Women beats up fawn to death and claims she was defending herself

[Spidey-Bat]

Sure it is - it's all about intent. A 76 year old lady is far more likely to be scared and intimidated by a live animal than a 20 year old guy.

She does not need to beat the animal to death. I highly doubt she was going to the garden with the shovel which means she saw the deer, went back, got the shovel, and bludgeoned it. She should have called animal control or try to scare it away or ask a neighbor if she was too afraid to do it herself. It is a 25 lb baby deer.

My comparison to Vick was inaccurate but I really hate when people are dismissive of animal cruelty.

I mean how many people run into deers on the side of the road? Should they be prosecuted? This is a deer, not an endangered species. This is one instance, not a history of animal cruelty.

People who hit deers on the road don't intend to do it as this woman did. She tried to scare away other deer by leaving the deer carcass outside her house like a threat. That clearly is not going to work as deer are animals living on their natural instincts.

Whether or not is an endangered species is irrelevant. It was an innocent animal that was brutally killed for no legitimate reason.

It may have been one instance but how do you know she wouldn't have done this to another deer if it happened again? She needs to learn her actions are unacceptable and she should be punished accordingly. Doesn't matter how old she is either.

 

[StorminNorman]

She does not need to beat the animal to death. I highly doubt she was going to the garden with the shovel which means she saw the deer, went back, got the shovel, and bludgeoned it. She should have called animal control or try to scare it away or ask a neighbor if she was too afraid to do it herself.

Now you are making baseless assumptions about her actions.

People who hit deers on the road don't intend to do it as this woman did. She tried to scare away other deer by leaving the deer carcass outside her house like a threat. That clearly is not going to work as deer are animals living on their natural instincts.

Which explains why she put it in a box and put it by the street for trash day.

Whether or not is an endangered species is irrelevant. It was an innocent animal that was brutally killed for no legitimate reason.

We kill all sorts of animals for no legitimate reason.

It may have been one instance but how do you know she wouldn't have done this to another deer if it happened again? She needs to learn her actions are unacceptable and she should be punished accordingly. Doesn't matter how old she is either.

If she does - then you would have a history of animal cruelty and criminal action would be warranted. This is one incident of a scared old lady killing an animal. I think there are far better things the city can be doing...like prosecuting j walkers.

 

[Kirmit]

This is one incident of a scared old lady killing an animal.

Is this not a baseless assumption aswell?

 

[StorminNorman]

Being scared or intimidated is not sufficient reason to brutally kill an animal that has done nothing; especially when the animal in question is not the kind to be aggressive.

People kill deers all the time.

Where does it say that?

I miss read.

Are those instances intentional? For the most part, no.

Why is it okay to hunt a deer, but not attack one that is destroying your property?

However, the instance we're talking about is dealing with inentional harm to an animal without sufficient cause.

Which is done all the time.

Would you let someone go scot-free when caught after committing their first robbery?

This isn't robbery.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Now you are making baseless assumptions about her actions.

As Kirmit pointed out, how is stating she was afraid not making a baseless assumption? She clearly wasn't afraid enough to get close enough to beat it to death. I am only assuming she did not go to her garden with the shovel in her hand and I do not think that is a stretch. I may be wrong but it doesn't justify her beating the thing to death.

And speaking of baseless assumptions: "She said the fawn's eyes contacted hers, like he was going to jump and bite her head off." Clearly this woman is an idiot.

Which explains why she put it in a box and put it by the street for trash day.

Thought I read it in the article. Still, odds are unless she puts up a fence, it's going to happen again. Which means if she wasn't punished now, she was going to do it again.

We kill all sorts of animals for no legitimate reason.

Who are you hanging out with? I don't go around beating animals with shovels. I don't think any rational human being was.

If she does - then you would have a history of animal cruelty and criminal action would be warranted. This is one incident of a scared old lady killing an animal. I think there are far better things the city can be doing...like prosecuting j walkers.

She already has a history of animal cruelty now. 1 instance is enough. It's like saying someone who robbed a store once doesn't have a criminal history. Once you do something, even once, you have a history.

Are you serious? You think jay walking is a more serious offense than killing a baby dear?

And again, where are you getting this "scared little old lady" thing from? She intended to kill the animal. Clearly she wasn't this scared, defenseless old woman you're making her out to be.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

People kill deers all the time.

