Worst MCU movie?

[Ragnaroknroll]

I personally enjoyed Whedon's take on Ultron but I also understand why some people were disappointed. He certainly was not what a lot of comic fans expected. I would very much like to see an evolved more vengeful Ultron return but a lot of folks think he already burned his 15 minutes of fame. Considering Hydra's unexpected resurgence I'm holding out hope that it might happen someday. Would like Spader to have a shot to really scare the pants off of us.

I'm probably one of 3 people on the planet that actually liked Darcy and thought she was funny. She won't be back though for Ragnarok and I have high hopes that Waititi will bring us something special for Thor in perhaps his last outing.

I can't remember that quip. I have to watch IM3 again. It's been awhile since I've seen it.

 

[Alex Murphy]

I personally enjoyed Whedon's take on Ultron but I also understand why some people were disappointed. He certainly was not what a lot of comic fans expected. I would very much like to see an evolved more vengeful Ultron return but a lot of folks think he already burned his 15 minutes of fame. Considering Hydra's unexpected resurgence I'm holding out hope that it might happen someday. Would like Spader to have a shot to really scare the pants off of us.

I'm probably one of 3 people on the planet that actually liked Darcy and thought she was funny. She won't be back though for Ragnarok and I have high hopes that Waititi will bring us something special for Thor in perhaps his last outing.

I can't remember that quip. I have to watch IM3 again. It's been awhile since I've seen it.

I THINK he's referring to the one about "the prodigal son".

 

[gildedmuse]

You're mistaking quips for comedy. Ultron's personality comes at least partially from Stark. It's what helps to create his daddy issues, which is part of what makes him so human. A robot just being a robot is hardly a villain at all; it's when that robot goes step further that things get scary. The whole reason Whedon used Ultron was because he wanted a more personal villain which Ultron is, not because he's just another killer machine, but because he's very much a creature of his creators with all their very human flaws.

Stark doesn't quip to be funny. It's a trait that has been in every single one of his appearances, but just to reiterate, Tony makes those remarks as a defense mechanism. They act much like his suit. The distance him from the situation, they create a mask of false bravado and apathy that he can hide behind. It's just like gallows or trench-men humor. I swear, so may people ask why would you make a joke in that moment. People make jokes while sitting in the electric chair. They make them with the hangman's noose around their necks. Look up famous last words and you'll find a great deal of them have an element of comedy to them even in the most solemn situations. It's almost as though that is a very real, human way to react when events would otherwise overwhelm you.

I could argue that punctuating a sad scene with moments of humor actually makes for more poignant works than straight up melodrama that you have to slog through, but a person's emotional reaction to those moments is so imperative that even a solid debate isn't going to change any minds. It's like Iron Man III. Some fans had such a charge emotional reaction to being "cheated" of the Mandarin they were promised that even pointing out to them that part of the movie is commenting on how that very villain type is a false image created by the American people because it is far more comforting to believe there is a madman vaguely "foreign" terrorist out there who hates us for our ideals than it is to see the bad guys in suits all around us. Like that is addressed in the film, and yet people sit around wondering why the filmmakers didn't give them a vaguely foreign terrorist threat.

 

[gildedmuse]

I personally enjoyed Whedon's take on Ultron but I also understand why some people were disappointed. He certainly was not what a lot of comic fans expected. I would very much like to see an evolved more vengeful Ultron return but a lot of folks think he already burned his 15 minutes of fame. Considering Hydra's unexpected resurgence I'm holding out hope that it might happen someday. Would like Spader to have a shot to really scare the pants off of us.

I'm probably one of 3 people on the planet that actually liked Darcy and thought she was funny. She won't be back though for Ragnarok and I have high hopes that Waititi will bring us something special for Thor in perhaps his last outing.

I can't remember that quip. I have to watch IM3 again. It's been awhile since I've seen it.

If it makes you feel any better, I was right there with you believing I was some kind of freak for actually liking Darcy. Then, as the MCU started to get more popular, I spoke to people outside these boards.

It's weird because based on what I've read here you would believe that Darcy was put in the films just to upset people. There is a sort of unanimous agreement that of course everyone hates Darcy. If you had nothing to go on but these boards and you went to watch a Thor film you would be cringing the whole time waiting for what must be one of the worst characters in cinematic history to appear.

Then in my experience with people in real life - or even just on other parts of the internet - I have never met a single person who outright hates Darcy. I mean, sure, a lot of those opinions seem to be neutral ("Oh yeah, I liked her," they'll say only after you have reminded them who she is) but then most of my friends and an honestly surprising number of online fans just honestly love Darcy. It's the totally opposite end of the spectrum. There are sites I visit and groups I hang out with where the assumption is of course you like Darcy. She tazed Thor. Good for her. She's awesome as far as most people with a strong opinion either way seem to think. Like... it's weird the total flip between here and out there.

