Wonder Woman villains: a discussion thread

[Loki882]

No to Circe giving Cheetah her powers. The latter has her own backstory and origins and it should stay that way. Ad she should be no one's pawn.

Also no to making her an Amazon, that misses the whole point.

 

[Jonwo]

If they use Cheetah, I wonder if they'll go to the mocap route, make up or a bit of both? Having seen Beauty and the Beast, I think it's possible it could done just with motion capture but it does depend what look they would go for.

 

[Boom]

They'll need to pony up and get Weta Digital if they go the mo-cap route.

 

[Jonwo]

They'll need to pony up and get Weta Digital if they go the mo-cap route.

Digital Domain did the motion capture and CGI for Beast in Beauty and the Beast which worked well so they'd be good as well as MPC who did the CGI for The Jungle Book. Weta would be awesome but there are other options if they're too busy.

 

[p4poetic]

Circe would be great.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think Cheetah presents a problem in terms of visuals. Werecats read as less powerful than gods. Having Cheetah go toe to toe with Diana is a mistake. If this is supposed to be Diana's intimate villain, that is, the one who was a history lover and a friend and then is corrupted by mystical power, then let her be that. The knock-down-drag-out fight was actually one of the weakest parts of Wonder Woman. Trying to force the idea that cats > gods down the audiences throat isn't going to take, it's going to feel inauthentic. That's okay, villains don't have to be ones that go toe to toe with heroes. Joker wasn't. Loki wasn't. That's what makes them archenemies, they're not primarily physical foes, though they, with planning, do become physical threats.

It also would be a mistake to just do Cheetah on her own. She carries the people-into-animals theme right alongside Circe, and so even if Cheetah doesn't get her powers directly from Circe, Cheetah needs a villain around who can go toe to toe with Diana, Circe needs a personal villain around, Cheetah can lead an army of Circe's man-beasts. I'm not saying it writes itself, but, there's no better secondary villain in WW's gallery for either of these two, and both need a backup villain, just like Joker did, just like Pierce did.

Alternately, you're basically saying you can do Circe OR Cheetah, because after fighting Cheetah, you can't really do ANOTHER movie where Diana fights werepeople, without communicating that that's the type of people Wondy fights in the present, maybe since all the gods are dead? Weird.

I think the Circle works much better for a threequel. They literally are all about coming full Circle on Diana's origin and home.

 

[terry78]

Well, they explain how she gives her such a hard time in the books by saying the artifact pretty much rivals her own power.

 

[DrCosmic]

I mean you can explain to me how a cowboy has future tech and that's why he can go toe to toe with Superman, but the motif still makes Terra-Man a dumb villain. Cheetah has a lesser version of that problem. While some people are flexible, there's a huge number, maybe a majority, of people who would suck at rock paper scissors if you say "No, Rock beats Paper in this game." Explaining Cheetah being Wonder Woman's physical equal, you almost have to explain why gods have been perceived as more powerful than cats in all of fiction, and why that's wrong.

In any case, you have to develop the audience's emotional investment in her abilities to go toe to toe with Zeus' daughter, and not just say "Oh, well these are godly gummi bears, that's why Gummi Guy can go toe to toe with her," beause the words don't keep it from looking weird. You have to redefine how the audience sees cats. Which is a good thing, because her animated appearances always seem to boil down to being catty and being beat down by Wonder Woman, leaving many questions about how this became Diana's archnemesis in the first place.

 

[WBwins]

The First movie dealt with War.I think the next one shld deal with extremism.
Have Wonderwoman fight with an ISIS like terrorist organisation who does atrocious acts in the name of the Greek god's.The head of this Organisation will be Circe.

 

[DrCosmic]

That would be a huge departure for the character and their motivations. If they were going to do something like that I think Dr. Psycho or Max Lord would be a better fit.

 

[Loki882]

Cheetah has the powers of a god, that's why she can go toe to toe with WW. This idea of "well she's a werecat, so we cannot do this," or "well it wouldn't be believable" or whatever, is nonsense pure and simple. Jeez, and some fans accuse screenwriters/filmmakers of "being uncreative" or "lacking imagination."

 

[Silvermoth]

We haven't really talked about casting for Circe yet. Who should play her? Juliane Moore? Frances Mcdormand? Daryl Hannah?

 

[WBwins]

That would be a huge departure for the character and their motivations. If they were going to do something like that I think Dr. Psycho or Max Lord would be a better fit.

I think its fits perfectly with her.Ancient Sorceress leading an Evil cult.Perfect fit.

Making the Evil cult similar to ISIS was my idea of making them feel contemporary and modern.

Circes man beasts wld also be a part or aid this cult

 

[Tg11]

We haven't really talked about casting for Circe yet. Who should play her? Juliane Moore? Frances Mcdormand? Daryl Hannah?

