X-Men - Part 7

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All New X-Men doesn't even sell that well. O5 have over stayed and just taking the the attention away who are actually started in 616. These o5 aren't 616 anymore based from the latest issue. I'd be complaining too if the 70s or X-Men 91 are transported into the present day.

I just don't think it's best to move forward with characters taken from the past. All those decades developing the o5 then you are just gonna bring their younger selves again to build them up for years... Again? No.
 
All New X-Men doesn't even sell that well. O5 have over stayed and just taking the the attention away who are actually started in 616. These o5 aren't 616 anymore based from the latest issue. I'd be complaining too if the 70s or X-Men 91 are transported into the present day.


and I wouldn't blame you fro complaining ether

I just don't think it's best to move forward with characters taken from the past. All those decades developing the o5 then you are just gonna bring their younger selves again to build them up for years... Again? No.

the editor's made their chose now especially now since this was crap from Joe Q time too. they have to settle for this and see how much of failure it was or still do some thing new and as to those one's of the time displaced past to be further different and seek out the dream out side the x-men. if that such a problem sadly as they said during last year's comic con they are using these younger version as a away of Atonement/ absolving for that been done with the older version's even though these ones are alternate .


if the current day editors and writers are like this they aren't gonna do what we think they should do or want.
And they didn't do alot of developing for the former original 5 til recently which was partially due to fan complaint when they finally did. but it was a forced thing and they were trying to screw those ones over too.
 
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All New X-Men doesn't even sell that well. O5 have over stayed and just taking the the attention away who are actually started in 616. These o5 aren't 616 anymore based from the latest issue. I'd be complaining too if the 70s or X-Men 91 are transported into the present day.

I just don't think it's best to move forward with characters taken from the past. All those decades developing the o5 then you are just gonna bring their younger selves again to build them up for years... Again? No.

ANX v2 doesnt feature the O5 and it quite frankly wasnt a good book. Jean was the missing sauce and #19 was the best issue of the series bc she was back with the group. There is something special about that lineup which is specifically lost without her to add to the dynamic. I expect Blue to be much better bc Bunn is a better writer and the book is positioned to be more of a flagship title as opposed to some irrelevant side book to the line

We dont know that the characters arent 616 based. They likely were as seen in ANX v1. I've been saying for the past year that they cant go back to their past bc it no longer exists for them to go back to bc of SW and thats what happened here. 616 was destroyed. Everyone exists in a new Marvel universe and this si their present.

As far as sales, it did just about as well as the other 2 books. Being "last" is kind of inconsequential when they all hovered around the 30K range. In fact ALL Marvel books have low sales outside of Spider-Man, Deadpool and Old Man Logan and Thor books. Its numbers are comparable to GoTG, Uncanny Avengers, Captain America, Daredevil, Iron Man, etc.... If you want to blame the characters for the book not selling high than what is EXM's excuse when it featured the heavy hitters of Logan, Storm, Nightcrawler, Magik, Forge and Iceman? Let me guess, Jean
 
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I just don't get the appeal of having the junior X-Men again, when those characters already grown up through the last 4to 5 decades. Its like they don't find the existing characters interesting enough,that they have back to the original line up when they were teens and then transported them up into the present day setting with the other X-Men.

They've overstayed.
 
The O5 are the most iconic X-men lineup. There is a reason Marvel keeps going back to them. They've had tons of mini series, reunions, oneshots, ongoings, etc... over the years. This is the only roster that keeps getting revisited and I think Marvel respects their legacy.

Which is ironic bc they tarnished the older versions. Jean was killed off. Warren was turned into a monster and killed off. Scott received major character assassination and his relationships with Bobby and Hank were completely ruined. Hank himself has been character assassinated. Bobby is the only one to leave the past decade unscathed. The Young O5 exist to continue the team dynamic without any of that destruction to the dynamic that the older versions endured. They went with the teen versions bc they were pretty much bank slates. They are here to stay. And lets face it. The only reason why ANX v1 existed was bc Marvel has refused to bring back Jean Grey. That was a consolation for that as Bendis wanted to write her. The series was 90% focused on her and I guess they felt the 5 were a packaged deal so the boys were brought along as well. Scott got some focus early on but even that was Jean heavy. The only thing he did with Bobby was make him gay, Warren got cosmic wings and a gf and nothing was done with Beast. ANX v2, at the very least helped flesh and give the boys layers they were sorely lacking, likely bc Jean wasnt there as even Hopeless made it clear that she is who he wanted (and fortunately got for her solo)

I have a feeling that eventually Young Scott and Jean will be used to "resurrect" the older versions, Bobby will be killed off and Warren and Hank may persist since they are so different than their older selves
 
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There's no denying that o5 is the most iconic line up. But all new 1970s line up is also iconic so as the 1991 X-Men line up and Whedon's Astonishing X-Men. But I don't want to see them be transported into the present or now and remain there/here for good. O5's purpose was so Beast could convince Cyclops on what the X-Men were in the past and Cyke is dead now So as many other mutants. Five years later, these five are still here. I just don't think its that great to see the evolution of the X-Men to go backwards by reintroducing the o5 in their teenage years. As of now, they are only two X-Men teams, the very little gold line up and the o5.
 