Hunters have licenses. There are seasons for deer hunting and it is done in certain locations and they use the animal for food. Drivers who kill deers 99% of the time don't intend to. All of it is irrelevant to this and doesn't make what this woman did any less wrong.

Why is it okay to hunt a deer, but not attack one that is destroying your property?

Destroying your property? The thing was eating her plants. She could have put up a fence to protect her plants if she cared that much.

Which is done all the time.

That doesn't make this case or those other cases any less wrong.

This isn't robbery.

No, this is worse. Your point was absolutely asinine to begin with. First time offenders are still offenders.

 

[huskerwebhead]

Which explains why she put it in a box and put it by the street for trash day.

The story indicates the witness talked to her and she wanted to put the carcass on her lawn as a warning. Obviously she didn't do this. We don't really know at this point if the witness is telling the truth or not, that'll be up to the court.

We kill all sorts of animals for no legitimate reason.

What constitutes "no ligitimate reason." Is hunting for sport not a legitimate reason? Cause I sure don't know of many people that just go around killing random animals in inhumane manners.

If she does - then you would have a history of animal cruelty and criminal action would be warranted. This is one incident of a scared old lady killing an animal. I think there are far better things the city can be doing...like prosecuting j walkers.

Again, I go back to what I said...this is a 25 lbs fawn. It's no more dangerous than a human toddler....probably less. It would have likely ran away when she got too close or just sat there terrified. Assuming she was terrified, which is mind boggling, then how does she survive in the world of toy poodles and kittens. Oh the horror!!

People kill deers all the time.

People kill adult dear, and generally only bucks, for sport and food. And you have to have a license to do it legally.

Why is it okay to hunt a deer, but not attack one that is destroying your property?

Stop equating a fawn to an adult dear, it's not the same thing. That's like saying adult men punch each other all the time, why can't I punch a toddler?

Which is done all the time.

Examples?

This isn't robbery.

No, it's not. It's animal cruelty...which is a crime.

 

[Batman713]

She's 76, let this **** pass...

 

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

Well good, at least only one person here is out of touch with reality.

edit: 2

 

[huskerwebhead]

She's 76, let this **** pass...

While I don't think the full punishment is necessary, she needs to know this is not acceptable. Some fine would probably be sufficient to make her think twice. What happens when the neighbor's dog poops in her lawn? BAM! Shovel to the head. Unacceptable.

 

[The Guard]

Wait a tic...

A FAWN?

I read "fawn" and thought "doe".

This is much worse.

Ugh.

 

[StorminNorman]

As Kirmit pointed out, how is stating she was afraid not making a baseless assumption? She clearly wasn't afraid enough to get close enough to beat it to death. I am only assuming she did not go to her garden with the shovel in her hand and I do not think that is a stretch. I may be wrong but it doesn't justify her beating the thing to death.

The fact that she mentioned she was afraid about the fawn jumping up and attacking her indicates that she was at least some what scared.

And speaking of baseless assumptions: "She said the fawn's eyes contacted hers, like he was going to jump and bite her head off." Clearly this woman is an idiot.

Luckily in American being an idiot isn't a punishable offense.

Thought I read it in the article. Still, odds are unless she puts up a fence, it's going to happen again. Which means if she wasn't punished now, she was going to do it again.

Except now she knows its wrong. To quote another article on the event

Clifford Johnson, another neighbor, said, "She's scared, she's 75, she made a horrible mistake, but it's gotten to the point where people are calling her and talking about killing her."

Who are you hanging out with? I don't go around beating animals with shovels. I don't think any rational human being was.

Ever drive home? How many bugs do you kill? Ever laid down a mouse trap? We kill animals all the time and don't think a second thing about it - why is a dears life more valid than a rats?

She already has a history of animal cruelty now. 1 instance is enough. It's like saying someone who robbed a store once doesn't have a criminal history. Once you do something, even once, you have a history.

Except, again, this is not the same as a robbery. In a robbery, there is another human victim. In here, there was no human victim.

Are you serious? You think jay walking is a more serious offense than killing a baby dear?

I think neither instance are serious.

And again, where are you getting this "scared little old lady" thing from? She intended to kill the animal. Clearly she wasn't this scared, defenseless old woman you're making her out to be.

She's 76 and was afraid the animal was going to attack her.

