Wonder Woman Script

[jmc]

I already pointed out that the MCU has set itself in "our world" by establishing real people (Stephen Hawking, Bill Maher, Barack Obama, Eiffel 65, etc.) to be real as well as real issues such as terrorism. MOS has yet to do that. Is the way in which people and the government in MOS respond very real? Yes but at the same time, there is still a level of suspense of disbelief when it comes to that. You still has to suspend your disbelief that Metropolis will be rebuilt pretty fast, nobody will file a lawsuit against Superman for the collateral damage, the government won't violate people's privacy to find out where superheroes are hiding, etc.

Here is what you don't understand. The only realistic thing about the DC universe they built is the way in which people and the government react to the events that occur which, as I said, is still not fully realistic due to reasons I stated above. Everything else in this universe is what you would consider to be "neutral" so there is no need to do major alterations like that. Yes, MOS is a sci-fi film but that is because Superman is a sci-fi story and there is no room for magic in there, in the same way how there is no room for magic in a Batman film. Magic will be established as present when Wonder Woman is brought in. As Llama_Shepherd said, tension should be built up leading to JL. MOS has established that we are not alone and no longer at the top of the food chain. We could easily get crushed by a race such as the Kryptonians. People will turn to religion for comfort. However, what happens when actual Gods show up? Not only will our knowledge of space will then be challenged but also our beliefs. That should be followed by Flash, challenging what we believe to be our physics, followed by Aquaman challenging our belief of what is history, following our beliefs of what the human body's limits (Batman), etc.



That's not my point. My point is that most people will be able to accept science and magic existing in the same world that MOS established because they believe them to exist in real life. Whether or not they can or do co-exist in real life is another subject altogether (I am an atheist so I don't believe they can) but that doesn't change the fact that most people believe that. And if most people believe that, why would the idea of Wonder Woman existing in the same world as MOS turn them off?



Del Toro said he would set it in the same world as MOS if he ever gets the chance to direct it.

Mate, if you're incapable of stepping back and looking at both films series objectively then there's really no point in me trying counter argue because you've already made up your mind about the situation. You the think the Marvel universe is suppose to be an extension of real life in the same way that MoS tried to be? Fine, you can look at it that way, but WB isn't and thus you won't be getting magic or gods or monsters when Wonder Woman comes into the scene. Don't like it? Don't watch the film, simple as that really.

 

[Shikamaru]

Mate, if you're incapable of stepping back and looking at both films series objectively then there's really no point in me trying counter argue because you've already made up your mind about the situation. You the think the Marvel universe is suppose to be an extension of real life in the same way that MoS tried to be? Fine, you can look at it that way, but WB isn't and thus you won't be getting magic or gods or monsters when Wonder Woman comes into the scene. Don't like it? Don't watch the film, simple as that really.

Alright. Fair enough.

 

[jd23]

Shouldn't this be part of the other Wonder Woman thread at this point?

Haha yes. Thank you.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

So WB doesn't want to stick to the core of Wonder Woman and her history and world because they "want to be different from Marvel"? Oh really.

Is WB really so arrogant that they look at all the different superhero franchises that Marvel has made successful, while still staying true to the core of what they are and where they came from, ALL THE WHILE integrating all of them into one universe pretty seamlessly, and think "we can do better than that"? How? By asking for a Wonder Woman script to have WW and her entire race have Kryptonian DNA just to justify her being able to crossover with Superman?

Oh, and by having her decide to wear her iconic costume because one of her friends got raped? How tasteful...

Marvel's track record of making successful movie franchises out of their characters is far greater than what WB and DC has put out. Maybe that is because they know something the executives at WB don't know.

Stick to the core of the characters and what they are and handle their movies with care and quality and effort and you will be successful and make lots of money. Marvel has done that with Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and The Avengers. WB has only done that with Batman and Superman. That is why only Batman and Superman have been as successful for WB as all those superhero movies I mentioned have been successful for Marvel, all the while other DC heroes' big screen efforts have flopped.

