X-Men - Part 6

[BoredGuy]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks teen Jean is a ass****.

Yeah seeing this version of her, I feel like I'm watching the origin of a sociopathic supervillain/mass murderer
Teen Jean is way scarier than Red Skull with Xavier's brain imo

 

[Czar Colossus]

I sorta liked the issue, except [BLACKOUT]for the whole Bobby thing[/BLACKOUT]. I liked [BLACKOUT]Hank being confronted for his actions and the rally in DC[/BLACKOUT]. It's just when you read that and the read Extraordinary X-Men it's like wait what?? And I know we're still missing the end of Secret War, but really how much of that story are we expecting is going to focus on setting up the X-Men's new status quo? There was only one mutant shown in the main story and supposedly he's dead.

Yeah I totally agree. Iceman has always been my favorite of the original 5 and I do not like the direction for him at all **** Bendis. I'm still an Iceman though just the same. Colossus, Nightcrawler and Iceman are still my favorites and I'm glad that they're on a team together (along with the rest) in Extraordinary, so I have very high hopes for this title.

 

[javi1024]

And what's funny is I'm reading Bendis' run again and it's clear that it was not his intention at the beginning of his run and obviously editorially influenced. In Battle of the Atom old, bearded Bobby even tells young Bobby to start growing his beard now because "chicks will love it".

 

[Sithborg]

Well, one thing of Bendis's last issue was already negated. [BLACKOUT]No Jean and Beast hookup, thankfully.[/BLACKOUT] We will see about Iceman.

Extraordinary X-men is shaping up to be good, though. Loving Colossus and Magik interactions. I like the new Cerebra, and her form. And I do like the idea of mutant/inhuman conflicts, with either of them getting mistaken for the other. Just not among the backdrop of another extinction or plague (though that may just be part of the sheer laziness of the name). And it does appear that some of the early rumors of post-Secret Wars was somewhat true. The mutants didn't exactly move whole sale to a new planet. But, they are primarily based in another dimension at the moment, but still very connected to earth. But as the mention in the issue, Limbo may not have been the best idea...

And finally, RIP [BLACKOUT]Cyclops.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Czar Colossus]

And what's funny is I'm reading Bendis' run again and it's clear that it was not his intention at the beginning of his run and obviously editorially influenced. In Battle of the Atom old, bearded Bobby even tells young Bobby to start growing his beard now because "chicks will love it".

Right.
Bobby has always been pretty strongly established as a straight character for over 50 years, (as a matter of fact he's always been goofy, care free, and girl crazy like JLU Wally West) so this is just some more idiotic editorial pandering. If Marvel needed to provide another gay character to satisfy a target demographic, I think Miles Morales would have been a better choice. Bobby was already too clearly defined.

 

[Havok83]

that and it makes no sense considering how much time he's spent around telepaths. The way it came out with the younger Drake made sense bc how can one really hide a secret like that from someone that can read thoughts? Older Bobby has spent so much time with Jean, Xavier and Emma and has had all three of them in his head. Heck, Emma literally was inside his head and there was a flirtation between them. She'd know. This was a dumb twist that doesnt jive with established history

 

[CaptainWagner]

I've got to agree with all of you on this. There's nothing wrong with wanting a character to come out as gay, but it shouldn't be one that's been obviously straight for the 50-some years of his existence. Just plain stupid on Bendis' part.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

As a gay man... I really hate the way it was handled as well... I mean, at least they "sort of" explained it by making bobby be in denial and closeted all these years (and there has been evidence to support that), and it would have been absolutely terrible if young bobby was gay, but old bobby was straight... so at least they explained it...

but it just doesn't fit the medium, not when he's been surrounded by psychics his whole life and not when it's a medium that lets us read thought bubbles and we've seen what he's thought of women before.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

And what's funny is I'm reading Bendis' run again and it's clear that it was not his intention at the beginning of his run and obviously editorially influenced. In Battle of the Atom old, bearded Bobby even tells young Bobby to start growing his beard now because "chicks will love it".

to be fair (and again as i really don't like the way this was handled) You can't really pay attention to what Bobby verbally says.. only what he personally thinks (thought bubbles) closeted people do tend to say stuff like this actually quite often to make them appear straight. And that's the angle they went for... so that aspect really isn't "off"

 

[mightiest_mortal]

Jesus. I Just read 600, what complete mess. As for the Iceman story, it really bugs me that it's Bendis last issue, so he through that in there with no intent to write any stories surrounding it or any plan. He just wanted to turn Iceman gay and then run away.

