X-Men - Part 4

[chamber-music]

Last time I saw Darwin he was getting the Bishop treatment trying to hunt down and kill Rahne's son because he thinks he will bring about the apocalypse.


What is it with the X-office in Marvel either killing, depowering or turning evil black male mutant characters. Sunspot is lucky no one who writes him remembers his half black

(There was the reignfire thing but the less said on that the better)

 

[moraldeficiency]

It works for bishop given his past but a lot of the "ethnic" characters have that kind of motif. Forge, Thunderbird have or had a bit of that, also Sabra.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Darwin latino?

 

[Manic]

Blatino.

 

[Specter313]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Darwin latino?

Blatino.

Yep. Black mom, hispanic father.

 

[Anubis]

Doesn't he got a bit of Hela in him?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He touched Hela's death hand and his power adapted to it. So now he's somehow in tune with death. It was left pretty vague, as I recall.

 

[Anubis]

Meaning it could be forgotten, or somebody could use it as a catalyst for the next big event. Darwinian Nightmare! This time, the unkillable black dude who somehow got killed in the movie is back....and he's pissed!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, Peter David's still writing X-Factor, and that's the only thing touching Darwin for the foreseeable future. I'm pretty sure he still remembers.

 

[Anubis]

I don't know, didn't he forget about that whole Jamie not being a mutant thing?

 

[JewishHobbit]

Wow, I forgot all about that. Then again, I'm not Peter David.

 

[Slick]

Hi I'm thinking about buying Grant Morrison's New X-men omnibus on amazon and is his run on x-men amazing or should I just get Secret Warriors omnibus by Hickman. I know I could read the reviews on amazon but I trust people on here more lol.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know, didn't he forget about that whole Jamie not being a mutant thing?

Did Peter David introduce that? 'Cause the man can only keep track of so much.

 

[chamber-music]

Meaning it could be forgotten, or somebody could use it as a catalyst for the next big event. Darwinian Nightmare! This time, the unkillable black dude who somehow got killed in the movie is back....and he's pissed!

They will call it fear of a black planet

 

[JewishHobbit]

Hi I'm thing about buying Grant Morrison's New X-men omnibus on amazon and is his run on x-men amazing or should I just get Secret Warriors omnibus by Hickman. I know I could read the reviews on amazon but I trust people on here more lol.

Both are good reads but I think New X-Men is the better one. Just my opinion.

 

[OutcryX]

It works for bishop given his past but a lot of the "ethnic" characters have that kind of motif. Forge, Thunderbird have or had a bit of that, also Sabra.

No..it DOESN'T work for Bishop because it was such a random, left of field revelation, out-of-character development. It was done to be 'shocking' ...and pissed me off.

You are right though...Bishop, Darwin, Forge (not sure about Thunderbird and Sabra..was did they do?)...all have gone rogue and out of character with nobody correcting course. The only X-Man gone evil white character (that stayed that way) I can think of is Vulcan/Gabriel Summers..and I am so sure he will be redeemed at some point....once he comes back from the dead, again.

...My footer is oh so relevant...

 

[Slick]

Both are good reads but I think New X-Men is the better one. Just my opinion.

Cool thanks

 

[moraldeficiency]

No..it DOESN'T work for Bishop because it was such a random, left of field revelation, out-of-character development. It was done to be 'shocking' ...and pissed me off.

You are right though...Bishop, Darwin, Forge (not sure about Thunderbird and Sabra..was did they do?)...all have gone rogue and out of character with nobody correcting course. The only X-Man gone evil white character (that stayed that way) I can think of is Vulcan/Gabriel Summers..and I am so sure he will be redeemed at some point....once he comes back from the dead, again.

...My footer is oh so relevant...

Sure it does, bishop was more man out of time from apocalyptic future guy than black guy. When the planet has been decimated, most everyone dead, racism stops mattering, living and surviving does. He's the guy that will do anything to save the future from what he endured, that's always been his thing. He just happens to also be black. I have little problem with that, actually in a way it's refreshing that rather than being one of the first people killed like in most movies it was a black mutant (with a pretty weak superpower) that made it through.

