X-Men - Part 1

[JewishHobbit]

Honestly, we have 4 ongoing X-Men books. Have 2 or 3 set teams (that aren't repeats of Wolverine, Cyclops, Emma, etc.) and then have a book or two that rotates cast as per the mission or whatever. It's not that hard to figure out but somehow Marvel's too worried about money to care about sense. Every title needs Cyclops, Wolverine, and Emma in it or it won't sell, so obviously they need 4 ongoing titles besides the rest that Wolverine has. Maybe that's why I've been liking Legacy so much lately. The focus is on character seldomly used (save Magneto) and Cyclops and co. are only used sparingly as the plot demands (such as Cyclops's reactions and dealings with his missing daughter).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They didn't say different how.

They're going to look at Wolverine with even more bro-love in their eyes.

The saddest part is that I could actually see that happening.

 

[JewishHobbit]

You know what I'd like to see in the 4 X-Men books?

First off, several of the X-Men are already focuses of their book in New Mutants. Adding to that...

1) A San Fran team book

2) A New York team book

3) A rotating team book

4) A former villains book.

That last one I just thought about. We have tons of former enemies on Utopia now like Toad, Frenzy, and Random... I'd like to see an X-Man try to "redeem" them kinda like in Thunderbolts. Unlike prison, or a ruse, they came to Utopia of their own will. It could be interesting. Maybe Xavier himself.

 

[El Bastardo]

The saddest part is that I could actually see that happening.

I'm going to make it happen, just to spite you.

You know what I'd like to see in the 4 X-Men books?

First off, several of the X-Men are already focuses of their book in New Mutants. Adding to that...

1) A San Fran team book

2) A New York team book

3) A rotating team book

4) A former villains book.

That last one I just thought about. We have tons of former enemies on Utopia now like Toad, Frenzy, and Random... I'd like to see an X-Man try to "redeem" them kinda like in Thunderbolts. Unlike prison, or a ruse, they came to Utopia of their own will. It could be interesting. Maybe Xavier himself.

Do the X-Men need to be in New York, though? I mean, it's a sound idea if this team would potentially have dealings with the rest of the superhero community, but considering this has always been a minimal point in the history of the X-Men franchise, why bother with a New York team at all?

As for a rotating team book, for the most part, both Uncanny and Legacy have accomplished that for awhile, though I'm sure someone'll pop up to complain about Fraction and this-that-or-something and how Carey just loves Rogue and only focuses on her and no other characters. Or maybe I'm being too cynical.

The former villains team could work, but there are two problems with it: one, are there enough reformed X-Men villains to really do it? And two, can it be done without looking like you're ripping off Thunderbolts or X-Factor circa Mystique and Sabretooth being on the team? Considering those aspects, it might make more sense to just add any reformed villains to regular teams, on a per-interest basis with the writer.

Besides, how much crap did Carey get for putting Sabretooth on the team when he first started writing? Or Milligan getting crap for bringing Mystique into the fold? Or Carey getting crap for using Mystique? Well, fine, they weren't "reformed" in the true sense of the word, fair enough.

 

[squeekness]

So all the books are going to be reorganized at the same time? That would make it easier for me. I would only get the books that have Wolverine and Gambit in them. Best of all would be if they were in the same one. I could just go down to one book and be happy.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Do the X-Men need to be in New York, though? I mean, it's a sound idea if this team would potentially have dealings with the rest of the superhero community, but considering this has always been a minimal point in the history of the X-Men franchise, why bother with a New York team at all?

Minimal? I didn't know that the Xavier Mansion was a minimal part of the X-Men's history.

 

[Havok83]

Do the X-men need to be anywhere in particular? They dont have to be, but Id love to see them go back to NY. I miss the classic setting and putting some of them back there would be the best compromise for those who are fans of the Westchester mansion and those who now prefer Utopia. Kinda like they did for Avengers when they split it into New and Mighty.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Minimal? I didn't know that the Xavier Mansion was a minimal part of the X-Men's history.

I think he meant relations with the superhero community at large. It's obviously impossible to dispute that operating out of New York is certainly a huge part of the X-Men's history. But as far as interacting with other superhero teams is concerned, I'd agree with EB. Outside of a few X-Men acting as occasional members of the Avengers--during which time, it should be noted, they generally leave the X-Men entirely and have little overlap between their activities with the "real" superheroes and their activities with their mutant compatriots--and a couple gimmicky crossovers, the mutants and the superhero community in general usually stay at arm's length to one another.