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I could write a novel about my feelings towards this development with the O5. But I think this should suffice:

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It's just so LAZY! They don't want to put the effort into making new icons, it's too hard for them to try telling stories with new, unique, young students. So instead, they recycle the same old characters who have been around from Day 1. Creativity is dead.
 
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I could right a novel about my feelings towards this development with the O5. But I think this should suffice:

http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2FJack-Nicholson.gif


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I feel the same way to a degree



It's just so LAZY! They don't want to put the effort into making new icons, it's too hard for them to try telling stories with new, unique, young students. So instead, they recycle the same old characters who have been around from Day 1. Creativity is dead.
it's more then that it that alot of fan are mad at for what happen to the older version still and see it online in comment and alot other places where these event are talked about in article and interview with the writers where fans ask them this in Q&A.


the problem is this stuff they put the older versions through they don't realize when put them through certain things that they should know aren't gonna be forgiveable or they know are out of character but they do it any way, it get's people mad and they seem not to like the idea of loosing fanbase's after the fact cause they want to do what they want with character with out being questioned.



but they keep screwing up cause they don't care for any of the stuff that happened before them attime and don't want to hear from the fan base that this isn't what this character would do and truth be tol if you don't want them hated so badly you put in to any situion and think not despise them that part is obvious . but some writers put into and gowhat's wrong? Really?


and as to them creating new character to make name for them selves while they still can, the problem is the next writer will just ether write that character out or have them killed in favor for their own creation , it's not that there isn't any room "there is always room", it's that alot of them don't care for anything or one before them but them selves . don't want know that other character personality it like so they write them out so they don't have hear from the fan base how they screwing up that new character befor their run started personality too.

it's this mentality that the problem and not wanting to hear they are screwing up. so right there they think where this is thinking that using this younger version's with out the baggage. they can have some peace using these characters teway they want cause the older version while they did have cool history's they had baggage that made new readers people hate them as well just reading profiles .

And they rather start afresh cause tired of hearing about it.

which also mean's they better not do the same things with these one as well. don't turn them in to "a holes" with irredeemable mistakes personal life or other wise with poor chose actions , that they can't take back since that's what the new reader ship / audience finds unacceptable.


but too many new and up and coming writers have this "I'm bored mentality "and do that regardless it's a weird futile effort. when they just repeat the same things.


Well we'll have see if they can avoid that crap . but keep saying if you don't your character hated inthat way why put them in position you know people in your audience won't ever forgive the characters for doing such an action? Why?


this is also why dc their competitor has reboot syndrome
 
I suppose Hank could have brought just Jean back. If he wanted Scott to "come to his senses," Jean would have sufficed. But whatever, I enjoyed ANXM Vol. 1 and X-men Blue is one book out of many in the new line-up.

I didn't care for this last issue or Prime because I'm already sick of Emma being a villain. And I don't friggin get Cyclops' angst... what do people think the adult version did in Death of X that was so heinous???

I hope Resurrexion is a fresh-ish start and we can just ignore the last two years.
 
I suppose Hank could have brought just Jean back. If he wanted Scott to "come to his senses," Jean would have sufficed. But whatever, I enjoyed ANXM Vol. 1 and X-men Blue is one book out of many in the new line-up.

I didn't care for this last issue or Prime because I'm already sick of Emma being a villain. And I don't friggin get Cyclops' angst... what do people think the adult version did in Death of X that was so heinous???

I hope Resurrexion is a fresh-ish start and we can just ignore the last two years.

Young Scott's life was still screwed over by Emma's manipulation. That played heavily into this run as he was hated, discriminated and went through a depression over what "Cyclops did". Obviously there was a behind the scenes change as DoX wasnt nearly as bad as Marvel hyped it to be but Hitler Scott was core to Hopeless character arc for Young Scott so whereas other books dropped it, he couldnt. He had to be consistent and give the character proper resolution which he did in #19 with Jean putting him in a place to move on
 
I wonder howthe New Yorkers would react to X-Mansion suddenly taking over central park? Isn't that illegal? Plus it would just attract violence to the area since X-Mansion is always under attack.
 
