Apocalypse Wolverine - The Horseman Death (Or maybe not...)

[hoy-small-fry]

My only gripe with F4 is that they're trying to jam it into the X-Men Universe, and a crossover is not what I want to see

 

[psylockolussus]

My only gripe with F4 is that they're trying to jam it into the X-Men Universe, and a crossover is not what I want to see

It wont happen well at least for the first film.

I'm actually looking forward for this gritty take for F4. I like the X-men films for its edginess and mature take and I want the same thing to F4 as long as it isnt dark as the Batman films. Save the more family friendly tone to Spidey and MCU.

 

[Super Jim]

Based on Kinberg's latest statement, I'm starting to think that we won't get Wolverine as the Horseman Death, like I've surmised.

Here is what he stated:

“I would say in terms of making any character decisions on ‘Apocalypse’ is, we set back the clock on ‘Days of Future Past,’ so a lot could have changed from that point in 1973 forward, meaning people could have been born earlier,” Kinberg said. “The whole world changed after those events. Things that were represented even ‘X1′ and ‘X2′ and ‘X3′ wouldn’t have happened in quite the same way.”

I believe that refers to Angel.

If so, that means that Archangel will be Death, and not Wolverine. That's too bad too, since that would have been a great way to use Wolverine. It would have been fresh and new. At the same time I like the idea of Archangel, though hate, hate, hate the idea of just having him born like 20 years earlier. That's just stupid...

So, other statements he's made makes me think that Wolverine may end up joining with Mystique to be part of her Brotherhood, or maybe (as I've already surmised) Mystique will join Apocalypse.

 

[Duran Man]

I still think it'll be Wolverine.

 

[xrs13]

Dont forget. just because Angel may be the horseman of death doesnt mean wolverine couldnt be war or any other.

 

[Dr. Remy Lebeau]

I agree, I think using Wolverine, on top of Angel, would work nicely. Throw in Mystique and Gambit in there and we will have the most formidable line-up of Horseman since X-men:Evolution.

 

[marvelrobbins]

The horseman may not be called war,death,Famine,Pestilance.Rmember how
they did Hellfire club?

If Gambit Is in film I ma skeptical if he will be horseman.Same as Storm.
Now wolverine and Mystique that's a different story.

 

[Super Jim]

I agree that that could be one way to go, but whenever you have multiple villains someone must be defeated, in a fairly permanent way, if you know what I mean...

Having all four Horsemen as known (and loved) characters would prevent them from being dealt with permanently. You can't kill off a Wolverine, Archangel, Gambit or Mystique.

This is why I've always felt that at least one, if not two or three of the Horsemen would be throwaways or lesser characters. Having Pestilence be Plague allows that character to die of be dealt with permanently. Having Ahab as Famine allows him to escape at the end.

Also, if they go with Archangel that will be a main piece of the story. Turning him into Archangel, dealing with him and saving him will devote a lot of time to him. Then trying to also do the same for Wolverine, Gambit and Mystique would be difficult.

I'm not saying it's not possible that they will use four known and loved characters for the Horseman, just that I think they need to focus on just one, and that has to be the character Death, either Archangel or Wolverine.

Also, there is almost no way they will make Ororo a Horseman!

 

[marvelrobbins]

Probally 1 or possibly 2 of the horsemen may be characters who doesn't talk much and in film only for power disply.

Another question Is are horseman going to be mostly silent servents of apocalypse or will It be like age of apocalypse and have them as actual characters.I could see Magneto as horseman who takes Sinster role from AoA if they do it.However if horseman are mostly silent servents then Wolverine and Mystique might be only familar characters as horsemen.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I don't see magneto becoming a horsemen, I suspect they will want a big action scene with magneto taking on apocalypse.

FC and DOFP have been very magneto heavy and apocalypse will likely be the next step to that so I don't see them watering his role down to be a side villain to apocalypse, even more so if they take some inspiration from AOA

 

[marvelrobbins]

My thinking would be like Sinster In AoA he would start out as general In Apocalypse's army
who then betreys Apocalypse when he sees how far he is going.

