Wolverine sucks

[Zeu]

Wolverine cutting Hulk is the most ridiculous thing ever written.

Just because his claws are made of adamantium doesn´t mean Wolverine has the strenght to slice everything with them.
The claws are not magical artifacts forget by Hephaestus, able to carve electrons outta atoms.
They´re metal.
Unbelievably tough metal but still just an alloy.

If Wolverine had the strenght of, say, Colossus or the Thing, THEN you could make the case that maybe he has what it takes to cut a skin as hard as Hulk´s.


But as it is, Wolverine has only peak human strenght.
Meaning that when they put him slicing metal doors or a Sentinel´s reinforced plating, the writers are already stretching Suspension of Disbelief beyond its limits of elasticity.

You put him cutting Hulk, a creature who can survive nuclear blasts and we´re beyond Suspension of Disbelief and well into the realm of Daffy Duck physics.

 

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

So??? It was still just as rediculous. I'm not a fan of the uber healing factor for wolverine, because it is lame, but its just as lame for the HUlk too. And I'm pretty sure Hulk was more vunerable when he first came onto the scene than he is now, and much much less durable. A lame power is a lame power.

And Hulk regenrated from just a skeleton and pile of guts in Hulk the End....thats what happeend to wolverine, but it's somehow OK with hulk.

I'm with the Roach, the advanced healing factor on the Hulk does'nt deface the character in any way, it merely enhances it somewhat. With Wolverine, it almost goes against the entire character.

Plot wise, the gamma bomb was far more dramatic origin allowing for more crazy powers IMO.

 

[unstoppable]

Wolverine cutting Hulk is the most ridiculous thing ever written.

Just because his claws are made of adamantium doesn´t mean Wolverine has the strenght to slice everything with them.
The claws are not magical artifacts forget by Hephaestus, able to carve electrons outta atoms.
They´re metal.
Unbelievably tough metal but still just an alloy.

If Wolverine had the strenght of, say, Colossus or the Thing, THEN you could make the case that maybe he has what it takes to cut a skin as hard as Hulk´s.


But as it is, Wolverine has only peak human strenght.
Meaning that when they put him slicing metal doors or a Sentinel´s reinforced plating, the writers are already stretching Suspension of Disbelief beyond its limits of elasticity.

You put him cutting Hulk, a creature who can survive nuclear blasts and we´re beyond Suspension of Disbelief and well into the realm of Daffy Duck physics.

I believe it should be able to cut him at least before HULK get's pissed off

 

[Horrorfan]

.You put him cutting Hulk, a creature who can survive nuclear blasts and we´re beyond Suspension of Disbelief and well into the realm of Daffy Duck physics.

Personally, I put suspension of belief aside for someone with the sharpest metal in the world that is known to cut pretty much anything cutting muscle and flesh, more than I would a radioactive bomb being dropped on someone and making them uber powerful, but hey thats me.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Well the reality of it is that in part the shapnes could be enough to get thin cuts.

Something like a samurai sword cutting through bone. Of course, it depends on the relative sharpness to the durability. Of course, I am talking about light cuts and nothing more.

In my opinion though, if Wolverine were in range to use is his claws, he should be put down very quickly by a Hulk who should be at least as fast and should connect even if it was with a glancing blow.

 

[roach]

Well the reality of it is that in part the shapnes could be enough to get thin cuts.

Something like a samurai sword cutting through bone. Of course, it depends on the relative sharpness to the durability. Of course, I am talking about light cuts and nothing more.

In my opinion though, if Wolverine were in range to use is his claws, he should be put down very quickly by a Hulk who should be at least as fast even if it was a glancing blow.

and we're talking about blows from someone in the Class 100 range

 

[roach]

Personally, I put suspension of belief aside for someone with the sharpest metal in the world that is known to cut pretty much anything cutting muscle and flesh, more than I would a radioactive bomb being dropped on someone and making them uber powerful, but hey thats me.

so you believe that a government agency could find a man who can heal from any wound instantly....cut him open and while keeping him cut open(as they'd have to keep cutting him) coat his bones with an indestructible substance and then place six claws inside his forearms and make them respond to his mental commands.....you believe that is his physiology was that advanced it wouldnt reject or expell the additions to his body...over a man being radiated by an exotic form of radiation in a freak accident????