I say "turn gay" nor "outed" because he's been written consistantly as a straight character for decades, with every thought he's had in speech bubbles or as an internal narration. He's even had multiple telepaths in his head who've never said anything, Emmas taken over his mind completely and then they were both flirtier afte, hell this means that Professor X has known this ENTIRE time but didn't think to even say anything, or to help him, or any words of advice? Prof X was just like "LOL".

I know that they want more LGB characters but this change is frankly embarrassing. Their argument being "he's always had trouble with relationships with girls" and "A gay guy fancied him once" is utterly preposterous.

to be fair (and again as i really don't like the way this was handled) You can't really pay attention to what Bobby verbally says.. only what he personally thinks (thought bubbles) closeted people do tend to say stuff like this actually quite often to make them appear straight. And that's the angle they went for... so that aspect really isn't "off"

Well, it was advice to his younger self. Knowing everything he must have been going through as a closeted gay man, you think he'd have found some better advice for his younger self then "you know what chicks love?"

+Speaking of thought bubbles, he's had decades of thought bubbles professing his attraction to women with no indication at all that he was gay.


Not going to lie, even outside of this (what was a throwaway scene in the issue) it was a jumbled mess of an issue. Bendis has realy dropped the ball on his run and changed a lot of things, not for the better. I'm at the point where I don't even know why I'm reading X-Men anymore.

 

[KevanG]

I was listening to the Rachel and Miles explain the X-men podcast and I loved how they summed up Young Scotts life up to the point he goes to space and why it makes sense.

How is he up there anyway?

 

[def28]

Just read the first issue of All New Wolverine which I thought was decent. Glad Laura has her own book again.

Also glad to see Uncanny Avengers appear to be adding Cable and Gambit. Along with Rogue, Deadpool and Quicksilver it has a solid mix of rebelious X characters. First issue was meh but the second issue improved and led to some interesting possibilities.

The main X title still seems to be lacking and relying on retreading the same ground. Feel like the characters are just running in circles. Big fan of Lemire so hope to see Extraordinary find it's way and identity. The main X-Men need a change of pace.

 

[squeekness]

Any book with Gambit in it gets that much better.

 

[def28]

Definitely looking forward to seeing how Duggan writes Gambit

He wouldn't reveal much but said that issue 5 where he is introduced is an important one for the series.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

The main X title still seems to be lacking and relying on retreading the same ground. Feel like the characters are just running in circles. Big fan of Lemire so hope to see Extraordinary find it's way and identity. The main X-Men need a change of pace.

As a huge fan since 1990 and having read every issue before, It's really sad but I'm starting to accept that we may have lost the X-Men. Apart from the occasional good story, they've been on a downward spiral since Decimation/MessiahComplex and with the new Inhumans mandate they've hit rock bottom.

• Professor X is an irredeemable hypocrite+dick with a new bad skeleton in his closet every bloody year (Including now knowing that Bobby was a depressed, closetted homosexual since he first joined and choosing to ignore it and not even try and help him at all?)
  
• Cyclops has become Magneto, continually fighting the "war" that Mags always talked about. He's murdered people, created a death-squad, and now aparently caused some big terrorist act that lead to his death.
  
• Beast is (at best) a fool with no regard for the consequences of his actions, messing with time/space etc as he sees fit. Bringing the young X-Men to the future was an insanely dumb idea
  
• The young X-Men in general.
  
• Wolverine becoming SO overpowered and oversaturated that it took all fun away from his character. They've had to actually kill him now to try and tell good stories about him.
  