 

[Havok83]

I think he meant relations with the superhero community at large. It's obviously impossible to dispute that operating out of New York is certainly a huge part of the X-Men's history. But as far as interacting with other superhero teams is concerned, I'd agree with EB. Outside of a few X-Men acting as occasional members of the Avengers--during which time, it should be noted, they generally leave the X-Men entirely and have little overlap between their activities with the "real" superheroes and their activities with their mutant compatriots--and a couple gimmicky crossovers, the mutants and the superhero community in general usually stay at arm's length to one another.

but why would them moving to NY be done primarily for interacting with the other teams? Its not why they returned there before and I dont expect it to be why they would return there now.

 

[Manic]

Well, give a good reason for them to return now. Considering how well the X-Men have been treated since moving to California, I can't for the life of me think of a reason for them to move back to New York other than connecting with the rest of the superhero community.

 

[El Bastardo]

Minimal? I didn't know that the Xavier Mansion was a minimal part of the X-Men's history.

My post was about interaction with other superheroes. Corp explained it below.

I think he meant relations with the superhero community at large. It's obviously impossible to dispute that operating out of New York is certainly a huge part of the X-Men's history. But as far as interacting with other superhero teams is concerned, I'd agree with EB. Outside of a few X-Men acting as occasional members of the Avengers--during which time, it should be noted, they generally leave the X-Men entirely and have little overlap between their activities with the "real" superheroes and their activities with their mutant compatriots--and a couple gimmicky crossovers, the mutants and the superhero community in general usually stay at arm's length to one another.

This.

but why would them moving to NY be done primarily for interacting with the other teams? Its not why they returned there before and I dont expect it to be why they would return there now.

The Mansion is gone. The editorial/writing team decided to blow it up (again) and make a move away from it. Given that current direction, were the reason for a New York-based team simply being "Oh hey, well, we could go rebuild the Mansion again and then hang out there" is not a very good reason at all.

So unless the hypothetical NY-based team would deal with the larger superhero community - like what Whedon did for that issue of Dangerous in Astonishing, and what he supposedly intended Astonishing to be in design (also as "public relations") - there's no point in making a conscious shift back to New York at all.

That's where I was going with it, and what Corp was explaining.

 

[Havok83]

The Mansion is gone. The editorial/writing team decided to blow it up (again) and make a move away from it. Given that current direction, were the reason for a New York-based team simply being "Oh hey, well, we could go rebuild the Mansion again and then hang out there" is not a very good reason at all.

So unless the hypothetical NY-based team would deal with the larger superhero community - like what Whedon did for that issue of Dangerous in Astonishing, and what he supposedly intended Astonishing to be in design (also as "public relations") - there's no point in making a conscious shift back to New York at all.

that can easily be fixxed bc the X-mansion has been destroyed several times over the decades

As for the current direction; well things are changing. That seems to be the whole point of Schism. The X-men had to adapt to the change in the X-world post M-day and more specifically Messiah Complex. That sense of survival and extinction is not as prevalent anymore and things have been looking up since Second Coming. Considering theres about to be a big blow, up with people choosing sides, over the conflict in regards to which direction the team should go in, I dont expect them to be all cool and living together in SF. NY makes more sense for another base of operations than to have 2 opposing teams on Utopia/SF area, especially if there is a back to basics mentality with the post-Schism X-men.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The schism itself might be enough to create a New York X-Men team again, come to think of it. Let's say the X-Men come to blows. Wolverine's team would easily kick Cyclops' team's ass 'cause, y'know, that's what he does. Cyclops could just return to Westchester and rebuild the mansion purely to have familiar surroundings in which to lick his wounds.

Granted, it'd be better if they also had some interaction with the other superhero teams, purely because the X-Men are supposed to be superheroes, however much fans of the 'serious' civil rights issues they explore might want to gnash their teeth over it.

 

[Manic]

Which side would move back to New York? Scott has established a safe community and welcome atmosphere in San Francisco, so he wouldn't move back. Wolverine could take his team back to New York, but something tells me Charles wouldn't let them set up shop in his old house.