 

[Vanguard07]

Okay here's how i see all this....
If you had a really sharp, high quality steel sword. Lets say a katana and you attempted to cut down a tree with it (not a sapling but a tree) how well would you do? You might get a couple inches into it with the blade but you just dont have the strength to cut through it in one slice. It doesnt matter that the katana is sharp and that steel is stronger than wood. You are not stronger than the tree. you would fail. The same applies (or would realistically apply anyway) to Wolverine cutting the Hulk
Thats how cutting works. Wolverine's claws being adamantium doesnt mean he can cut anything it just means that they will never dull and they'll never break. Anything of sufficient density should just turn his claws aside or stop them dead.

In regards to the Wolverine vs Spiderman argument a couple pages back.
a couple of things come to mind. They're previous fights dont mean anything. People dont do the same thing in every encounter, they learn and they adapt. Both characters have evolved considerably since their origins, both characters can have bad days, both can make mistakes.
Wolverine has beaten Spiderman. Doesnt matter, so have the Enforcers (remember those guys? fancy dan... ox... not exactly spiderman level villains are they but they managed an upset a couple times).
I'm not gonna say that the Wolverine vs Spiderman mini was bad writing (Although realistically that headstone would have shattered almost right away if Spiderman hit with full strength there). I accept that it happened but i look at it realistically. Spiderman made a mistake. He chose REALLY bad tactics against Wolvie despite the fact that Spiderman knows what logan is capable of and despite the fact that Spiderman is usually a VERY smart guy.

Bracing logan's head against something when you hit him is stupid. It basically means you're attempting to punch through his skull which Spidey should know is impossible. If he used hit and run tactics and struck Wolvie while he wasnt braced then whiplash and such would take wolverine out. the more his head moves as a result of you hitting it the more his brain is going to impact the inside of his skull as a result.
Likewise if he just webbed him up (in a position where he lacked the leverage to cut himself free) he'd have won without any difficulty. He'd also be able to kill him that way fairly easilly since he'd be free to strangle Logan while he's immobilized (and even though he can heal from the brain damage that results from asphyxiation, web his throat shut and bury him alive. he'd pass out from asphyxiation and never wake up unless someone dug him up and helped him recover)

Spiderman made a mistake and Logan was lucky enough to turn that into a win. It was luck nothing more.
When you look at their respective abilities logically it is fair to assume that Logan would lose that fight assuming they are both at their best.
Spiderman's best is much much better than Logan's. Logan said himself that he only stands a chance against Spiderman because Spiderman ALWAYS HOLDS BACK and that is exactly the case.

Finally... In regards to Wolverine's character over all... He sucks now. I used to love Wolverine but he was completely different then. I liked him right up untill around when he got his adamantium back from apocalypse. A handfull of arcs after that and he started going steeply downhill for me. Now he's nothing more than a 2 dimensional "badboy" stereotype character and i have no interest. Hopefully he'll eventually go back to being a good character again. He hasnt lost the potential after all. Marvel just isnt smart enough about it yet.

 

[Horrorfan]

so you believe that a government agency could find a man who can heal from any wound instantly....cut him open and while keeping him cut open(as they'd have to keep cutting him) coat his bones with an indestructible substance and then place six claws inside his forearms and make them respond to his mental commands.....you believe that is his physiology was that advanced it wouldnt reject or expell the additions to his body...over a man being radiated by an exotic form of radiation in a freak accident????

You mean what can I accept more: mutation happening in natural evolution, or a guy not only being hit directly with an equivilant of an atomic bomb, and not only being healthy and fine afterwards, but turning into a super strong monster? Gee, what one do YOU think is more likely to happen?

I mean I can accept both, if you ask me, some of you overthink this stuff to the point of stupidty, but if you asking which one is more realistic, well considering mutation happens in nature all the time, and not one person has survived a direct atomic bomb blast on top of them....well you don't need a diploma to figure that one out.


And if that Katana was made of the sharpest metal around that could cut ANYTHING, and you had someone with peak human strength, you better believe that tree would be coming down.



It's already canon, from HULK COMICS, that wolvie can and does cut hulk. No direspect to any of you, but I will take the words of Peter David, who knows the characters well enough to actually write them for a living, over any of you. How comes only like 3 people here appear to have read that issue, considering so many of you claim to be hulk fans???