• Uncanny X-Men is now a team up of Sabretooth, Magneto and Mystique.. this is what the X-Men has become now that we're all fine with their membership. Seriously, the X-Men are more violent now than the Acolytes or MLF ever were.
  
• And worse of all... because killing and violence are cool (wolverine and Deadpool have proved this, clearly) it's accepted in the comics that Professor X's dream "Failed", that the very idea that humans and mutants can peacefully coexist together is laughable. This was the core and centre of the X-Men and without it, they're not the X-Men anymore.

There's SO much bad, I think Storm and Nightcrawler are maybe the only two that have got out from it all unscathed. I honestly don't believe X-Men can come back from this anymore without a 52 style universe reboot. People moan about X-Men movies being with Fox but I think they understand the X-Men better than Marvel does right at the moment.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The X-Men have taken in shady, violent characters who want redemption from early on. Rogue is probably the best example. What she did to Ms. Marvel is next to unforgivable, but everyone found a way to accept her. Magneto was headmaster for a long time. Emma Frost was accepted into the school. I think that's been a central premise for a long time that being mutants are an identifying factor and they'll accept anyone who is trying to put in an effort to do right as family.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

The X-Men have taken in shady, violent characters who want redemption from early on. Rogue is probably the best example. What she did to Ms. Marvel is next to unforgivable, but everyone found a way to accept her. Magneto was headmaster for a long time. Emma Frost was accepted into the school. I think that's been a central premise for a long time that being mutants are an identifying factor and they'll accept anyone who is trying to put in an effort to do right as family.

\

I think the difference is now that people are joining without the intention of redemption. Mags etc have joined because they've realised that the X-Mens ethos and philosophies near enough match their own now. How does the X-Mens stance from the past few years go against Magneto and Mystiques beliefs?

 

[def28]

Overall I just think it's blah storytelling that's the issue, but too many X-Men definitely have violent or questionable morals nowadays which conflict with what made the teams values concrete long ago. Sometimes it is for the better, I found Emma Frost to be far more interesting as an X-Men then a villain. But overall it's too muddled in it's own morality imo. They easily have the most dangerous hero's in the Marvel universe so no **** people will be scared of them and mutants.

I think it's great to examine and focus on those darker violent themes in X-Force or a separate book, but leaving all those characters in X-Men and the schools seems too contradicting. That new Uncanny X-Men book seems way too much like an X-Force roster.

Even with the films nobody questions all the people Wolverine kills. Dude always gets a pass from Prof X and audiences don't mind. When Storm killed Callisto in X3 nobody cared or acted like she went against some code. Granted there were way worse things going on.

 

[Havok83]

The X-Men have taken in shady, violent characters who want redemption from early on. Rogue is probably the best example. What she did to Ms. Marvel is next to unforgivable, but everyone found a way to accept her. Magneto was headmaster for a long time. Emma Frost was accepted into the school. I think that's been a central premise for a long time that being mutants are an identifying factor and they'll accept anyone who is trying to put in an effort to do right as family.

those were all smaller isolated cases. These days it happens too often and with too many. The new Uncanny team is very reminiscent of Carey's X-men lineup. Nothing gradual here; just villians pop up and join the team within an arc. As other stated, each had a redemption arc, one that was well written. Rogue was instantly accepted but Magneto and Emma, it took months/years of story before they joined the X-men fold. By the time they did, it actually made sense

 

[BoredGuy]

Mystique and Fantomex are the two most curious choices on that roster
Mystique is super shady and self-serving even when she's fighting for her species
and Fantomex was pretty dang evil last he popped up in X-Force, right?

but Magneto and Sabes have been doing the hero thing lately, with Sabes still being inverted good I believe. M and Psylocke have their temper issues, but have consistently been good guys.

So yeah, it's an interesting mix but no more "evil" necessarily than Carey's run on Adjective-less

 

[Havok83]

Mystique should NEVER be trusted. Im all for people having second chances, but how many can she get? She is a villian that is completely irreedemable and honestly X-Force should have executed her years ago. Her inclusion on any X-men lineup given all she has done is a big WTF, especially since the last time, she completely played them and made them all look like fools for taking her in.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Jesus. I Just read 600, what complete mess. As for the Iceman story, it really bugs me that it's Bendis last issue, so he through that in there with no intent to write any stories surrounding it or any plan. He just wanted to turn Iceman gay and then run away.