I wonder howthe New Yorkers would react to X-Mansion suddenly taking over central park? Isn't that illegal? Plus it would just attract violence to the area since X-Mansion is always under attack.

It is, and makes absolutely NO sense. Not to mention they have a friggin jet.
 
They should move to some remote area in America and live there. Lol. Trouble always find the X-Men. So no need to drag the big population of NYC into it.
 
so found this article both stupid and interesting at the same time
the reson spider man renew your vows is liked is cause they show case the heroes behaving like normal people unlike what been pushed inthe books 2013 happened and the obsession with the movies took full swing at marvel. and may they don't like the replacements. there was diversity before but the issue right now is they way they did it was forced change and it wasn't gonna go down well with how they did it. bthere nothing wrong with diversity it was the action they took to make it happen the other problem is still and has al been getting new readers . there still need to be better way to have access to comic's . Comic books stores need to make a come back in a big way .



Newsarama shared a link.

4 hrs ·









Late ’16 Sales Downturn Told Marvel ‘People Didn't Want Any More Diversity’
A top Marvel executive says the company has received a clear message about what fans want.

Read more

March 31, 2017 02:56pm ET



Divided_We_Stand.jpg
Credit: Mike Deodato Jr. (Marvel Comics)



Champions_1_Cover.jpg

Credit: Marvel ComicsAccording to David Gabriel, Marvel's Senior Vice President of Sales, Print & Marketing, a sales downturn at the publisher that accompanied a "big shift in the entire industry" beginning in October 2016 came as a result of many factors, including, according to the executive, the market "turning up their noses" at any title not featuring a "core Marvel character."
Suggesting the answer to the question of why people's tastes suddenly changed was better answered by Direct Market retailers,

Gabriel told ICv2 that "What we heard was that people didn't want any more diversity. They didn't want female characters out there. That's what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don't know that that's really true, but that's what we saw in sales."

Gabriel described what was no longer viable as "things that we had been doing successfully for the past three years..."


"We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against," he explained. " That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked."

Gabriel cited other factors for the market shift, including the economy, specifically events occurring in October/November that affected how consumers wanted to spend their money (with the unsaid implication of the U.S. presidential election), unease and lack of cash flow due to returns to Diamond Comic Distributors from DC's "Rebirth" initiative, a glut of product, and just a general sense of anger over all these issues.

"There was anger because of story reasons for all of us."

"It was the old things coming back in that time period, three books in particular, Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, that had Spider-Man and Mary Jane married, that worked," he further explained. "The Venom book worked and the Thanos book worked. You can take what you want out of who might be enjoying those three books, but it is definitely a specific type of comic book reader, comic book collector that really liked those three series."
alex-ross-Generations-embed.jpg

Credit: Marvel Comics
Knowing they had to make changes to adjust to the market, Gabriel explained it took six months in order for them to execute their plans, which they're now starting to promote. Recently the publisher revealed a marketing intiative which will feature the return of its classic characters and include the tagline "Make Mine Marvel."

Marvel's upcoming Generations series, which takes place during its summer Secret Empire crossover, will pair new iterations of Marvel's heroes with their classic counterparts.

source: NEWSARAMA.COM
 
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It is, and makes absolutely NO sense. Not to mention they have a friggin jet.

Is that really what breaks your suspension of disbelief in a book about people who can walk through walls, control metal with their mind, or shoot absence of heat in beam form?
 
Is that really what breaks your suspension of disbelief in a book about people who can walk through walls, control metal with their mind, or shoot absence of heat in beam form?

Actually yes bc powers work within the context of that world. The school in the middle of Central Park, however does not, especially with the new mission statement about being seeing more as heroes. Illegally siezing public land and putting themselves in a position to cause collateral damage to the thousands that are passing through there on a regular basis is such a great way to go :whatever:
 
so found this article both stupid and interesting at the same time
the reson spider man renew your vows is liked is cause they show case the heroes behaving like normal people unlike what been pushed inthe books 2013 happened and the obsession with the movies took full swing at marvel. and may they don't like the replacements. there was diversity before but the issue right now is they way they did it was forced change and it wasn't gonna go down well with how they did it. bthere nothing wrong with diversity it was the action they took to make it happen the other problem is still and has al been getting new readers . there still need to be better way to have access to comic's . Comic books stores need to make a come back in a big way .



Newsarama shared a link.