As for what really would happen in a fight to the death between wolvy and spidey, see the many many times wolverine has killed spiderman in what if?. If spiderman didnt sell so many comics and it was a fight to the death in regular comics, spidey would be pushing up daisys. The what if? Above is what would have happened had wolverine continued to remain in the service of the hand, and that would have meant spidey getting squashed like a bug.

 

[Mr. Smash'n Bash]

Personally, I put suspension of belief aside for someone with the sharpest metal in the world that is known to cut pretty much anything cutting muscle and flesh, more than I would a radioactive bomb being dropped on someone and making them uber powerful, but hey thats me.

The funnying thing with your "Its the sharpest metal in the world so it must be able to cut anything even if you're a weakling" arguement is that it's totaly off base. Heres an experiment for you, Take a titanium knife and try to cut a loaf of bread in half. Can you do it by just touching the bread with the knife? No. It requires strength. Now try and cut a hard cover book in half. Can you do that? I bet not. Just because something is said to be the "sharpest metal in the world" doesn't mean you can cut things without applying your god given strength to it. Hell, Wolverine isn't even super strong.

 

[gambitfire]

^lol that goes against everything Wolverine has ever done.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

so you believe that a government agency could find a man who can heal from any wound instantly....cut him open and while keeping him cut open(as they'd have to keep cutting him) coat his bones with an indestructible substance and then place six claws inside his forearms and make them respond to his mental commands.....you believe that is his physiology was that advanced it wouldnt reject or expell the additions to his body...over a man being radiated by an exotic form of radiation in a freak accident????

Wasn't it clarified in his last origin that the claws were apart of his mutation as a child? I don't think they changed that....yet.
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[roach]

Wasn't it clarified in his last origin that the claws were apart of his mutation as a child? I don't think they changed that....yet.
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sorry i forgot all about that stupid retcon

 

[Genesis 1.0]

With the number of times it's been waxed over, it's understandable.

 

[Varient]

Wolverine cutting Hulk is the most ridiculous thing ever written.

Just because his claws are made of adamantium doesn´t mean Wolverine has the strenght to slice everything with them.
The claws are not magical artifacts forget by Hephaestus, able to carve electrons outta atoms.
They´re metal.
Unbelievably tough metal but still just an alloy.

If Wolverine had the strenght of, say, Colossus or the Thing, THEN you could make the case that maybe he has what it takes to cut a skin as hard as Hulk´s.


But as it is, Wolverine has only peak human strenght.
Meaning that when they put him slicing metal doors or a Sentinel´s reinforced plating, the writers are already stretching Suspension of Disbelief beyond its limits of elasticity.

You put him cutting Hulk, a creature who can survive nuclear blasts and we´re beyond Suspension of Disbelief and well into the realm of Daffy Duck physics.

Heh,...

Or "Two By Four Technology?"

 

[Horrorfan]

^lol that goes against everything Wolverine has ever done.

Don't bring common sense into this argument please


Ultimately it's a comic book, and it's in canon that wolverine can cut hulk, and almost killed him. It's also canon wolverine beat spiderman. Don't like it? Too bad.

Now we can all go in circles *****ing about it and complaining, or accept it and move on. I choose option B.

 

[Mr. Green]

PAD has addressed the "cutting Hulk" issue. Hulk can be cut, but as the fight goes on he heals faster and faster until you can't even tell that he's been cut.

Just a little fun trivia for you guys.

 

[wobbly]

It's already canon, from HULK COMICS, that wolvie can and does cut hulk. No direspect to any of you, but I will take the words of Peter David, who knows the characters well enough to actually write them for a living, over any of you. How comes only like 3 people here appear to have read that issue, considering so many of you claim to be hulk fans???

Ok I have read the issue, I read it at the time it came out (yeah I'm that old) and I can tell you Peter David drastically changed the characters of Bruce Banner & Hulk from anything they had been before. How so? Well he brought back the Gray Hulk and his 'nasty smart' persona, expanded on that by giving Bruce a full blown MPD, later merged those MPD's to give us the 'professor Hulk and of course reduced the Hulk's prior invulnerablility to the point where he could get away with ret-conning the first fight with Wolverine so that Logan had been cutting the Hulk all along (and in doing so allowed for the Hulk to be shown getting visibly cut up and mangled on an all too regular basis from that point on).