Only Batman and Superman seem to be successful on the live action movie side of things, but that is because both of those characters were lucky enough to get great directors and writers that loved and respected them enough to stick to the core of the characters and their origins and handle the movies with care and quality. Maybe that is why they are the only two DC characters that are actual franchises for WB and have been for 30+ years. Because they are the only ones that have been allowed to be made properly.

Maybe if they did the same for Green Lantern, it wouldn't have flopped the way it did.

They should do that for Wonder Woman and Flash and every other hero they plan to bring to the big screen. Stick to the core. Get quality filmmakers and writers and producers who love and respect the characters and what those characters are about and give them the resources they need to make them successful.

There is no need to overthink bringing the DC universe to the big screen. A mass audience isn't going to not see a Justice League movie because the MOS sci fi tone is crossing over with a Wonder Woman that has her mythology intact, so there is no reason to remove that mythology from her movie or add stupid "dark & gritty" elements for no reason other than "it works for Batman". Wonder Woman is not Batman and is not Superman, and neither is the world she exists in when she is not crossing over with the other DC characters. Respect that.

Damn, that is a long rant. Did I even make sense? Sorry, all this stuff I am hearing about this script and what WB might be thinking, it just has me shaking my head. The fact that people are defending this possible approach as if it was a good idea is even more puzzling to me.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I just don't buy any of it brother/sisters. I don't think the WB execs actually think things like "the audience cannot accept MOS being in a universe with all the other DCU heroes so we must change all their origins in a haphazard way to fit within it's scifi world, even if it deprives said heroes of their uniqueness and inherent dignity".

 

[theOVOXO]

Completely agree Andrew. Part of the reason why the WW DTV worked was because the character and her mythos was taken very seriously and treated with respect. Which is what a WW live action film seriously needs if its actually announced.

 

[jmc]

I just don't buy any of it brother/sisters. I don't think the WB execs actually think things like ''the audience cannot accept MOS being in a universe with all the other DCU heroes so we must change all their origins in a haphazard way to fit within it's scifi world, even if it deprives said heroes of their uniqueness and inherent dignity''.

Changes get made all the time to fit a film makers visions. Again, just because you don't like one idea that changes a characters back story doesn't mean it's a bad one. You're assuming the worst.

 

[Lord]

Changes get made all the time to fit a film makers visions. Again, just because you don't like one idea that changes a characters back story doesn't mean it's a bad one. You're assuming the worst.

This is a bad change, it's changing the characters mythos that exists for more than 75 years, and with this deed you delete Ares and many other characters.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Changes get made all the time to fit a film makers visions. Again, just because you don't like one idea that changes a characters back story doesn't mean it's a bad one. You're assuming the worst.

And I think the position that somehow audiences will not accept Wonder Woman WITHOUT those changes assume the worst of the GA.

 

[jmc]

This is a bad change, it's changing the characters mythos that exists for more than 75 years, and with this deed you delete Ares and many other characters.

No, having her be a dental hygienist called Susan who gets her powers from eating a contaminated bowl of cereal is changing the mythos. Changing her back story from being created from Gods to being created from the embers of Krypton is not a bad change, it's a logical one.

 

[jmc]

And I think the position that somehow audiences will not accept Wonder Woman WITHOUT those changes assume the worst of the GA.

Who outside these forums actually knows her back story? Show me one member of the GA who's going to go ape **** crazy that she won't be interacting with Greek gods.

 

[Kryptonian Titan]

This is a bad change, it's changing the characters mythos that exists for more than 75 years, and with this deed you delete Ares and many other characters.

It's a horrible change. Amazons created by ''bacteria from Krypton"?
What a stupid idea.

 

[jmc]

The concepts of gods creating life is stupid if you want to get real technical. Ever heard of the Mars-Earth theory? It's the same concept proposed with Krypton.