Another possibilty though Is Mystique being a horseman could cause magneto and xavier to temporly set their differences aside to free her.Just as there Is chance Xavier may want after events of DOFP to free wolverine.

 

[hoy-small-fry]

If anything, War would suit Logan more. Remember, this is the Logan who remembers fighting in WW1, WW2 etc

 

[pavlov]

Angel - Death
Logan - War
Xavier - Pestilence
Multiple - Famine

 

[Super Jim]

My concern is that they will likely only be able to focus on one "main" Horseman.

If Archangel is Death, then he will be that focus.

If Archangel is not Death and instead it's Wolverine, then he'll be (as always) the main focus.

Having all four of the Horseman be main, known characters will split the story too much. I believe we need a couple (say 2) throw away Horsemen (like Pestilence (Plague) and War (what's his name), another Horseman who is kind of secondary, but can get away at the end so he can return in a future movie (like Ahab) and then the main threat, which almost has to be Death!

 

[marvelrobbins]

It may be 2 they focus on.Wolverine and Mystique.

That could poentily lead to Xavier trying to free WOlverine and that's the explanation now for him losing his har and Xavier and Magneto put aside differences to save Mystique.

 

[Super Jim]

I could see a situation where the X-Men are attacking Wolverine-Death and have the killing blow, but Xavier stops them and guides them that this person is a good man and needs to be saved.

If Mystique is involved with Apocalypse I've got a feeling she won't be a Horseman and will have made the decision to work for him, believeing that he will "save" the mutants.

 

[Loki882]

I'd hate that. DOFP FINALLY established Mystique as her own person with her own goals/ways of doing things (like she is in the comics). To have it be "oh she's her own woman now, cike she's actually working for Apocalypse" would be monumentally disappointing/annoying. If she were forced to become a Horsemen, then fine. But willingly working for Apocalypse, no just no.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Your forgetting comments of Magneto and Mystique become realigned In APocalypse and that Magneto,Xavier,and Mystique's "Origin" Is told over the trilogy.

 

[Loki882]

Magneto and Mystique realigning doesn't automatically mean that it's permanent, or that she's going to be his henchwoman again, and it certainly doesn't equate to her being Apocalypse's lackey either. And I don't like the idea anyway. It kills the whole point of DOFP, to do things differently this time and it undermines Mystique's character development as well. Let her be her own person this time, she's much more interesting that way.

 

[psylockolussus]

I'm thinking for the next film is, Magneto/Mystique/the X-Men are finally gonna work together again like what happened in X2. They wouldn't be hugging and kissing each other but they will help each other to defeat something. I keep thinking about this line from DOFP when Charles said "there's gonna be a time Hank, when we all get together...". That could be a hint to Apocalypse.

 

[Super Jim]

^ So what you guys are really saying is that you would like to see Mystique maybe form her own Brotherhood of Mutants, and maybe that is why she saved Wolverine? Effectiely she wants Wolverine to be on her team, so she took the place of Stryker and maybe she'll have Wolverine go through the adamantium bonding process?

Here's the point, which I think you will agree with...

The fact that it was Mystiaue that saved Wolverine obviously means that she will be connected to whatever happens to him next, which is very likely to include the adamantium bonding. The two logical ways in which this can happen is:

1. Through Strykers facility and process
2. Through Apocalypse or someone like Sinister

A third possibility would be Magneto using his powers, but that seems unlikely. I guess another character with similar powers (Polaris for example) could also do it, but again that seems unlikely.

Maybe I'm missing something, but these seem the likely scenerios.

So if you don't want Mystqiue to be an agent of Apocalypse's, then scenerio 1 is what you're asking for.

I guess Wolverine could be taken by Apocalypse after a battle where Mystique and her Brotherhood (which would include Wolverine) fight him, but that seems unlikely.