T-Bird was a professor X hunter. Sabra hunted people for the mossad most famously magneto for war crimes (not that that isn't long overdue). I wasn't thinking so much out of character as they all have similar motifs, they are their job, they hunt and kill something for some reason.

Scott Summers, Majik have gone there now, I'll just throw that out there.

 

[OutcryX]

Sure it does, bishop was more man out of time from apocalyptic future guy than black guy. When the planet has been decimated, most everyone dead, racism stops mattering, living and surviving does. He's the guy that will do anything to save the future from what he endured, that's always been his thing. He just happens to also be black. I have little problem with that, actually in a way it's refreshing that rather than being one of the first people killed like in most movies it was a black mutant (with a pretty weak superpower) that made it through.

T-Bird was a professor X hunter. Sabra hunted people for the mossad most famously magneto for war crimes (not that that isn't long overdue). I wasn't thinking so much out of character as they all have similar motifs, they are their job, they hunt and kill something for some reason.

Scott Summers, Majik have gone there now, I'll just throw that out there.

Bishop wasn't Black..he was Aboriginal and his power set was pretty dope. not weak at all.

and no. that was out of character for him. his whole 'motif' had been to hunt and kill the traitor to the x-men...when that storyline wrapped..he seemed at ill ease with his mission purpose..FOR YEARS..he tried many different roles..cop, siding with Stark during civil war..all kinds of crap...never did he say..'hey, waitaminute..there's gonna be some mutant baby girl born that will destroy the world'...if anything THAT should have been his purpose for coming back in the first place. it was shoe horned in and made him 180 into ultimate *****e instantly.

T-Bird and Sabra both joined up with the X-men AFTER their stints of solo work..they don't count

and no, sorry, neither Cyclops or Majik are seen as villains...

 

[moraldeficiency]

Bishop wasn't Black..he was Aboriginal and his power set was pretty dope. not weak at all.

and no. that was out of character for him. his whole 'motif' had been to hunt and kill the traitor to the x-men...when that storyline wrapped..he seemed at ill ease with his mission purpose..FOR YEARS..he tried many different roles..cop, siding with Stark during civil war..all kinds of crap...never did he say..'hey, waitaminute..there's gonna be some mutant baby girl born that will destroy the world'...if anything THAT should have been his purpose for coming back in the first place. it was shoe horned in and made him 180 into ultimate *****e instantly.

T-Bird and Sabra both joined up with the X-men AFTER their stints of solo work..they don't count

and no, sorry, neither Cyclops or Majik are seen as villains...

That is true, I forgot he's australian.

His powerset is pretty lame, you need to hit him with energy for him to give it back. Compare that with other powersets and he's not a powerhouse by any means. Personally I like him better for it.

He's always tried to prevent bad things from happening. That's his thing cause he lived through it. Victims of abuse may target abusers, people growing up in post apocalyptic worlds probably want to avoid something like that from happening in any form.

The don't count? Racist.

We're not talking about the same thing here, you're all racism racism racism, I'm saying minority characters often have similar motifs as characters. They often hunt down something for some wrong perceived. Now while you might say, "well isn't that like all superheros?" it doesn't apply to mutants because they were always going to be mutants. Some mutants are just people trying to live their lives and don't have a character driven by the "hunt and kill and avenge mentality". I think the reason for this is most white writers are scared to try and just write a normal minority character that doesn't have an easy and comfortable hook built in.

I sure as hell see them as villains, they've killed lots of people, opened up hell on earth, have a genocidal thing going on as they build an army. They run around with magneto. Yeah, they're villains. For the record I see bishop as infinitely less *****y than current cyclops or majik.

Though I think this may be pointless, we're talking about different things and I feel like you're just going to be upset to be upset.

 

[Manic]

For the record I see bishop as infinitely less *****y than current cyclops or majik.

...really? He tried to kill a baby fresh out the womb, and he unleashed sentinels on a school full of children as a diversion while he hunted down said infant. Do you remember what he did while chasing Cable and Hope through time? He killed billions of people across the planet to leave Cable with no place to hide. I can't remember which continent was nuked to hell and which continent was ravaged by disease, but the "where" doesn't quite as much as the "what" in this case.

