Comics Would you cancel all Spider-Man books if they killed off MJ?

[webhead731]

I just stick to Ultimate Spider-Man usually. Are we talking about Amazing Spider-Man?

That costume looks like crap on him by the way. The Iron-Spider one.

 

[DACrowe]

Don't give that man a toothbrush either!

I really see most people bbeing pissed if this happens. It just would ruin the spirit of the comics and just is a **** you to what makes this character good. Joey Q really doesn't get the character, does he? He is supposed to grow and change, not stay in stasis. That is why he is having problems writing the couple because he wants them in stasis.

Why not let them try for a baby and not be able to have one after the drug that still-born baby May from GG? Put that hinderance on them. JMS writes her great but they hardly use her IMO. And why does he hate the character so much, if he kills her I think all fans will be pissed. But who knows in about a year's time he'll be eating lunch with Mac Gargan who says "he killed your wife and daughter" and Peter will go "You're still B-list" or something and that will be the equivalent of respect given to her fallen character.

You see Joey Q wants to kill her but within a year make her your lousy Clone Saga which Marvel has pretty much said never happened now.

 

[Norman Osborn]

I tend to be less concerned about assasinating characters as I am assasinating characterization....but that's just me (That's not to imply I'm in favour of killing MJ...I'm not...but it alone wouldn't compel me to cancel all my Spidey titles......it requires a healthy dose of "Other" and "Sins Past" to accomplish that feat.....JQ...Mission accomplished!!)

 

[MattXG]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

They should just end the 616 Spidey.


I mean wouldn't it be more beautiful to say goodbye to the whole thing rather than watching the character be destroyed through bad writing out of desperation?


I mean the book is 40+ years old....how many stories can their be that are still untold? Wrap it up. People in the real world are getting divorced fast enough...don't need superheroes re-enforcing the idea with their own failed relationships..


I've been saying this for awhile. They should restart the series every 15-20 years. Do a retelling of sorts. Keep the soul of the title alive....Always have a kid named Peter Parker, always get bitten by a Spider, always live with his aunt and uncle and his uncle gets killed. Then, tell the story from their however they want. This way the story doesn't run on too long where you get to the point that Spider-Man is an accidental god and he eats someone's head and gets his eye ripped out and gets useless stingers and gets hypnotized by toothpaste and wasn't the real Spider-Man anyway only to find out that he was later and ...well you get the point.

It would also make it easier for new comers to get into the series. I can't stand not knowning stories from the very beginning and for me to get 616 Spidey from the very beginning, I'd have to dig through 40 years of comics just to end up where we are now with what I listed above and Spidey being Iron man's ***** and now maybe no MJ? Hell no. What would be the point in that?

My rant about the situation....

 

[Dragon]

They've already done what you ask, both in the form of Ultimate Spider-Man and the re-boot, with varying success.

But a restart isn't the answer. Quality writing, artwork and editing is.

I've said it before as well- I've never been fully onboard with the Spider-Marriage. During Conway's run, there was a nice build-up to Peter and MJ getting together, and I was totally in favor of it. Obviously TPTB weren't, since during Len Wein's run, Peter and MJ essentially went back to just being friends. I was recently re-reading the Hamilton/Goblin arc (Which was better than I remembered). And each time Peter ran into MJ, it was like back when Peter was with Gwen- they acted like old buddies, not like two people in love or even infatuation. Then there was Peter's proposal, that was completely out of left-field, and only because he felt lonely and envious of the relationships Harry and Flash were having. MJ turns him down and that appeared to be the final nail in the coffin, with Marv Wolfman filling the grave with soil by making it doubtful they could reconcile.