 

[El Bastardo]

Fair enough - "distance" could make for a good enough reason, assuming this whole Schism thing sticks for a long enough duration and isn't resolved.

The point remains that the X-Men, as one cohesive unit, made the conscious decision to leave the Mansion and not rebuild it. So why New York? Why not Florida? Why not Massachusetts, since that's where Generation X was? Why not Maine? Why not Canada? Why not South America? Why not Europe? Why not Japan? Why not Australia?

 

[Manic]

Let's not forget that Rogue has houses in LA and New Orleans that someone could move in.

 

[El Bastardo]

And Warren has random homes that current X-Force has used.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Which side would move back to New York? Scott has established a safe community and welcome atmosphere in San Francisco, so he wouldn't move back. Wolverine could take his team back to New York, but something tells me Charles wouldn't let them set up shop in his old house.

He created that safe community by adopting a mindset far more in line with Wolverine's constant mindset, though. If he's going back to his morally righteous, idealistic take on Xavier's dream, would Utopia even want him? I imagine they'd want Wolverine's continuation of the militaristic take and all the security--however illusory--that provides them. I could see Cyclops trying to take things back to the way they used to be, someone dying, and Utopia instantly turning on him for his 'weakness.'

 

[Havok83]

Fair enough - "distance" could make for a good enough reason, assuming this whole Schism thing sticks for a long enough duration and isn't resolved.

The point remains that the X-Men, as one cohesive unit, made the conscious decision to leave the Mansion and not rebuild it. So why New York? Why not Florida? Why not Massachusetts, since that's where Generation X was? Why not Maine? Why not Canada? Why not South America? Why not Europe? Why not Japan? Why not Australia?

Bc of familiarity? It was their home for years. They have an inpenetrable undeground subbasement system which always remains in tact regardless of mansion destruction. Its isolated enough that they dont have to worry about being a problem from nearby society. It wasnt just a house. It was a strategic and advanced facility which was functional as a base of operations. Something like random houses of Rogue's wont suffice.

He created that safe community by adopting a mindset far more in line with Wolverine's constant mindset, though. If he's going back to his morally righteous, idealistic take on Xavier's dream, would Utopia even want him? I imagine they'd want Wolverine's continuation of the militaristic take and all the security--however illusory--that provides them. I could see Cyclops trying to take things back to the way they used to be, someone dying, and Utopia instantly turning on him for his 'weakness.'

This. Cyclops pretty much isolated and segregated himself and the X-men bc of his old mindset, one which he felt was necesary at the time. He didnt completely forget about Xavier's dream; but he did put it on the backburner. With new mutants popping up now all over the world, its not practical that everyone should be situated on that one island. They need to work on getting these mutants to live out in normal society and live peacefully with regular humans, not automatically get into the mindset that they must be segregated on a seperate island to themselves building an army. Reopening the school makes sense to teach the new mutants who are untrained with their (potentially dangerous) powers

 

[roach]

why would they go back to Westchester
1) Iconic base
2) its ready made...it wont take them long to off panel rebuild the mansion
3)a mansion-school is a little less threatening than a mutant island base
4) Scott is mentioned as returning back to basics...nothing more basic than returning home...to the mansion

 

[El Bastardo]

Nothing about the way Cyclops has been written to this point strikes me as making an entire 180 and saying, "Whoops! My bad, guys. We totally should have never left the Mansion. Let's go build it again. It'll be awesome."

The move should not be done if it makes poor sense from a character standpoint.

 

[Specter313]

I would like to point out that one of the last times we saw the grounds where the mansion once stood, something else was already being built in its place when Emplate returned at the site. So there's a good chance they can't even build a new school there because there's something else already in its place.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Nothing about the way Cyclops has been written to this point strikes me as making an entire 180 and saying, "Whoops! My bad, guys. We totally should have never left the Mansion. Let's go build it again. It'll be awesome."

The move should not be done if it makes poor sense from a character standpoint.

Maybe Wolverine hits him on the head and he starts being characterized properly again.

 

[El Bastardo]

Maybe Wolverine hits him on the head and he starts being characterized properly again.

See, that's just being snarky.

 

[venom892]

So where do guys think everyone will fall after Schism?

W/Wolverine-Angel, Psylocke, Fantomex, Magneto
W/Cyclops-Emma, Kitty, Colossus, Xavier

Everyone else I'm not so sure.