And another possibility might be that Mystique was "hired" to get Wolverine for Apocalypse or an agent of his, with the promise of her receiving something that would be important to her. This story wouldn't take away from her development, and in fact it might even expand upon it. The question is, what would be so important to her that she would possibly do something like this (use her powers to obtain and give over another mutant)?

If you have another scenerio for where the Mystique as Stryker storyline can go, please share it...

 

[marvelrobbins]

If magneto doesn't become a horseman then if there Is a brotherhood In Apocalypse It will be led by Magneto.

 

[ciscostudent561]

Loki - you're right on point. I think some people are focusing so much on what happened in the comics then whats going on in the movie universe. Mystique working for Apocalyse is counter to everything DOFP established. It was her story. Thats why the climax was about her making the decision. Charles could have controlled her at that moment but realized it would be the wrong thing to do.

Magneto/Mystique/the X-Men are finally gonna work together again like what happened in X2

oh like when mags turned on the x-men like he always does and tries to wipe out humans? Thats literally how x-2, FC, and DOFP ended. No thanks.
I think the most sense would be Mags being a horseman and Wolverine as well. More drama, higher stakes.


What i don't get is how a team of Storm, Cyclops and Jean can be trained, developed and have a full on fight with APoc that isn't one sided for either way.

Lets face it the X-men are glass canons. I just don't see how they can take one lick from the mighty Apoc, so a back and forth battle would need tremendous suspension of belief.

 

[psylockolussus]

I didnt imply to my post that he would turn against them if they team up again so you're welcome.

 

[Super Jim]

What i don't get is how a team of Storm, Cyclops and Jean can be trained, developed and have a full on fight with APoc that isn't one sided for either way.

Lets face it the X-men are glass canons. I just don't see how they can take one lick from the mighty Apoc, so a back and forth battle would need tremendous suspension of belief.

It's a similar situation to when the new First Class took on and defeated Shaw and the Hellfire Club.

Truth is that Riptide and Azazel alone should have been able to defeat Havok, Banshee, Mystqie and Beast.

The real battle was Shaw versus Magneto/Xavier.

But the point is that by working as a team they were able to win.

The same will happen in this one. I expect it will go something like this...

1. Xavier and Beast will go out and find Scott, Jean, Ororo and maybe another, like Nightcrawler.

2. Mystique will put together her own Brotherhood with characters like Toad, Ink and maybe even Quicksilver (that's a big maybe - but you know he'll be in the film), along with others.

3. Mystique may even have Wolverine in her Brotherhood.

4. Apocalypse will be awoken, or whatever, and have his Horsemen. That may even include Wolverine and/or Magneto, or at a minimum Archangel.

5. This will be an end of the world type scenerio, as far as Apocalypse's plans, meaning everyone (Mystique, Magneot, Xavier, etc.) will have a stake in it.

6. Xavier will train his new X-Men. We will hopefully see the Danger Room (created by Beast maybe???). Storm, Marvel Girl (or just Jean), Cyclops, et al, will be trained to use their powers.

7. Gambit may be there as well.

8. Then the threat of Apocalypse happens and everyone needs to team up to take him down.

9. By working together, as a team, the X-Men will prevail. Maybe Apocalypse will escape so he can come back in a future AOA movie.

Now here is a tough question...

Who will die?

I know, why does someone need to die? Well, actually, someone always dies in order to show us how much the stakes are.

For example, in First Class Darwin was killed by Shaw.

In DOFP, although we didn't see it, Banshee, Angel, Riptide and Azazel were all killed by Project Wideawake, but we also got to see the future X-Men get killed, including Colossus, Blink, Warpath, Iceman and "Sunspot". yes, those weren't permanent, but their deaths showed the stakes.

In X1 Senator Kelly died because of what Magneto did to him. Yes, he wasn't an X-Men, but his death was integral.

In X2 Jean sacrificed herself.

In X3 Jean killed Scott and Wolverine had to kill Jean. Also Professor X was killed.

So you see, someone important always needs to die. The question is, who will it be...