 

[Kryptonian Titan]

The idea is stupid. Fact. It has absolutely no relation to WW's mythos.
But I guess some posters will anything WB throws, and call it brilliant. LOL.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Who outside these forums actually knows her back story? Show me one member of the GA who's going to go ape **** crazy that she won't be interacting with Greek gods.

You are right about her origin not being known by everyone and his brother. I concede that.

But that's not what this is about. It's about the idea that the GA just cannot in any way accept WW's classic world of Greek mythology and magic being in the same fictional universe as MOS. And across multiple media through the many decades all comic book superheroes have existed since Action Comics #1, the mass audience whether through radio programs (Batman and Robin guest starring on the Superman program) Cartoons (Filmations JLA/Superfriends/Justice League Unlimited/Young Justice), live action TV series (Smallville) and now the big screen (everything MARVEL STUDIOS) the mass audience has indeed been able to grasp that heroes with differing origins can and do exist in the same universe whether scifi based, magic based or more mundane swashbuckler types.

And I know some would say that this is different. I will quote a great puppet. "NO... No different. Only different in YOUR mind."

 

[jmc]

The idea is stupid. Fact. It has absolutely no relation to WW's mythos.
But I guess some posters will anything WB throws, and call it brilliant. LOL.

No, it's called adapting to the cards dealt by Man of Steel. Some of you need to your head out of the comic books and see the films for what they are - not comic books.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

No, it's called adapting to the cards dealt by Man of Steel. Some of you need to your head out of the comic books and see the films for what they are - not comic books.

"Mate", I loved MOS. Yet as a traditionalist, if you will, I should have been pulling my hair out at some the things they did in that film. Yet I bought it whole hog. So I am open to the new my friend. But I just can't understand people saying that in a universe where a MOS Superman exists every other characters must now have their classic origin changed/altered in small or dramatic ways because the ticket going public cannot and will not understand that the fake science of Krypton can exist along side the fake magic of WW's greek gods. Again, that's what this is about.

 

[Lord]

Who outside these forums actually knows her back story? Show me one member of the GA who's going to go ape **** crazy that she won't be interacting with Greek gods.

Who of the GA actually knew Captain America's origin when the 90s film was released? Yet they changed it and the film sucked, these kind of adaptations don't really have a good track record when it comes to changing important elements, even Thor being an alien or not was played very subtly and most people i know didn't even notice that.

No, having her be a dental hygienist called Susan who gets her powers from eating a contaminated bowl of cereal is changing the mythos. Changing her back story from being created from Gods to being created from the embers of Krypton is not a bad change, it's a logical one.

You're exagerating with an even worse change, that's like saying: Hey, i know your son was hit by a car and won't be able to move his legs, but look at that dead person over there, in least he's not him.

The GA doesn't really know Wonder Woman's past because studios like WB haven't made any real effort in recente years to let them know. The franchise's greatest asset is its universe being different, her movie can be the first superhero movie with a female lead that doesn't suck, and not bringing the mythology aspect to illustrate that she also has an interesting story of her oun is huge mistake.

This script basically turns her into female superman, that simply can't be done, it would be like deleting Krypton, Zod and all the other aliens from Superman and making him a genetically engeneered supersoldier created on earth just to make it more "realistic".

I think there are more than enough posts that illustrate what i mean very well. Superman, Batman, Thor, Green Lantern, Aquaman, etc. All of them have their characters + a mythos that has been passed on for centuries, it defines their characters and makes them stand on their oun against other similar superheroes. there's a legacy to respect.

And it doesn't even go down just to the legacy, their mythology is also central to their stories, thanks to this mythos the plot almost writes itself.

Like Spider-Man, Wonder Woman has 3 main nemesis: Ares, Cheetah, and Circe.

Do you notice anything in particular from that list? It's that 2/3 are characters where magic is necessary, Cheetah can be done genetically (and even then i think the best way to introduce her would be by being turned by Circe or something like that). In my opinion Ares is WW's most central nemesis, he's the oposite of what she represents and is present in most of her origin stories, and what is he? A GOD.

