Sequels Would you be okay with Venom sans symbiote in a sequel?

[TheSlag]

Because it was changing Peter from the beginning as well into a monster that was Venom in its final form.

It was enhancing emotions, it would NOT cause spikes/etc. It's not that much of a stretch to think "Alien Goop" can enhance like that.. that a Suit that is organic can do the same. It's a fickin super hero movie about a guy that can stick to walls and has super strength, and spider-sense... And a Genetic conversion of a Man to a Lizard for crying out loud.

And worse.. a man conversion from a Carbon based life form to a Silicate Life Form... Come on???

I understand IF your opinion is you prefer the "Alien Goop" AGAIN... but to argue that the suit would not be realistic and grounded.. where the alien goop would.. in a superhero movie.. is just silly IMO.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Woah, woah, woah, what? 616 Venom didn't have unnecessary spikes that Ultimate Venom had.

 

[TheSlag]

Easy. (and this is the part I love about the alien origin)... it's an alien entity.

We're used to seeing aliens look like this

and whatnot... so throwing in the simple explanation that it's an alien symbiote that's actually feeding on the host, and amplifies characteristics such as aggression of its host, whilst having its own form of consciousness, doesn't seem too crazy.

But. If you're going with the scientific route, with points such as "it makes the wearer stronger" (you can have the host looking bigger while encased in that goop) but there's no plausible reason as to why he'd look like something out of a childs nightmare.

Now if it's a little deeper (I saw a nervous system explanation somewhere) than the cancer suit, I'd definitely like that over a alien origin.

There's benefits on both sides, but I'd definitely like to see a re-worked cancer suit on screen, as opposed to "oh yeah, it came from outer space".

I agree that the suit should do more than simply enhance strength, it should be tied to the Host's nervous system, DNA, and genes.. as in Gene splicing. Which all included (considering a superhero movie where some suspense of belief is required) could easily explain such "mutations".

And like you, I prefer the organic suit approach over the alien goo.. just because Raimi and Co did such a terrible job handling it... that it left a bad taste in my mouth. And it is a way to distinguish it from the Raimi verse too.

 

[TheSlag]

Woah, woah, woah, what? 616 Venom didn't have unnecessary spikes that Ultimate Venom had.

If that is directed at me, I have no clue what you're talking about?? And I have never even seen Ultimate Venom... or read an ultimate. I am just stating I would rather see the Suit approach to Venom if the character is brought back (and I think he should be brought back).

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Just my two cents.

I like the suit angle if they go with Venom. It's just better in conception and makes more sense for Webb's more grounded approach to the series. So I highly doubt Webb would go the alien route. I also like the way the USM version of Brock is connected to Peter and the fallout that occurs over the differences in their parents work. Peter wants to destroy the only remnants of what is left of their work. Eddie wants to use it and salvage what is left of their work/memory. Simple, direct and powerful motivation for Eddie to hate Peter. It's a much richer well to draw from then the alien angle IMO. I Never liked that. If 616 Venom had a better concieved origin, he might have been my favorite Spidey villian. But he didn't, so he never was.

 

[Troy_Parker]

I agree that the suit should do more than simply enhance strength, it should be tied to the Host's nervous system, DNA, and genes.. as in Gene splicing. Which all included (considering a superhero movie where some suspense of belief is required) could easily explain such "mutations".

And like you, I prefer the organic suit approach over the alien goo.. just because Raimi and Co did such a terrible job handling it... that it left a bad taste in my mouth. And it is a way to distinguish it from the Raimi verse too.

Mhm.

So do we all agree that the cancer suit (with some re-working) would be better than the alien goop?

t:

 

[Anno_Domini]

If that is directed at me, I have no clue what you're talking about?? And I have never even seen Ultimate Venom... or read an ultimate. I am just stating I would rather see the Suit approach to Venom if the character is brought back (and I think he should be brought back).

I was mentioning how the Ultimate Venom was much more impossible because it had spikes all over while the 616 Venom just had fangs and a long tongue.

Then you said...

It was enhancing emotions, it would NOT cause spikes/etc

which is regards to...616 or Ultimate? If you were mentioning 616, then you're mistaken, and if you're referring to Ultimate, then you yourself are making a complaint about the spikes on Ultimate Venom.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Just my two cents.

I like the suit angle if they go with Venom. It's just better in conception and makes more sense for Webb's more grounded approach to the series. So I highly doubt Webb would go the alien route. I also like the way the USM version of Brock is connected to Peter and the fallout that occurs over the differences in their parents work. Peter wants to destroy the only remnants of what is left of their work. Eddie wants to use it and salvage what is left of their work/memory. Simple, direct and powerful motivation for Eddie to hate Peter. It's a much richer well to draw from then the alien angle IMO. I Never liked that. If 616 Venom had a better concieved origin, he might have been my favorite Spidey villian. But he didn't, so he never was.

Good points all round. t:

 

[TheSlag]

I was mentioning how the Ultimate Venom was much more impossible because it had spikes all over while the 616 Venom just had fangs and a long tongue.