4 hrs ·









Late ’16 Sales Downturn Told Marvel ‘People Didn't Want Any More Diversity’
A top Marvel executive says the company has received a clear message about what fans want.

Read more



source: NEWSARAMA.COM
What a shock. They of course decide that the problem is with the readers, not themselves, so they're arbitrarily turning their back on all the progress they've made. :cmad:
 
Actually yes bc powers work within the context of that world. The school in the middle of Central Park, however does not, especially with the new mission statement about being seeing more as heroes. Illegally siezing public land and putting themselves in a position to cause collateral damage to the thousands that are passing through there on a regular basis is such a great way to go :whatever:

Kitty is already doing a superb job as their leader.

Marvel's direction with the X-Men is just absurd. Like I wanted them to be like the Walking Dead of the Marvel Universe. Endangered species, numbered, on their own... And now they want to make them actual superheroes and public figures... Isn't that what Avengers are for? Like I already see that in a few years from now, they are living in another city or hiding somewhere. It's just a never ending attempt for public acceptance/approval and the X-Men aren't destined for that so why repeat this search of approval again and again. Like they are already being hunted by Sentinels again in X-Men Gold.
 
What a shock. They of course decide that the problem is with the readers, not themselves, so they're arbitrarily turning their back on all the progress they've made. :cmad:

They aren't wrong. The geekdom is rife with... unsavory types. People complain about lack of newness, but the its the "fans" that are the real problem. They don't want new stuff. They don't like changes.
 
They aren't wrong. The geekdom is rife with... unsavory types. People complain about lack of newness, but the its the "fans" that are the real problem. They don't want new stuff. They don't like changes.
it's half that and there are indeed those that want thing the same no matter what and those are the one that barley even read the book.

but the thing of late that's a thing is the problem is the transition. the problem here is how it happening thor has always repeatedly lost that hammer so that's not a problem.

but for some others like cyclops or spiderman or captain america or prof X I think fan are tired of the writer doing character assassination doing it for controversy . when they can just do it the normal way put the character in administrative position's and let the new people handle the field work. it's not that hard . but some writer think ok I'll kill this character off and put in my creation and while the new people are there doing the job they are missing thing, like certain skills that are needed to do the job and while some might say they will learn it the writer's these day's make it so they won't learn that much needed skill for a very long time(as in years) and alot of people these day don't like to wait.


they have alot impatience issues especially they know how alot of writers act these days . and it's not helping that writer's have been making character not as smart as they used to be ether just to push the story along. it's a number of issue's it's just simple one answer any more sadly

I think there is room for but as there's always been befor but they need to stop replacement in the I'll kill them off way and also ruin their rep or what was likeable about them to do it . << this is why there strong back lash and make them a boss figure like bruce wayne was in batman beyond or when he became police commissioner of Gotham in the golden age and he had his daughter helena wayne when he started batman inc or the out siders.


tony stark doesn't have make fast come back let riri do the work of handling the bad guys and let tony get back to in venting and being her mission control and advisor. and only show to help when she need in the iron man books.

Let them get old or more importantly move on career wise let younger other character handle the field work. let the older be the boss and handle the stuff of political intrigue etc. it's working for nick fury jr as it did worked for his dad nick fury senor and it worked for Xavier.
 
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They aren't wrong. The geekdom is rife with... unsavory types. People complain about lack of newness, but the its the "fans" that are the real problem. They don't want new stuff. They don't like changes.

That is certainly true. But the problem is still largely on the shoulders of Marvel and how they've been handling changes and the line in general lately. There's been too much change for the sake of change that's created an unpleasant environment. It's definitely not all their fault, though. Comic fans can be change-averse hypocrites with the worst of them.
 
That is certainly true. But the problem is still largely on the shoulders of Marvel and how they've been handling changes and the line in general lately. There's been too much change for the sake of change that's created an unpleasant environment. It's definitely not all their fault, though. Comic fans can be change-averse hypocrites with the worst of them.
that's what I'm saying. it's not pure simple that thing have stay the same. that's not the full problem it's how marvel went about it execution wise . and they always choose to ruin characters of late while doing it with marvels character assassinations and alot of people are fed up with it and this is why the back lash is so big.


the fanbase isn't for ruining other to have new charters around and those writers also make sure those new characters are less in some ways too. which make other refuse them . thatthe part the nedds to stop let have their own identity, we don't need replacements not at all We don't need a good character stepped on to promote a new character or others that need some over due character development.
 
Please, they've been assassinating Cyclops' character since the 80s. And to imply that this is anything new is kind of whitewashing history.
 
IMO, the Cyclops of the last few years has been the best written in years. This "character assassination" has been amazing character development
 
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