To get the character right you need to get the foundation right, Superman has aliens, Batman has more real life threats, and Wonder Woman has Magic.

 

[jmc]

You are right about her origin not being known by everyone and his brother. I concede that.

But that's not what this is about. It's about the idea that the GA just cannot in any way accept WW's classic world of Greek mythology and magic being in the same fictional universe as MOS. And across multiple media through the many decades all comic book superheroes have existed since Action Comics #1, the mass audience whether through radio programs (Batman and Robin guest starring on the Superman program) Cartoons (Filmations JLA/Superfriends/Justice League Unlimited/Young Justice), live action TV series (Smallville) and now the big screen (everything MARVEL STUDIOS) the mass audience has indeed been able to grasp that heroes with differing origins can and do exist in the same universe whether scifi based, magic based or more mundane swashbuckler types.

And I know some would say that this is different. I will quote a great puppet. "NO... No different. Only different in YOUR mind."

But this is different. Man of Steel isn't any of those things you mentioned, it's its own beast, it was created with the intent of being in its own universe with only one character in mind. Everything else you've mentioned was a universe created to be inclusive of everyone in the DC universe not just one. It doesn't matter whether Superman and Wonder Woman have hung out in every other incarnation of a shared universe, what matters is how you get those characters to shared the same universe using the rules set up by MoS. Everyone on this board knows full well MoS was originally never going to be the launching pad for a DCU, but now some of you are trying to make out like this universe is just like every other universe containing these characters, that it's as Easy as A+B=C - it isn't. You can't look at past examples because this isn't the same, and no amount of saying 'yeah but...' is going to change that. Man of Steel is the one that set the rules for the universe, if you want other characters involved you've got to work around those rule, you don't change them to suit your needs. You can either accept that or not, I don't care. Is any of what I've read here my preference? No, but I can live with certain alterations in order for fit the world MoS started.

 

[jmc]

Who of the GA actually knew Captain America's origin when the 90s film was released? Yet they changed it and the film sucked, these kind of adaptations don't really have a good track record when it comes to changing important elements, even Thor being an alien or not was played very subtly and most people i know didn't even notice that.


You're exagerating with an even worse change, that's like saying: Hey, i know your son was hit by a car and won't be able to move his legs, but look at that dead person over there, in least he's not him.

The GA doesn't really know Wonder Woman's past because studios like WB haven't made any real effort in recente years to let them know. The franchise's greatest asset is its universe being different, her movie can be the first superhero movie with a female lead that doesn't suck, and not bringing the mythology aspect to illustrate that she also has an interesting story of her oun is huge mistake.

This script basically turns her into female superman, that simply can't be done, it would be like deleting Krypton, Zod and all the other aliens from Superman and making him a genetically engeneered supersoldier created on earth just to make it more "realistic".

I think there are more than enough posts that illustrate what i mean very well. Superman, Batman, Thor, Green Lantern, Aquaman, etc. All of them have their characters + a mythos that has been passed on for centuries, it defines their characters and makes them stand on their oun against other similar superheroes. there's a legacy to respect.

And it doesn't even go down just to the legacy, their mythology is also central to their stories, thanks to this mythos the plot almost writes itself.

Like Spider-Man, Wonder Woman has 3 main nemesis: Ares, Cheetah, and Circe.

Do you notice anything in particular from that list? It's that 2/3 are characters where magic is necessary, Cheetah can be done genetically (and even then i think the best way to introduce her would be by being turned by Circe or something like that). In my opinion Ares is WW's most central nemesis, he's the oposite of what she represents and is present in most of her origin stories, and what is he? A GOD.

To get the character right you need to get the foundation right, Superman has aliens, Batman has more real life threats, and Wonder Woman has Magic.