So 4 years later they bring her back, make it clear she's not interested in Peter romantically and Peter "moves on" (If it could be considered such) to Black Cat. Then after that even worse relationship choice ends- they have Peter again out of left field, propose to MJ. No further development as to why these two should be together. It didn't help their case in my book that this period had some of the absolutely worst writing in Spider-Man's long history. Then of course they toss in the supermodel thing. On the Peter-MJ appreciation thread there are tons of postings of pages between them. And for me, those postings underline just how poorly this marriage has been handled. They speak to each other in platitudes. They don't simply talk. Someone compared MJ's speech to Peter about why it was time they made love after their separation to the work of Stan Lee. And that's totally wrong, and pinpoints the problem. People can look at Stan's work as dated. Maybe it is, as he was writing to a specific time. But the difference is- that Stan wrote people communicating with each other. Relating to each other. that's why the relationships always rang true. Guys like JMS, write people talking AT each other. Doing dramatic monologues meant to present the idea
of who they are and the power of their situation across. It's artificial. I mean MJ's speech was the most unsexy way of saying she wanted to have sex.

The marriage happened during the worst years of Spider-Man, and for me is a symbol of that.

So, no. I wouldn't stop buying Spider-Man if MJ was killed off. However- I would stop buying the comics just because MJ is being killed for the same reasons that the writing has been consistently bad. So her death certainly won't signify any kind of new and glorious era for Spidey. Just the same damn crap.

 

[Themanofbat]

They've already done what you ask, both in the form of Ultimate Spider-Man and the re-boot, with varying success.

But a restart isn't the answer. Quality writing, artwork and editing is.

I've said it before as well- I've never been fully onboard with the Spider-Marriage. During Conway's run, there was a nice build-up to Peter and MJ getting together, and I was totally in favor of it. Obviously TPTB weren't, since during Len Wein's run, Peter and MJ essentially went back to just being friends. I was recently re-reading the Hamilton/Goblin arc (Which was better than I remembered). And each time Peter ran into MJ, it was like back when Peter was with Gwen- they acted like old buddies, not like two people in love or even infatuation. Then there was Peter's proposal, that was completely out of left-field, and only because he felt lonely and envious of the relationships Harry and Flash were having. MJ turns him down and that appeared to be the final nail in the coffin, with Marv Wolfman filling the grave with soil by making it doubtful they could reconcile.

So 4 years later they bring her back, make it clear she's not interested in Peter romantically and Peter "moves on" (If it could be considered such) to Black Cat. Then after that even worse relationship choice ends- they have Peter again out of left field, propose to MJ. No further development as to why these two should be together. It didn't help their case in my book that this period had some of the absolutely worst writing in Spider-Man's long history. Then of course they toss in the supermodel thing. On the Peter-MJ appreciation thread there are tons of postings of pages between them. And for me, those postings underline just how poorly this marriage has been handled. They speak to each other in platitudes. They don't simply talk. Someone compared MJ's speech to Peter about why it was time they made love after their separation to the work of Stan Lee. And that's totally wrong, and pinpoints the problem. People can look at Stan's work as dated. Maybe it is, as he was writing to a specific time. But the difference is- that Stan wrote people communicating with each other. Relating to each other. that's why the relationships always rang true. Guys like JMS, write people talking AT each other. Doing dramatic monologues meant to present the idea
of who they are and the power of their situation across. It's artificial. I mean MJ's speech was the most unsexy way of saying she wanted to have sex.

The marriage happened during the worst years of Spider-Man, and for me is a symbol of that.

So, no. I wouldn't stop buying Spider-Man if MJ was killed off. However- I would stop buying the comics just because MJ is being killed for the same reasons that the writing has been consistently bad. So her death certainly won't signify any kind of new and glorious era for Spidey. Just the same damn crap.

Hey... we agree.

 

[Dragon]

Hey... we agree.

They said it couldn't be done...

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Man, all they have to do is fix it.

You think Peter can't be a "hard luck hero" when he's married to a super-model turned actress? Well, make her NOT be a super-model turned actress anymore. Give her something else to do for work. The play stuff seemed kind of cool. It was acting, but it wasn't like she was Katie ****ing Holmes.