Hunters have licenses. There are seasons for deer hunting and it is done in certain locations and they use the animal for food. Drivers who kill deers 99% of the time don't intend to. All of it is irrelevant to this and doesn't make what this woman did any less wrong.

Again, we kill termites, rats, bugs - all sorts of animals that wreck our property (in this case garden) all the time. We have also established that deer are not some endangered animal worthy of protection as it is one of the biggest game animals out there. So I don't understand the outrage.

Destroying your property? The thing was eating her plants. She could have put up a fence to protect her plants if she cared that much.

The thing was wrecking her garden. Her garden is her property.

No, this is worse. Your point was absolutely asinine to begin with. First time offenders are still offenders.

Not all crimes are equal.

 

[StorminNorman]

Well good, at least only one person here is out of touch with reality.

edit: 2

Yes, I am the one out of touch in reality. The one that doesn't give some mystical appreciation of a deer making it's life more valid than that of any every day pest we kill with no second thoughts.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

The fact that she mentioned she was afraid about the fawn jumping up and attacking her indicates that she was at least some what scared.

The fact that she was afraid of a 25 lb fawn jumping up and attacking her is ridiculous. If she had the shovel with her before she saw it, she could have tried scaring it away or defending herself with it. If she went back to get the shovel, she should have called animal control if she was afraid.

Luckily in American being an idiot isn't a punishable offense.

We're not talking about charging her for being an idiot.

Except now she knows its wrong. To quote another article on the event

So? Doesn't mean she shouldn't be charged for what she did.

Ever drive home? How many bugs do you kill? Ever laid down a mouse trap? We kill animals all the time and don't think a second thing about it - why is a dears life more valid than a rats?

Bugs getting hit by your car and catching rats in the house is not the same as bludgeoning a fawn lying in your garden.

Except, again, this is not the same as a robbery. In a robbery, there is another human victim. In here, there was no human victim.

Oh, so only crimes against humans matter?

I think neither instance are serious.

Unfortunate.

She's 76 and was afraid the animal was going to attack her.

She was afraid of a 25 lb fawn biting her head off. And as I said above, if she had the shovel before she saw it, she has a way to defend herself or scare it away. Deer are timid and skittish creatures and rarely attack (the ones that do are usually adults). If she didn't have the shovel, she should have called animal control or asked a neighbor to try to scare it off.

Again, we kill termites, rats, bugs - all sorts of animals that wreck our property (in this case garden) all the time. We have also established that deer are not some endangered animal worthy of protection as it is one of the biggest game animals out there. So I don't understand the outrage.

You really don't see the problem with her brutally killing a fawn over some plants? And adult deer are hunted, not fawns. You need a license to hunt and deer hunting is only done in certain times of the years. As I said, whether or not it is endangered is irrelevant. That doesn't mean brutally killing one should be acceptable.

The thing was wrecking her garden. Her garden is her property.

You say below "not all crimes are equal." Yet you make a generalized statement that "the deer was destroying her property." You're right, not all crimes are equal. Having your garden chewed up by animals is not the same as someone driving a car through your house. But you don't seem to care when it benefits your position.

Not all crimes are equal.

Clearly you think that since you don't think any situation where a human is not a victim is relevant at all.

Yes, I am the one out of touch in reality. The one that doesn't give some mystical appreciation of a deer making it's life more valid than that of any every day pest we kill with no second thoughts.

You're out of touch with reality because you don't think people should be held accountable for any action if there is no human victim, especially if it is their first offense and they later realize their mistake.

 

[The Battousai]

That SN can defend this woman is ludicrous...

 

[bullets]

Her story doesn't add up . She went from trying to get the fawn to leave using a shovel to just bashing in it's skull because It wouldn't move. If she was so afraid she should of went back into the house.

 

[knowsbleed]

Oh deer.

 

[StorminNorman]

The fact that she was afraid of a 25 lb fawn jumping up and attacking her is ridiculous. If she had the shovel with her before she saw it, she could have tried scaring it away or defending herself with it. If she went back to get the shovel, she should have called animal control if she was afraid.

Fear makes people do stupid things.

So? Doesn't mean she shouldn't be charged for what she did.