My only guess is that 'here' tends to be more male driven while other places I hang out are largely female populated. Which isn't to say that guys can't like Darcy - she is easily my brother's favorite Thor side character and possible his second favorite MCU Original after Jemma - or that girls can't dislike her. However, I do think she is very much a female audience stand in. She's hanging out in a world with super scientist and what have you but she's just poly-sci student, she accepts all the wacky scifi hi-jinks but not without a snarky comment or two, she totally tazed the crazy big dude. Yeah. She's totally a female audience stand in. So women are more likely to give her a pass - she's easy to identify with and also kind of a anomaly - 98% of the time your every man character is, well, a man. So for guys who:

A. Have plenty of every man characters in plenty of other films to the point where their existences is i no way any sort of treat and is, indeed, more so the opposite with those characters being the norm.

B. Do not often find films asking them to take the female perspective, not even in such a minor way (Darcy isn't the POV character, after all, just a sidekick acting as the audience surrogate).

C. Are certain kinds of fans, specifically those already predisposed to dislike any original noncomic book based characters and who - having been acquainted with Thor for a while now or having built up certain expectations - wanted a nonEarth based story

Darcy seems entirely pointless. After all, she's a symbol of Thor's story being Earth-bound, and since they aren't getting any thrill from experiencing an audience surrogate who actually reflects you, she seems entirely unnecessary. I guess at some point feeling she's unnecessary to the plot turns into something much deeper. Maybe it's just that people around here always seem to take a passionate view of these things, positive or negative, so they can't just dismiss the Darcy character. They really have to hate her.

The you have the sort of opposite reaction outside of here since not only is seeing yourself in the female every man a rarity on it's own, this time it's in a comic book movie. (!!!!) I mean, she gets to comment on Thor's so obviously over the top chest but also she tazers him when he freaks her out, because that's a very familiar feeling being with a guy like three times your size and he's cute sure but also acting really freaking weird and you WISH you were the type of girl who would be all proud of herself for not hesitating to tazer that wacko. But also it's okay because later you get to see him shirtless and you totally live tweet his whole breakfast experience. So yep, easy for me to understand why certain communities give Darcy so much love because she's a super rare female audience stand in in a geek movie.

 

[Flint Marko]

If it makes you feel any better, I was right there with you believing I was some kind of freak for actually liking Darcy. Then, as the MCU started to get more popular, I spoke to people outside these boards.

It's weird because based on what I've read here you would believe that Darcy was put in the films just to upset people. There is a sort of unanimous agreement that of course everyone hates Darcy. If you had nothing to go on but these boards and you went to watch a Thor film you would be cringing the whole time waiting for what must be one of the worst characters in cinematic history to appear.

Then in my experience with people in real life - or even just on other parts of the internet - I have never met a single person who outright hates Darcy. I mean, sure, a lot of those opinions seem to be neutral ("Oh yeah, I liked her," they'll say only after you have reminded them who she is) but then most of my friends and an honestly surprising number of online fans just honestly love Darcy. It's the totally opposite end of the spectrum. There are sites I visit and groups I hang out with where the assumption is of course you like Darcy. She tazed Thor. Good for her. She's awesome as far as most people with a strong opinion either way seem to think. Like... it's weird the total flip between here and out there.

Yet another reason why places like this aren't a great representation of the general audience. If you didn't know any better, you'd swear everyone hates Iron Man 3, Thor 2 was one of the worst superhero movies of all time, Dark Knight Rises was a catastrophic disappointment, etc.
When they originally screened Thor for test audiences, everyone loved Darcy so they added more of her in the final film. So don't worry, you're certainly not alone.

 

[Alex Murphy]

Yet another reason why places like this aren't a great representation of the general audience. If you didn't know any better, you'd swear everyone hates Iron Man 3, Thor 2 was one of the worst superhero movies of all time, Dark Knight Rises was a catastrophic disappointment, etc.
When they originally screened Thor for test audiences, everyone loved Darcy so they added more of her in the final film. So don't worry, you're certainly not alone.

Iron Man 3 is my favourite Iron Man movie. I love Trevor Slattery and hope to see more of him one day. Thor: The Dark World is not one of the worst superhero movies of all time, IMO, but it's pretty bad. I think The Dark Knight Rises is the worst of the trilogy but I still love it anyway. And I like Darcy.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

@gildedmuse, Great analysis mate. Cheers!

Everyone has their opinions but it seems to often come with a healthy dose of hyberbole on this site.

 

[2002SpideyFan]

The Killiandarin

I wanted to throw up after I read that. Is this guy for real? He calls a white guy by the name of Chinese character whose name refers to feudal China where Mandarins were a cruel feudal lords during the Chinese imperialism. It's like calling a white guy by the name of Abimbola.

He really believes that Killian was not just only an actual interpretation of the Mandarin, but was actually a good one? On every Mandarin related topic he continues to defend Aldrich Killian, calling him an actual representation of the comic book Mandarin... So we will eradicate the character, basically, from all his definitive trademarks, such as race, rings, ideology, powers, origin, personality, and even the name, but it still be the Mandarin from the comics, right?