However...if they killed off MJ, no, I would not stop buying. I've stuck with the wall-crawler through Sins Past/Remembered, The Other, and so far the unmasking. I'll keep sticking with him.

 

[farmernudie]

The thing is....if they kill MJ....

We WILL see MJ clone stories down the road at some point.

We WILL see dream sequence stories where he imagines his life with MJ....(a-la Gwen) at some point.

We MAY see a Sins Past with revalations that MJ slept with (fill in super-villian name here ___________ ) If Joey Q. and JMS, Peter David are writing him.

We will eventually see MJ brought back to life too, a retcon, after that doesn't work also.

Do we really want to go down that road!?!?????
Spider-Widow anyone???

 

[DACrowe]

Dragon do you honestly think the Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern, etc. era was the worst? I would say the Black Cat to marriage was a very good era. And the early marriage issues not much happened in life-event wise but were still pretty entertaining. I think we've seen many worse eras. How about when Marvel went Venom crazy and clone crazy and we got such **** as Venom the anti-hero, Maximum Carnage and the clone saga? How about that era starting with Final Chapter (the supposed end of Volume 1) all the way until Mackie left Amazing. In that time I count ONE good story, maybe two. Otherwise it was about 3 years of pure ****. And surely the era of the Hobgoblin, Peter/MJ reconciliation and the Spidey/BC "partnership" trumps the second era of JMS (there are two the first is his coming home arc, Aunt May finding out, 9/11, the Book of Ezekiel, etc.) starting with Sins Past and continuing through Disassembled, The Other and now the unmasking....

Surely with 3 (or 4 if you want to divide the symbiote craziness and the clone craziness) crappy eras highlighted '80s Spider-Man isn't so bad. Sure is better than what is being printed now.

 

[Dragon]

Dragon do you honestly think the Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern, etc. era was the worst? I would say the Black Cat to marriage was a very good era. And the early marriage issues not much happened in life-event wise but were still pretty entertaining. I think we've seen many worse eras. How about when Marvel went Venom crazy and clone crazy and we got such **** as Venom the anti-hero, Maximum Carnage and the clone saga? How about that era starting with Final Chapter (the supposed end of Volume 1) all the way until Mackie left Amazing. In that time I count ONE good story, maybe two. Otherwise it was about 3 years of pure ****. And surely the era of the Hobgoblin, Peter/MJ reconciliation and the Spidey/BC "partnership" trumps the second era of JMS (there are two the first is his coming home arc, Aunt May finding out, 9/11, the Book of Ezekiel, etc.) starting with Sins Past and continuing through Disassembled, The Other and now the unmasking....

Surely with 3 (or 4 if you want to divide the symbiote craziness and the clone craziness) crappy eras highlighted '80s Spider-Man isn't so bad. Sure is better than what is being printed now.

I liked Roger Stern's run. Wolfman's was okay, although not too classic. DeMatteis was hit or miss for me. Some of his stuff was great. Some not so. The writer I really didn't like was Michelinie. His run crushed Spidey IMO. And yes, the Venomania, Clone-mania and so forth are what I'm talking about. But the marriage is kind of where alot that started. I'll say it this way- I'm not against the marriage as an idea. Anything can work if handled properly. They just didn't do enough to make the marriage work.

 

[Cullen]

I'm going to be dull and agree with everything Dragon just said. My knowledge of that period isn't as in depth, but the marriage proposal came out of left field for me, too.

 

[SELarry]

I've already dropped all 616 Spidey titles and I am seriously considering dropping Ultimate Spidey after issue #100. I am sick of Joe Q. continuously pissing on Spidey's history. Time and time again Joe Q. has said "the great thing about Spidey is that he's your typical everyday guy," but what has Joe Q. allowed to happen? How is having your identity know by the entire world, therefore making you a celebrity, keeping in the "typical everyday guy" tradition? I'm sick of his double-speak, hypocritical B.S. Joe Q. is benefiting more from Marvel's success in Hollywood than from what is passing for the quality of their comics. That is why right now, I'm supporting the Distinguished Competition. I've dropped Spidey only one other time in nearly 20 years, and that was after the "big reveal" of the Clone Saga. They made that right (except for Baby May/resurrection of Aunt May), and hopefully if enough people leave, they'll make this right.

