I'm not opposed to the cameo-mention of having her be his child. But it would be a definite no on having Kelly Hu play her. As said above, I think Logan would be able to recognize a woman who looks exactly like one he was once in a relationship with.

However, I do think it could work if you inplemented it in the right way. Say we go with the Claremont/Miller mini. At the end of the story Logan has Mariko and everything is hunky-dory, and Mariko tells Logan she is pregnant and asks him "what do you think of the name Yuriko?"

Then in the next movie, for some reason, Logan has to leave Mariko for a while, or is taken away in some sort of conflict. He's gone for months, and when he comes back he finds out that Mariko was murdered (you could have the culprit be multiple people, the Hand, the Silver Samurai, Sabretooth..ect). And Logan doesn't return to Japan heartbroken, and also unaware that Mariko had her child just before she was killed.

So you want to change Deathstrike from the daughter of Oyama to a member of the Yoshida clan? How is that any better? A samurai house like that would not let their daughter be trained by ninjas. It's undignified.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The Hand doesn't sell off their members, they sell their services. They tried to kill off or get back control of Elektra and Psylocke after they broke away from them. Remember, the Hand is also a cult. If she's one of them, they consider'll consider her a part of them until death. They don't go training other people for other customers.



I don't give **** about Deadpool. He's a lone mercenary. If he has nobody to bail him out that's just tough cookies.

They wanted Psylocke and Elecktra back because they were powerful. I'm sure they wouldn't be opposed to training, or selling a member for the right price.

And you don't care about Deadpool...yet you just used Deadpool in the example I quoted. Even so, my post wasn't about Deadpool. I really don't care how you feel about the character, I wasn't talking about Deadpool directly, I was using him as an example, and you not caring about Deadpoold doesn't render the example any less effective or true.

So you want to change Deathstrike from the daughter of Oyama to a member of the Yoshida clan? How is that any better? A samurai house like that would not let their daughter be trained by ninjas. It's undignified.

.....Okay, I just don't understand you here. I was agreeing with you by posing this idea. YOU were the one who first decided to have the idea of making Deathstrike his kid.

And no, Markio's family wouldn't let their child be trained by Ninja's, but if you'll notice what I was saying earlier, I said she would be trained by Ninja's after Mariko was killed. She would have been stolen and trained by ninjas, it wouldn't be a willing thing.

 

[Illuminata]

ugh. Mariko, the one thing I hoped this franchise would never have.

Here's an idea, how about having Wolverine alone and become the dark menacing killing machine that Bryan Singer had created in X1 and X2. Ridiculous.

 

[Infinity9999x]

ugh. Mariko, the one thing I hoped this franchise would never have.

Here's an idea, how about having Wolverine alone and become the dark menacing killing machine that Bryan Singer had created in X1 and X2. Ridiculous.

...Are you being serious? Because Singer was the first person to tone down Wolverine. Yeah, X3 and this movie took it further, but Singer's Wolverine was already a good few notches down from his comic counterpart.

And if you've read the 4ish Claremont/Miller mini, you'll see that Wolverine is more brutal in that than he is in any of the movies combined. Also, if they play it out right, Mariko would most likely get killed somehow at the end of the story, or fairly early in the 3rd one, so you get the best of both worlds.

 

[Project862006]

true he was toned down but at least singer's wolverine was no ***** i just want to know how does he become more human and a nicer guy in wolverine when he should be the most violent lolol

 

[Infinity9999x]

true he was toned down but at least singer's wolverine was no ***** i just want to know how does he become more human and a nicer guy in wolverine when he should be the most violent lolol

Oh I agree with that. Origins was when we should have seen the really grisly side of Wolverine, and they really dropped the ball on that.

 

[the a1ant]

They keep saying they're going to make Wolverine darker and grittier and it seems like with each film he gets a little bit more softer. That's strange...especially in a prequel. I could understand his relationship with the X-Men making him less grisly, but he should have definitely been darker in Origins.

 

[Infinity9999x]

They keep saying they're going to make Wolverine darker and grittier and it seems like with each film he gets a little bit more softer. That's strange...especially in a prequel. I could understand his relationship with the X-Men making him less grisly, but he should have definitely been darker in Origins.

I can't really understand it either. I think it really comes down to the studio being too scared to write material that will do the character justice. And I'm not asking for an R-rated Wolvie here. I think you can do a Wolverine movie just fine without making it R.

But the studio is focused on making money, and they don't want to take a risk and show their "poster super hero" acting like a bit of a bad person, even if it makes the story better.

 

[Project862006]

they are scared because to them wolverine is like spiderman to them you would think TDK success would make a darker tone more assessable

also on japan story i wonder how they are gonna put it together i dont think a straight adaption will work they have to tweak it a bit

 

[MrWayne]

i wonder how they would butcher Deathstrike & Silver Samurai.. it doesnt even matter whos in it theyre just gonna mess it all up and change everything around on us lol

 

[Infinity9999x]

i wonder how they would butcher Deathstrike & Silver Samurai.. it doesnt even matter whos in it theyre just gonna mess it all up and change everything around on us lol

Well they already messed up Deathstrike. She was in X2. That's the one criticism I have of Singer. He did a horrible job with Wolverine's rouges.