Then you said...



which is regards to...616 or Ultimate? If you were mentioning 616, then you're mistaken, and if you're referring to Ultimate, then you yourself are making a complaint about the spikes on Ultimate Venom.

LOL whatever.. here I thought I was just saying I like the organic suit approach over the alien goo.. spikes.. no spikes.. whatever.. And for the record... I hate the spikes... but I associate the spikes with Carnage vs. Venom.

But I am sure in some incarnations of the character, they have had spikes.. does not mean that Venom in the movies should have spikes though.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Good points all round. t:

I usually don't favor anything in USM vs. the classic, but I always loved this arc in Bendis run. That Peter could potentially have a brother -type person in his life, which eventually disintigrates into hatred . It's this aspect even more then the suit origin that I think could be great on film.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

The OP should have put a poll on this topic, it seems for the most part most of us agree some type of man-made suit as opposed to an alien suit is the preferred way to go if rebooted Spider-Man introduces Venom. The debate now seems to be whether it should originate as the "medical suit " or that "military suit" I mentioned.

I like the Bendis idea which is how I came up with that OPERATION: V.E.N.O.M variation of his idea, I just changed the point of origin and the intended purpose and added that V.E.N.O.M acronym.

I just think as a military originated product it lends more credence as to why the thing would be so adept in combat, concealment, agility, and other offensive and defensive confrontational situations. I feel it would just blend into an action story more seamlessly than a suit that's just designed for "healing" a patient. Also it would lend well to the dual nature of the Venom character (which is the one big thing missing from the Raimi version) as a form of A.I. evolved from a technological/organic substance it could become self aware and allows for reasoning for the suit to speak through the wearer in terms of "we" and "us" like it does in the comics instead of speaking in terms of "I" and "me" like it did in Spider-Man 3.

As far as "why would it have a big tongue and fangs" and all those questions some of you are asking that just a simple matter of metamorphosis that you see in lots of characters (ie: Hulk, Abomination, etc)

Whether it be medical or military I think we mostly agree the Spider-Man reboot Venom should stay away from 'alien goop'....right?

 

[Troy_Parker]

Yes.

I like the medical route leading into the military route though, best of both worlds. lol

What starts as something that's designed with honest intentions, eventually gets taken over by a shady organization who tweak the suit further to their purpose for the suit.

 

[Nevincer]

Doesn't matter, they didn't go the Ultimate route in Raimi's flick and the Symbiote/Venom story still sucked ass. Let's stick with the classic villains, shall we.

I have a question, and it's not directly referring to the above quoted post, but it did trigger it. I see a lot of people around these forums, and movie forums in general, claiming after Spider-Man 3 that Venom is either a terrible villain or clearly can't be done justice on screen just because the third Raimi movie screwed up on it.

I guess my question is, is it really true? I mean, you could really make the same arguement for Bane from Batman & Robin who is now the lead villain in TDKR, or Mr. Freeze which might be a bit fairer, because like Venom he had an animated one shot that people adore, and people still seem to want him to get an adaption in a future live action movie.

I know there has been a lot of project ideas, namely Lord of the Rings, where people claimed it was impossible/too ridiculous to pull off beforehand, and they arguably ended up getting a home run despite some critics.

Don't get me wrong, it's probably too early to see him again after SM3, but I really wouldn't mind it. I always found that the symbiote (not the cancer suit) was a very interesting concept, I liked how it challenged Peter in new psychological ways, whereas if you keep adapting the classic villains I think you're going to end up getting a lot of the same ideas/elements and a feeling of redundancy. Just my two cents.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

Yes.

I like the medical route leading into the military route though, best of both worlds. lol

Best suggestion I've seen, have them both.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Best suggestion I've seen, have them both.

t:

 

[Spiderman6592]

What "spikes" are people referring to on Venom?

That's Ultimate Venom. Where are we getting this idea that he has spikes on him?

 

[Troy_Parker]

 

[Troy_Parker]

That's also Ultimate Venom.

With spikes on him.

 

[Lord]

Those are not spikes, they're teeths

 

[Spiderman6592]

Hm. Never even noticed that before. Good catch. Ya, I don't have an explanation for that, unless Trask and Co. developed it further in a way to include those. Don't know though.

 

[Troy_Parker]

What I found somewhat amusing is the Ultimate Venom looked more alien than 616 Venom, at most times.

I dig Ultimate Venom's look though.

 

[Spiderman6592]

Well, I mean they look pretty much identical. USM's penciler made him a bit more detailed and, dare I say, realistic.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I knew about the spikes all over the place, but didn't notice them on HIS TONGUE. Gosh Ultimate Venom can look ******ed at times

Those are not spikes, they're teeths

Those aren't teeths, these are teeths

 

[©KAW]

lol, he's cute venom baby with a talking tummy.

 

[TheSlag]

lol, he's cute venom baby with a talking tummy.

LOL.. Yep.. that TOTALLY blew chunks!