 

[DACrowe]

The only time I dropped (besides just dropping after Sins Past) was when they DID kill MJ in the new Mackie run. That entire run was disgraceful and it got worse. The Trick of Light Goblin story was brilliant but I think Paul Jenkins deserves more credit for that storyline than Howard Mackie. In fact Jenkins' short beginning when Mackie was finishing kept enough interest for me to rejoin just in time for our good ol' pla JMS whose first 3 years were classic Spidey.

And I see what you mean about Michlen though I don't blame the marriage on it, I say for every good issue he did (and there were some....I own them) he would do a few bad ones and it was like 2 or 3 to 1 ratio. For example the engagement story is a little....out of left field to say the least but I like the marriage issue. We had Kraven's Last Hunt, Venom, Venom Returns (the only 2 truly outstanding Venom arcs/stories) and Spidey Evicted and a few others. I think he wrote what may be the best Lizard story ever written (the 30th Anniversary issue) and Lifethreat's Vulture side and MJ nearly getting assasinated and Pete doing nothing was good...the parents being giant robots not so much.

I would say the beginning of the downard spiral though is really when McFarlen got his run. Michlen wrote some good stories and a lot of forgettable ones but during his run Spectacular continued to be a great title under different writers and made some great contributions to the Black Cat and more importantly Harry Osborn stories.

But once we got to Torment everything changed. Torment is single-handedly the worst Lizard story ever written bar maybe Paul Jenkins' complete misrepresentation of the character in the Spectacular volume 2 reboot. Then we get Michlen fixing it in said Lizard story I like but the tone was set. We enter **** like Carnage and Ben Reilly is thrown in the mix and we get stupid **** like Pete quitting, Kaine killing Doc Ock, Carnage killing everyone, everyone getting symbiotes and so forth.

I suppose thsi decline was happening at the end of David's run and all but I think his early stuff (other than a really poor build up to the proposal) was either good or forgettable and the downward spiral came from McFarlen who truly failed to grasp any of the characters he wrote on his own title and set a tone that really choked the character well into the mid or late '90s then.

 

[freemadison]

The only time I dropped (besides just dropping after Sins Past) was when they DID kill MJ in the new Mackie run. That entire run was disgraceful and it got worse.

I dropped when Aunt May was ressurected and considered coming back right before I found out MJ died (and then I didn't come back when I found out MJ died).

I started coming back when JMS' run was actually decent but JQ and JMS are almost looking for new ways to get rid of me.

 

[DACrowe]

I know I mean when JMS was working with JRjr it was gold. Every issue (okay there weere a few duds when Dr. Strange was around) seemed gold. And then bam JMS is gone and then we're in Sins Past. Skin Deep was like a heeling point before the Other gabbled us up.

I quit at Sins Remembered for the record to be more accurate because I wanted to finish Mark Millar's marvelous run on Marvel Knights Spider-Man. And I skipped the Other (bought the death issue and aftermath out of morbid curosity) and am currently buying a few of the unmasking issues here and there, and the results have been indeed dreadful as predicted. He is a celebrity, everyone hates him, he gets MJ in trouble, they're confined to Stark tower, he has to quit work, fights alternate reality Uncle Ben, is no longer a teacher and Mysterio tries to kill his students....

and now Parker is like "It was a bad idea..." oy, I'm dropping again. And yes The Final Chapter is one of the worst stories ever written in Spider-Man cannon and that says a lot because even if the story is poor by Goblin standards it still can be pretty damn good if GG is there, but no it was putrid. And it really did kill Spider-Man for years in the comics. I then cancelled my subscription after MJ "died" and loosley picked up the random issue and when Jenkins was really taking over after the good Trick of Light arc I wearily came back just in time for JMS.