You don't need to lecture me on WW mythology, I'm more than aware that magic plays a role in her mythology, and if she was given her own self contained universe to play in I'd be in line with what you and others want. But she has to fit in a universe that isn't suited to that type of thing, which means things have to change. Does it mean removing Ares? Yes, Circe? Perhaps, there may be away to adapt her, but overall she still has to fit the MoS world. Again, read through this thread, the core fundamentals of who she is appears to be in tact, Paradise Island is there, Trevor crashes into it, there are Amazons - it's still there! That's what some of you are over looking, you're pointing to one area and crying bloody murder instead of looking at it as a whole. It's an alteration that makes sense in the context of the MoS world, this happens all the time in these movies.

 

[Lord]

But this is different. Man of Steel isn't any of those things you mentioned, it's its own beast, it was created with the intent of being in its own universe with only one character in mind. Everything else you've mentioned was an universe created to be inclusive of everyone in the DC universe not just one. It doesn't matter whether Superman and Wonder Woman have hung out in every other incarnation of a shared universe, what matters is how you get those characters to shared the same universe using the rules set up by MoS. Everyone on this board knows full well MoS was originally never going to be the launching pad for a DCU, but now some of you are trying to make out like this universe is just like every other universe containing these characters, that it's as Easy as A+B=C - it isn't. You can't look at past examples because this isn't the same, and no amount of saying 'yeah but...' is going to change that. Man of Steel is the one that set the rules for the universe, if you want other characters involved you've got to work around those rule, you don't change them to suit your needs. You can either accept that or not, I don't care. Is any of what I've read here my preference? No, but I can live with certain alterations in order for fit the world MoS started.

It's called an expancise world, you're not going to have magic in The Man of Steel because it didn't have any purpose in that story, some fans like to say Nolan's Batman or this superman can't be set in a greater DCU because they're too realistic, but there are dozens of comics stories way more realistic that still took place in that shared universe.

Batman: Year One is way more realistic than Batman Begins, yet it takes place in the DCU, you don't see magic or heroes because tthis story is being told in a different perspective. The Man of Steel didn't set any rules that deny magic, it only stated who was the first costumed hero and that aliens are real, nothing more, no different than Iron Man, and that film actually showed that earthly threats and terrorismo are real, yet it lead into an alien invasion film with a team-up with a norse god.

The DC comics began with each character as their oun creation and universe, and later they all had to team-up to face a greater threat, that's what makes DC different, each franchise has the room to breathe and develop before joining together.

Why should you have aliens in Batman, or magic in Superman? They have their oun problems going on and their oun mythos to take care of.

 

[jmc]

I give up. I may as well be talking to a brick wall. Have fun people.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's called an expancise world, you're not going to have magic in The Man of Steel because it didn't have any purpose in that story, some fans like to say Nolan's Batman or this superman can't be set in a greater DCU because they're too realistic, but there are dozens of comics stories way more realistic that still took place in that shared universe.

Batman: Year One is way more realistic than Batman Begins, yet it takes place in the DCU, you don't see magic or heroes because tthis story is being told in a different perspective. The Man of Steel didn't set any rules that deny magic, it only stated who was the first costumed hero and that aliens are real, nothing more, no different than Iron Man, and that film actually showed that earthly threats and terrorismo are real, yet it lead into an alien invasion film with a team-up with a norse god.

The DC comics began with each character as their oun creation and universe, and later they all had to team-up to face a greater threat, that's what makes DC different, each franchise has the room to breathe and develop before joining together.

Why should you have aliens in Batman, or magic in Superman? They have their oun problems going on and their oun mythos to take care of.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THANK YOU!!!! t:

 

[Lord]

I give up. I may as well be talking to a brick wall. Have fun people.

Don't worry, we feel exactly the same

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I give up. I may as well be talking to a brick wall. Have fun people.

I think I would be more open to your perspective if you gave me a compelling reason why A. The audience could not accept the idea of alien superheros and magically based superheroes. B. What in MOS, what about MOS so absolutely precludes this. What in the narrative/plot/characters ect. makes this impossible. I've seen it six times brother/sister and nothing jumps out at me. Sorry.