However, this 'revealed' healing factor doesn't really fly with continuity as the Professor Hulk, more powerful than the gray version Wolverine cut to peices, was also flayed by Vector, having half his body mass stripped away by that villains powers. Consistent with PAD's revised Hulk perhaps...But...Vector pulled the exact same stunt on the Hulk in the past (pre-Peter David), one under the control of Bruce Banner's mind no less, and couldn't so much as scratch old greenskin's hide.

So though we may like Peter Davids version/s of the Hulk, and many may like the various additions/reveals/ret-cons he brought to the table, it's unfortunately very true that healing factor revision has never sat comfortably with previously established continuity.

 

[roach]

it's also cannon that Hulk beat Wolverine and Spider-man beat the whole X-men team including a simple pimp slap to Wolverine that took him out the fight

 

[Horrorfan]

So though we may like Peter Davids version/s of the Hulk, and many may like the various additions/reveals/ret-cons he brought to the table, it's unfortunately very true that healing factor revision has never sat comfortably with previously established continuity.

But it is still in continuity, and far far better and more intelligent than just ''OMFG HIS SKIN IS TEH SUPER TUFF CUZ OF TEH GAMMAR!''. You can deal with it, or don't.....but for me is credible.

You gotta face the fact, no comic character has 100%, or even 90% continuity. It's revised all the time, and if you are a stickler for continuity, you can't dismiss something because it doesn't ''sit well'' with what came before.


Oh and Roach, I have never said Hulk hasn't beat wolverine....of COURSE he has. And he would win about 6/10 if I am honest. But it's more even than some people like to admit.

And I heard about that spiderman fight...thats cool with me, because wolverine won their only knock down drag out, and has killed spiderman in many realities, including the what if above, and spiderman hasn't killed him once in any reality if I recall correctly from what we know, so I am ok with spidey getting the odd victory. Spidey is capible of taking down wolverine, sure, but most times it goes to wolverine because unlike spidey, he doesnt hold back. If spidey didnt hold back, who knows? But if he went all out, he would stop being the spiderman you know and basically become a wolverine or punisher who can shoot webs and not the character you know and love.

 

[greenrage36]

Well...getting back to the original beef on this post...

I would have to agree with an ealier post..Wolverine doesn't suck per se, it's how he has been written lately that sucks. He's so boring lately ...well, what's the point of even reading the comic(s)?

I have fond memories of him being the scrappy little canuck who would be game to fight anybody even if he knew he was on the losing end. You felt for him, and was rooting for him...now..I can't wait for him to get beat down hard. He is still a great character...but the lil' guy has lost his way and needs to be brought back to his original state.
In reply to Wolvie vs Spiderman...I have no problem with him beating Spiderman. But not easily...and certainly not EVERY time. Spidey is one sharp fighter and would learn from each encounter. Over time...I think Spiderman would be the victor more often then not.
Captain American vs Wolvie..well..this IS Captain America after all..he would find a way to win. Period. He doesn't need to proclaim himself as the 'best there is". He just simply IS. 'nuff said. Besides I always veiwed him as the best overall hand to hand/unarmed fighter in the MU. Wolverine...for sure..he is high on the list...but not on the same level for sheer resourcefulness, or battle savvy. Close...but not quite...so siddown and have another cigar Logan!

 

[Horrorfan]

I still remember that lil alien guy punching wolvie into space for mocking him. That was funny

 

[Zeu]

I wonder...

If Spiderman immobilised Wolverine with his webs and then ripped his head off (guy can lift cars, taking heads off is a walk in the park), would Wolverine regenerate a new body from the neck down?

Or would the headless body regrow a new head?

Or both?

 

[Kool-Aid]

Wolverine beat Loki and Spider-Man got taken out quick. Therefore Wolverine would beat Spider-Man. I haven't faced Galactus yet, but if I beat him with Wolverine then will know that Wolverine could beat Silver Surfer.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Wolverine beat Loki and Spider-Man got taken out quick. Therefore Wolverine would beat Spider-Man. I haven't faced Galactus yet, but if I beat him with Wolverine then will know that Wolverine could beat Silver Surfer.

For anyone wondering if he's on acid, remeber he's playing the Marvel Ultimate Alliance game and somehow correlating it with this debate.
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