Well your point was that she needs to learn what she did is wrong. I think she learned her lesson. If she kills another deer, I would look at this differently - but I think this is a case of a 76 year old woman being scared and making a mistake. I don't see a reason to ruin an old ladies life over the death of a deer.

Bugs getting hit by your car and catching rats in the house is not the same as bludgeoning a fawn lying in your garden.

How is intentionally killing a rat in your house different than intentionally killing a deer wrecking your garden?

Oh, so only crimes against humans matter?

As a human I care more about crimes of humans. This isn't like the Mike Vick case, this isn't the same as some teenager killing cats because he thinks it's cool - this is a case of an old lady making a mistake.

She was afraid of a 25 lb fawn biting her head off. And as I said above, if she had the shovel before she saw it, she has a way to defend herself or scare it away. Deer are timid and skittish creatures and rarely attack (the ones that do are usually adults). If she didn't have the shovel, she should have called animal control or asked a neighbor to try to scare it off.

And if it happened again, I bet she would. And if she didn't, I would be all for throwing the book at her.

You really don't see the problem with her brutally killing a fawn over some plants? And adult deer are hunted, not fawns. You need a license to hunt and deer hunting is only done in certain times of the years. As I said, whether or not it is endangered is irrelevant. That doesn't mean brutally killing one should be acceptable.

Again - why is it okay to kill a rat, but not okay to kill a deer?

You say below "not all crimes are equal." Yet you make a generalized statement that "the deer was destroying her property." You're right, not all crimes are equal. Having your garden chewed up by animals is not the same as someone driving a car through your house. But you don't seem to care when it benefits your position.

Did I claim that the deer chewing up her property was a severe crime? No. I was simply mentioning the fact that we kill garden pests all the time.

Clearly you think that since you don't think any situation where a human is not a victim is relevant at all.

Obviously, because that's exactly what I have said...

You're out of touch with reality because you don't think people should be held accountable for any action if there is no human victim, especially if it is their first offense and they later realize their mistake.

Again, I have never said that.

That SN can defend this woman is ludicrous...

Ever used a mouse trap? You better not have, or else you are a terrible evil human being!

 

[StorminNorman]

Her story doesn't add up . She went from trying to get the fawn to leave using a shovel to just bashing in it's skull because It wouldn't move. If she was so afraid she should of went back into the house.

Maybe the shovel was...you know...in her garden?

 

[Wiseman]

Oh deer.

I saw this thread this morning and couldn't think of something witty to say. So I walked away feeling like I have failed myself everytime I saw someone else post in here. But none of them came up with anything decent so I at least felt a little better. You show up and with no effort come up with something so funny, so beautiful, so simple, it's astounding.

 

[StorminNorman]

I still love you, Wiseman. :heart:

Though in this thread, you may not want my love.

 

[Wiseman]

I still love you, Wiseman. :heart:

Though in this thread, you may not want my love.

Screw them Norm, I'm always on your side

 

[knowsbleed]

 

[Wiseman]

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Fear makes people do stupid things.

Too bad. She should still deal with the conscequences of her actions.

Well your point was that she needs to learn what she did is wrong. I think she learned her lesson. If she kills another deer, I would look at this differently - but I think this is a case of a 76 year old woman being scared and making a mistake. I don't see a reason to ruin an old ladies life over the death of a deer.

I don't take the word of the criminal. She should she brought before a judge and jury and they decide her decision.

How is intentionally killing a rat in your house different than intentionally killing a deer wrecking your garden?

Does she live in her garden?

As a human I care more about crimes of humans. This isn't like the Mike Vick case, this isn't the same as some teenager killing cats because he thinks it's cool - this is a case of an old lady making a mistake.

Too bad. She still deserves to be brought into court over this and be punished for it.

And if it happened again, I bet she would. And if she didn't, I would be all for throwing the book at her.

I don't wait a 2nd time to throw the book at someone.

Did I claim that the deer chewing up her property was a severe crime? No. I was simply mentioning the fact that we kill garden pests all the time.

You made a generalized statement that the deer was "destroying her property." Which is ironic since you care so much about the fact that she claims to have been scared and that she's a 76 year old woman making a mistake and not some younger person killing an animal for ****s and giggles.

Regardless, having your garden chewed up by deer is not grounds for bludgeoning one to death.

Obviously, because that's exactly what I have said...

Yes, you did.

Again, I have never said that.

You did. Read your posts.