Lucy Lawless

 

[metaphysician]

Ehhh. . . I can't really see Circe leading an evil cult that is *that* anti-woman. She'd be more likely to just roll in and brainwash or transform everyone on a whim.

 

[Silvermoth]

I reckon it would be interesting if Circe was attempting to knick the throne. They might even want to make it a bit more interesting by maki Circe like a second wave feminist who is only interested in white feminism and turns the island into something it's not.

Then it's a good opportunity to bring in Nubia

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Cheetah has the powers of a god, that's why she can go toe to toe with WW. This idea of "well she's a werecat, so we cannot do this," or "well it wouldn't be believable" or whatever, is nonsense pure and simple. Jeez, and some fans accuse screenwriters/filmmakers of "being uncreative" or "lacking imagination."

That's not the problem. It's how to portray a werecat as dangerous to a superpowered character. Usually monsters are the attacking normal people with no advantage. That's what makes them dangerous.

I mean what is the advantage making her a werecat have over just a woman in a Cheetah coat with the same abilities and motivation?

 

[CaptainCanada]

I mean what is the advantage making her a werecat have over just a woman in a Cheetah coat with the same abilities and motivation?

Werecats are much more dangerous in appearance.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Werecats are much more dangerous in appearance.

Apocalypse is more physically intimidating and powerful than William Styker but X2 is miles as a better movie.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Apocalypse is more physically intimidating and powerful than William Styker but X2 is miles as a better movie.

Total non sequitur.

You asked why the werecat was better than a woman in a cheetah costume "with the same abilities and motivation". I answered. If she's poorly written, then she'd be poorly written regardless of how she looks. Wearing a cheetah costume wouldn't improve anything (indeed, it would almost certainly look risible).

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Total non sequitur.

You asked why the werecat was better than a woman in a cheetah costume "with the same abilities and motivation". I answered. If she's poorly written, then she'd be poorly written regardless of how she looks. Wearing a cheetah costume wouldn't improve anything (indeed, it would almost certainly look risible).

It's not a non-sequitur.

Cheetah has been presented as Priscilla Rich/woman in cheetah outfit vs Barbara Minerva/werecat. No one has presented why one is better than the other other than her powerset/look being dangerous. Apocalypse is dangerous too(he can physically fight 5 X-men by himself), but powerset is not what makes a compelling villain.

I assume a compelling villain is what we're choosing from, cause there are many more physically dangerous looking villains in her gallery.

So what's so compelling about the Barbara Minerva version in comparison to the Priscilla Rich version? (Assuming the writers would be picking and pulling from various source materials anyways)

 

[Primal Slayer]

Somewhere wearing a Cheetah coat/costume is definitely looks less dangerous then a woman who is actually a cheetah which was their general point....

vs

But when you get past just the looks, Barbara Minerva's story is a lot intriguing and fits WW better since she is a direct opposite. WW, born a god, Minerva cursed by a god. Diana a curator of antiquities, Minerva an archaeologist. Priscilla Rich is just a rich girl who was jealous of WWs fame and practically ended up developing a 2nd personality.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Is it?

plus

Get's us somewhere around this?(yeah it's cartoony style but you get the point)lol

But when you get past just the looks, Barbara Minerva's story is a lot intriguing and fits WW better since she is a direct opposite. WW, born a god, Minerva cursed by a god. Diana a curator of antiquities, Minerva an archaeologist. Priscilla Rich is just a rich girl who was jealous of WWs fame and practically ended up developing a 2nd personality.

But someone with a split personality (like McAvoy in the movie Split) is often the villain no? And WW finding a way to not demonize mental health and save the person is a good message of seeking to help and not just punching it to submission.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Split also caused an uproar about mental health always being used to villainize someone so it may not be the greatest controversy for WW to be part of. It could be a compelling story but personally I think Barbara has the better one to tell, especially since she befriends WW beforehand .

But it is very popular to combine character traits so for all we know we could end up with Priscilla Minerva. Rich archaeologist who becomes obsessed with WW, skins a Cheetah and wears it only to cursed into becoming a real one.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Split also caused an uproar about mental health always being used to villainize someone so it may not be the greatest controversy for WW to be part of. It could be a compelling story but personally I think Barbara has the better one to tell, especially since she befriends WW beforehand .

That's what I want. WW wanting to help and not demonizing mental health. Not casting her as the villain despite everyone else trying to make her including Cheetah.

But it is very popular to combine character traits so for all we know we could end up with Priscilla Minerva. Rich archaeologist who becomes obsessed with WW, skins a Cheetah and wears it only to cursed into becoming a real one.

So full disclosure

That image comes from Wonder Woman's Wednesday Comics. Which was Priscilla Rich with an archaeologist background added to make her basically a tomb raider. I had just discovered WW so when I learned that they combined Minerva with Rich, it made me wonder what was so special about Minerva's version which I never really found an answer to.