 

[moraldeficiency]

...really? He tried to kill a baby fresh out the womb, and he unleashed sentinels on a school full of children as a diversion while he hunted down said infant. Do you remember what he did while chasing Cable and Hope through time? He killed billions of people across the planet to leave Cable with no place to hide. I can't remember which continent was nuked to hell and which continent was ravaged by disease, but the "where" doesn't quite as much as the "what" in this case.

To be fair I didn't read much of cable, I find him pretty boring, but I might check out X-Force as I like the rest of the cast. The people he killed was that like alternate future people or real people and now he's killed billions of people on earth cause I don't remember that affecting the main MU.

I look at it like this: cyclops (current cyclops at least) wants to just save his race, he's cool with killing anyone not of his race to save his people. Bishop wants to save the planet by killing someone that would/could kill everyone. In terms of motivations it's not cool to kill a hundred asians to save three hispanics but kill one hispanic to save all the planet including all other hispanics? Yes I'm more cool with that. Actually that analogy is flawed change save three hispanics to convert three asians back to being hispanics.

 

[Havok83]

To be fair I didn't read much of cable, I find him pretty boring, but I might check out X-Force as I like the rest of the cast. The people he killed was that like alternate future people or real people and now he's killed billions of people on earth cause I don't remember that affecting the main MU.

I look at it like this: cyclops (current cyclops at least) wants to just save his race, he's cool with killing anyone not of his race to save his people. Bishop wants to save the planet by killing someone that would/could kill everyone. In terms of motivations it's not cool to kill a hundred asians to save three hispanics but kill one hispanic to save all the planet including all other hispanics? Yes I'm more cool with that. Actually that analogy is flawed change save three hispanics to convert three asians back to being hispanics.

Just bc the people he killed were in the future doesnt make what he did any less awful. He still sacrificed lives in order to try and kill a baby. Its ironic bc his reasoning for hunting Hope was to prevent the deaths of the millions that she allegedly would one day cause, yet he ended up causing the deaths of billions, while failing to achieve that goal.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Just bc the people he killed were in the future doesnt make what he did any less awful. He still sacrificed lives in order to try and kill a baby. Its ironic bc his reasoning for hunting Hope was to prevent the deaths of the millions that she allegedly would one day cause, yet he ended up causing the deaths of billions, while failing to achieve that goal.

i would have loved to see bishop inadvertently actually be the cause of his own timeline in the future... by his own actions and paranoia to prevent it. It'd actually be kinda brilliant

 

[moraldeficiency]

Just bc the people he killed were in the future doesnt make what he did any less awful. He still sacrificed lives in order to try and kill a baby. Its ironic bc his reasoning for hunting Hope was to prevent the deaths of the millions that she allegedly would one day cause, yet he ended up causing the deaths of billions, while failing to achieve that goal.

Yeah it does, or at least in my eyes. I will happily kill everyone in the future to prevent something awful from happening now because any change in the timeline negates future acts. So by time hopping in any form and doing anything that changes the future you are in actuality killing everyone that would have been part of that time line and replacing them with others. Basically if he changes the future, or is anyone does, they kill anyone that was in the current timeline's future. So anyone that has seen the future and done something differently because of it is in fact guilty of killing everyone on the planet and also responsible for birthing new people on that same planet.

Millions in the present which is different from millions in the future. The basic laws of time and evolution show that past lives are more important than future lives. One person in the past can birth hundreds in the future (or given enough time billions or trillions).

I agree it's still pretty bad, but that said I don't find it nearly as bad as what scott did and is cool with because in bishop's eyes he literally already killed his whole planet by coming back in time and he hopes replaced it with a planet that would be better.

I see it in this way. Take a jewish person in the holocaust. They have the option of going back in time and killing baby hitler. By doing this they literally change time so they and everyone else they knew ceases to exist but hopes that the new future of them will not involve the holocaust. It's bad to kill a baby but the holocaust is just worse. I'm not saying it's cool but I do get the reasoning.

Bishop's actions would have changed hope's future so who's to say if his actions didn't make her different and into a hero vs how she could have ended up? I'm not saying I think that but with timelines it's worth a pondering.