But now....we're in a new ****hole. And if MJ is "killed off" so lazy Marvel writers can have a single "swinging again" Spidey bachelor because it "deages him" and easier to write....than I say 616 died in the Other, which is the point of my thread. Imgaine if The Other ends with Pete dead as went, no cocoon and MJ pregnant again. Okay the head eating would still be stupid as **** but if you take out the rebirth and the spider-god what you have is a very nice the end....okay adequete is more the word.

Point is I think with the unmasking Spider-Man is lost and the only reason I hestitantly read right now is the same reason I look at a car wreck. Sad, really.

 

[shinlyle]

Recently Quesada has said that he can niether confirm nor deny that MJ would be killed off.

This has been building up for awhile. Quesada has never liked the marriage. According to him, there aren't many people at Marvel that do like the marriage. They all want to write about single Spidey.

I'm all for giving new plots a chance. But if they killed off MJ, I'd cancel all Spider-Man titles except for Spider-Girl.

Killing MJ off would be dumb on SO many levels. One of the biggest reasons is the amount of depression that would come across the Spidey books. How depressing would it be if MJ died! This guy's girlfriends keep dying on him! Why isn't he allowed this piece of happiness?? Killing off MJ, it's just too dark. It's too much. It would depress the hell out of me. And not depress me as in "oh wow, how touching, I wanna cry". But depressing as in "great, all the fun just went out of Spider-Man, how's he ever gonna be happy after this??"

You know that if he did it, it wouldn't be very long till he's a swinging single again. It would just be rediculous. I wouldn't buy it. I wouldn't buy that angle at all. We've been down this road! We've read about Spider-Man being single. We'll ALWAYS have those stories, and they can write new ones in Ultimate Spider-Man. Why regress the character to tell stories we've already read about? Quesada is wrong to say that you should keep these characters in stasis.

They're 40+ years old! They need to age and grow otherwise they become stale and boring. You take away MJ, for Peter it will be like "jeez... there's years of happiness gone... a massive thing in my life just gone...".

It would be a waste to kill off MJ. The marriage works when written well. JMS has proved this. They just need to be written about more as a couple.

You left out the option of "I've already cancelled all the books because of the unmasking crap". That needs to be up there.

I'm only reading Sensational Spider-Man right now. And yes, I would cancel it if they killed off MJ, or worse, made Peter a bitter divorcee. So, yeah, MJ goes, I go.

 

[Kevin]

I'm a MJ fan, and i already said that i dont care what they do to her, just dont kill her. spider-man died to me already. not because of the stories, but because of the writers. why should i read a book with a writer who cant write elements in that book? really? why hire someone who cant write EVERYTHING? doesn't matter. i avoid all books with spidey in them anyway. i catch up on what's happening with him when i can. what pisses me off though is that if MJ died, fans will buy twice as many as that issue just to see how they do it. then they'll buy more issues just to see how they handle the after affects. and you know what marvel will think? "fans LOVE it! look at our sales. it's all in the numbers."

 

[The Infernal]

I've said this before but I'll say it again. It's pathetic that Joe Q argues that most of the writers at Marvel have the inability to write a married relationship. If that's really true then they should quit and be replaced with writers who have an imagination. I mean it's a simple and common subject to write about. How could they cock that up?

 

[farmernudie]

Exactly.

There are writers who write about marriage in tv shows all the time. Tv shows of all sorts...comedies..drama...action...etc.

Superhero's in this situation can only add a whole new fun angle to that.

So, are comic book writers specifically unable to write about marriage and are they throwing in the towel? Are they really that inept and can't write about the simplest and most basic form of relationship (marriage) in the world?

Or does Joey Q. speak for them and just say they can't?

Or does he just want to obliterate what's left of any supporting cast Spidey currently has??