Mandarin's origin isn't about him spending anyone's money on his training and betraying something. Stan Lee based his origin of Henry Pu Yi, the last emperor of Qing dynasty. Both Mandarin and Pu Yi were highborn men with dignity who lost all their patrimony and legacy after formation of the communist government. In case with the Mandarin, that situation led him into him forming a distrust for the governments and authorities, thus he began to believe that no one other than him is entitled to control the state of this world, thus he became very anti-governmental and he began fighting against governments and politics.

Mandarin is all about dignity, honor, respect, and sophisticated philosophy of life. Mandarin was based of Chinese cultural stereotypes, and China has the most influential philosophers in the world. He is driven by the philosophical outlooks of abstract and literal concepts. Mandarin doesn't care about materialistic agendas, at all.

Mandarin is an emblematic exemplification of ideologies of rational individuality and individual supremacy.

Mandarin is a manipulative genius that uses different methods and schemes to achieve his ultimate goals. His businessman persona, which originated in 1973, is his facade, and it’s not a true reflection of his personage. He uses that facade only to facilitate his agendas and achieve his tasks. Deep down he still has a mentality of an oriental insurrectionist who wants to sequestrate the world and then re-conceptualize it under his own agendas and principles. In case with Killian, the facade was the real man behind everything.

Mandarin possesses purely cerebral needs that have nothing to do with greed or avarice, which elaborately illustrates the fact that Mandarin wants to destroy every existing social, governmental, national layer out there, because his whole attitude revolves around his philosophy to sequestrate all the authorities and legislatures in order to reorganize himself into the only prevailing authority of the world, whose goal is to re-govern and re-conceptualize the world as it is. His character was never about inserting fears about orientals and profiteering on something. He is all about accumulation of power and authority and about pure ideals and sophisticated Epistemology of life.

Killian wasn't the Mandarin. Just stop feeding people with that nonsense.

Mandarin:

Aldrich Shi**tyvillian:

 

[metaphysician]

And aside from a few relatively unimportant details like skin color, he was indeed the Mandarin: a guy who abused the power of the state to turn himself into the macho sociopath image of a superior human, and then used that power to turn the world into a place of endless conflict for his personal benefit and to exalt self-indulgent "survival of the fittest" ideology. He also got to karate chop Tony's armor off.

 

[2002SpideyFan]

And aside from a few relatively unimportant details like skin color, he was indeed the Mandarin: a guy who abused the power of the state to turn himself into the macho sociopath image of a superior human, and then used that power to turn the world into a place of endless conflict for his personal benefit and to exalt self-indulgent "survival of the fittest" ideology. He also got to karate chop Tony's armor off.

Michael, why you're writing here from a different account? You have to spread your nonsense from different accounts? Killian was not the Mandarin, and I don't know how many times I have to tell you that.

1. Mandarin's race is not an "unimportant detail". It's the essential part of his character, since it explains everything about his life philosophy, attitude, and his favoritism towards China and why he has strong national pride, and it plays huge part in his origin, since he was born in pre-revolutionary China.

2. Mandarin didn't abused power of the state. He turned himself into an anti-governmental, anti-establishment anarchist who wanted to eradicate world from authoritative control after he was oppressed by the new-formed government of his homeland. His origin is reminiscent to the life of Henry Pu Yi, who was the last emperor of China.

3. Killian wasn’t a sociopath. He was a generic white businessman who had problems with greed and temper.

4. Mandarin's benefits were purely ideological and theological. He believed in the idea that the world needs radical fixing, thus he has to sequestrate the authority and control from every political/social layer, because he's the only one who deserves to make this world his own and re-conceptualize it under his own paradigm. Killian was a greedy profiteer who wanted to make money.

5. "karate chops" is such a valid argument, right? Melter also was able to tear apart Iron Man’s armor. So, I guess, he’s also the Mandarin?

Mandarin:

Aldrich:

You see the differences?

Let's try it again.

Comic book Mandarin:

Not Mandarin:

See? It's very simple to understand.

 

[Salutations]

Thor: The Dark World. I had high hopes for it since I really liked the first Thor, but it just felt bland and unmemorable. To be honest, I don't think I've watched the Blu-Ray copy of it that I have.

 

[OcStat]

I like how all the Killian images above are pre-extremis.

 

[NotNickFury]

Hard one, but Thor: The Dark World might be the only MCU film I regret seeing in theaters because aside from Loki transforming into other characters, nothing about this film was memorable to me and it's why I'm not going to see Thor: Ragnarok on its opening weekend. Maybe wait until the week after or so.

Not to say The Dark World is a bad movie. It's well made and the production values are as high as the first one, even if that means enduring Katt Dennings again, but of all the MCU films, for my money, it's the weakest part of Phase II and least memorable film of the MCU.