I say "turn gay" nor "outed" because he's been written consistantly as a straight character for decades, with every thought he's had in speech bubbles or as an internal narration. He's even had multiple telepaths in his head who've never said anything, Emmas taken over his mind completely and then they were both flirtier afte, hell this means that Professor X has known this ENTIRE time but didn't think to even say anything, or to help him, or any words of advice? Prof X was just like "LOL".

I know that they want more LGB characters but this change is frankly embarrassing. Their argument being "he's always had trouble with relationships with girls" and "A gay guy fancied him once" is utterly preposterous.



Well, it was advice to his younger self. Knowing everything he must have been going through as a closeted gay man, you think he'd have found some better advice for his younger self then "you know what chicks love?"

+Speaking of thought bubbles, he's had decades of thought bubbles professing his attraction to women with no indication at all that he was gay.


Not going to lie, even outside of this (what was a throwaway scene in the issue) it was a jumbled mess of an issue. Bendis has realy dropped the ball on his run and changed a lot of things, not for the better. I'm at the point where I don't even know why I'm reading X-Men anymore.

you should probably read my previous posts.. because i did say it doesn't make sense due to the medium and "thought bubbles"

im just saying how it makes sense in the context of this story.. not his 60 year run in comics...

his speech bubbles really need to go out the window when it comes to trying to justify this in a "real world" setting... people say alot of crap to hide who they are and throw people off their scent.

as for emma frost taking over his body.. it was suggestively picked up on at the time even... Emma likely knows, but her brother is gay.. she probably isn't going to out Bobby over it... she did however mention "something is holding you back from reaching your full potential" and she did press him on trying to say what it was.. and he wouldn't.

so there were seeds planted. And he's had theories about being gay well before bendis did this story...

there was even some story in the 80s (i believe) where someone thought Beast and Iceman at a party were "together" beast was taken back by it... it didn't even phase bobby.

But the context of the comics, and the medium with thought bubbles ... no it doesn't make sense

 

[Mike Murdock]

those were all smaller isolated cases. These days it happens too often and with too many. The new Uncanny team is very reminiscent of Carey's X-men lineup. Nothing gradual here; just villians pop up and join the team within an arc. As other stated, each had a redemption arc, one that was well written. Rogue was instantly accepted but Magneto and Emma, it took months/years of story before they joined the X-men fold. By the time they did, it actually made sense

Does anyone know if the series will start with the team formed or if they'll form in that issue. If it's the former, won't they have eight months of redemption before the issue starts?

 

[Havok83]

they will but redemption arcs are for the reader as much as the characters. It will be jarring to just see villians there alongside the X-men. I already think Mystique is irredeemeable but to start her off by skipping that does her no favors

 

[def28]

Mystique and Fantomex are the two most curious choices on that roster
Mystique is super shady and self-serving even when she's fighting for her species
and Fantomex was pretty dang evil last he popped up in X-Force, right?

but Magneto and Sabes have been doing the hero thing lately, with Sabes still being inverted good I believe. M and Psylocke have their temper issues, but have consistently been good guys.

So yeah, it's an interesting mix but no more "evil" necessarily than Carey's run on Adjective-less

Fantomex went bat **** crazy in Spurriers X-Force haha.

While not a villain Betsy herself has had her share of issues, pretty sure she flat out admitted that she was addicted to killing in that series. And in the prior volume she was a confused mess involved in alot of drinking, sleeping and stealing with Cluster. Logan also had to fire her from the Jean Grey school during that time for constantly assaulting students. Granted one of them was Quire, but I guess it happened enough times for Logan to tell her that the schools not her place.

I have no idea why she would even be around Fantomex after all the crazy and mental issues he and his female counterpart have put her through in the past two X-Force volumes. It's been insanely down hill since Remenders UXF for those two.