 

[MajinShenron]

No, I might take a break from it because when MJ gets hurt Spiderman turns emo, but I really dont care about MJ at all.

 

[Ultimate Jay]

Only read Ultimate titles anyway, but if for some reason they killed M.J. in USM, it would really depend on the circumstances...

 

[crivelliman]

At this point, I'm cancelling all my Spider-Man books anyway so it doesn't much matter. While I wrote to Quesada outlining my disapproval of the motion to end the MJ/Pete relationship, at this point since I'm "getting out" anyway, it might add some closure to my overall Spider-Man story. It would also act as a direct contrast to my other ending for the Spider-Man mythos, which was that Rebirth first issue from Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man (forgot the number) when the clone was dead, MJ "miscarried" and the two of them were moving back into the city. It was a perfect end for me at the time, because when I ever wondered what happened to Spider-Man at any point after that, I would pick up that issue and say "Oh right. He lived happily ever after."

After JMS pulled me back in with the Cap / Dr. Doom story which also brought Pete and MJ back together, I've been along for the ride all the way from Digger to the totems to Gwen to this point in the Civil War. And I have to say, I'm thoroughly disappointed. But the Civil War (the Millar/ McNieven combo book only) is really freakin' good. I'm really just flat-out enjoying the story, the art, the dialogue. And while it was utterly breathtaking to see Pete take off his mask with that excellent art, it really kind of closed the deal for me. Amazing hasn't been slipping. It's been keeping up with the trends the other books have been taking (which is, of course, the trend called "bad"). And now that Amazing has just become consistently lousy (with some thoroughly mediocre art), I'd say it's about time to jump off again. Right after this whole Civil War thing is over, I'm letting Marvel and everyone associated with it go (except maybe Moon Knight, until Finch goes).

So with that all in perspective, killing MJ would just be fantastic closure to me and my own miopic view of the MU. When I look back and wonder how the Marvel Universe went, I'll simply be able to say "Oh, it ripped itself open and killed Spider-Man in the process" and that will be that. And since everyone has been involved with the "earth-shattering ending" to the whole ordeal, from JMS to Quesada to even Joss Whedon, I'm guessing it'll at the very least be well-written, brilliantly drawn, and emotionally draining. And that will kind of sum up what this experience has been. When it was originally just JMS and Spidey in the little world he occupied, I had hope for the future. And now that it's all kind of tumbling down, I think the end of this War is the perfect time to say "No ma`s. I've had enough." And I wouldn't blame anyone else for doing the same.

 

[spideylover89]

To me the killing MJ bit would just be the final straw. I can't stand what they've done to spidey and while I'm sticking around for Civil War, I will only be picking up Sensational and USM after it ends. The writing and characterization are crap and I just don't want to deal with Joe Q and JMS anymore. However if they give MJ the boot I'm dropping Sensational as well.

 

[DACrowe]

I just don't get. Things were so well only a year and a half ago. JMS and JRjr had the best Spidey title around, Jenkins would be hot about 2/3 of the time and when he wasn't no biggie and Mark Millar was having a fantastic run on the 12 issue of Marvel Knights Spider-Man then it all changed. Millar left Marvel Knights, JRjr left, Jenkins got fired (after giving us the best GG, Doc Ock and Venom stories of the last decade if not longer) and JMS got egotistical with the fame he got from his Coming Home/Book of Ezekiel huge arc and decided to build on it.

Pete lost one of the most interesting facets of that JMS brought in (him being a teacher) and is unmasked after being rebirthed from his own body so he can now of Spider-stingers. Pfft, plese. In my mind he died after Morlun beat him got up saved MJ (but didn't suck Morlun's head) and that was a nice ending to Spidey's life. The Civil War has thoroughly managed to butcher what made Iron Man so good a character by making him a George W. Bush stand-in now.

I've cancelled subscriptions and just look at Marvel as a force that is destroying itself and will take YEARS of rebuilding to fix this problem now.