X-Men the Last Stand DVD review from IGN

[X-Maniac]

See? That's part of the reason why you received the X-Men film you did, you don't care enough about the lies or the politics to voice your disgust.

Imagine if Batman fans had that same attitude? Batman Begins would've never happened, so yes I do care about the lies and the politics, because it's what determines whether or not I'm going to see the film that I've always wanted to see.

I knew Kinberg was clueless when he said, "Batman Begins wouldn't have suffered if 20-25 minutes was cut from the final product."

There are always lies and politics - in every workplace, every company, every government... Different people do different things about it, depending on the issue.

How much did Batman fans directly influence the decision to make Batman Begins? How much fan criticism did the last of the previous Batmovies get...and was it widely noted?

How, realistically, can you ensure a better series of X-movies? And what do you regard as better? Like Singer's version? Singer's version but with some changes? A total recast/reboot? Don't different fans want different things? There is no uniform response...

 

[LastSunrise1981]

There are always lies and politics - in every workplace, every company, every government... Different people do different things about it, depending on the issue.

How much did Batman fans directly influence the decision to make Batman Begins? How much fan criticism did the last of the previous Batmovies get...and was it widely noted?

How, realistically, can you ensure a better series of X-movies? And what do you regard as better? Like Singer's version? Singer's version but with some changes? A total recast/reboot? Don't different fans want different things? There is no uniform response...

Quite a bit, if you done your research instead of blindly following a product, you know that fan response to Batman and Robin is what pushed Batman Begins to be made.

Batman and Batman Returns were considered good Batman films. The soccer moms demanded Batman be taken to a lighter direction, and guess what? WB listened to them and Batman Forever along with Batman and Robin were made.

Believe it or not, fans have a voice and their voices sometimes can get things done the right way. If Batman fans hadn't voiced their displeasure Batman would've had Ashton Kutcher as Bruce Wayne/Batman.

I don't know what can be done with the X-Men. But I do know one thing, I will not silence my voice just because Fox expects me to.

 

[danoyse]

Quite a bit, if you done your research instead of blindly following a product, you know that fan response to Batman and Robin is what pushed Batman Begins to be made.

Batman and Batman Returns were considered good Batman films. The soccer moms demanded Batman be taken to a lighter direction, and guess what? WB listened to them and Batman Forever along with Batman and Robin were made.

Believe it or not, fans have a voice and their voices sometimes can get things done the right way. If Batman fans hadn't voiced their displeasure Batman would've had Ashton Kutcher as Bruce Wayne/Batman.

I don't know what can be done with the X-Men. But I do know one thing, I will not silence my voice just because Fox expects me to.

And exactly how does insulting people here going to accomplish anything?

By the way, Ashton Kutcher wasn't able to play Batman due to scheduling conflicts with "The Butterfly Effect," not just because of a negative reaction from fans.

While the fans do have a voice and what they have to say is taken into account, ultimately the story/casting decisions are made by the studios and creative teams that are actually paying for the film to be made.

The fans weren't only what got "Batman Begins" made. The project was in development hell for years. If anything, it was the success of the first two "X-Men" films, and the first two "Spiderman" films, that got them to jump on the comic book movie bandwagon and bring "Batman" and "Superman" movies back to the big screen to enjoy that same success.

 

[Retroman]

Did Kinberg ever return to answer the post-release questions?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

And exactly how does insulting people here going to accomplish anything?

By the way, Ashton Kutcher wasn't able to play Batman due to scheduling conflicts with "The Butterfly Effect," not just because of a negative reaction from fans.

While the fans do have a voice and what they have to say is taken into account, ultimately the story/casting decisions are made by the studios and creative teams that are actually paying for the film to be made.

The fans weren't only what got "Batman Begins" made. The project was in development hell for years. If anything, it was the success of the first two "X-Men" films, and the first two "Spiderman" films, that got them to jump on the comic book movie bandwagon and bring "Batman" and "Superman" movies back to the big screen to enjoy that same success.

Um, the Butterfly Effect came out in early 2004, Batman Begins came out in 2005. Ashton WAS in the running position of being Bruce Wayne/Batman before the Butterfly Effect, and the fans calling the WB on their bull**** stopped it from happening.

Then Joshua Jackson(Dawson's Creek) was in the running for it as well, thankfully they both realized they weren't intimidating enough or old enough for Bruce Wayne/Batman.

I'm not saying that fans have all the power in the world, but to deny that fans don't have power would be a lie on anyones part. The fans are what got Batman Begins moving in the first place, the rest was up to the WB in hiring Christian Bale, Christopher Nolan, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, Cillian Murphy, Katie Holmes, and Ken Watanabe(spelling?).

It's because of fans voicing their displeasure about Batman and Robin and any future campy Batman project that Batman Begins became a reality.

The success of Spider-Man and X-Men had nothing to do with Batman and Superman being brought to life again. Believe it or not, WB wanted Batman to get even more campier after Batman and Robin.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Did Kinberg ever return to answer the post-release questions?

No. He ran off when others began to see through his BS lies. Only Penn returned to answer questions.

 

[X-Maniac]

No. He ran off when others began to see through his BS lies. Only Penn returned to answer questions.

I think Simon Kinberg found the intensity of the X-men's fanbase quite stressful - when he took on the Q&A at Xverse, I don't think he knew what he was letting himself in for! (and some people were blaming him for everything, and being very rude). To take on a project with such a fanbase and a 40-year comicbook history was entirely different for him than writing an original screenplay like Mr & Mrs Smith. He said he wanted to return to original projects and he had several things coming right up after X3. I think he had said all he was going to say about X3, or all he could say.

I wonder why he wanted so much to become involved with X3, especially if he wasn't a long-time fan of the comics.

 

[Avalanche]

Wow, this turned into a Kinberg/Penn bashing thread awfully quickly.

Looking forward to seeing those extended scenes IGN noted as being darker and more violent.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I think Simon Kinberg found the intensity of the X-men's fanbase quite stressful - when he took on the Q&A at Xverse, I don't think he knew what he was letting himself in for! (and some people were blaming him for everything, and being very rude). To take on a project with such a fanbase and a 40-year comicbook history was entirely different for him than writing an original screenplay like Mr & Mrs Smith. He said he wanted to return to original projects and he had several things coming right up after X3. I think he had said all he was going to say about X3, or all he could say.

I wonder why he wanted so much to become involved with X3, especially if he wasn't a long-time fan of the comics.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Tell 'em what he's won, Johnny!

 

[Cyclops]

I found this to be interesting:

"notwithstanding Kinberg's seemingly total unfamiliarity with X-Men either as a comic book or film series"

...

Well... you don't think it's a fair assessment?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well... you don't think it's a fair assessment?

If you're trying to use that as a remark about how the movie failed to stay true to the source material, or previous movies, then you failed, because no, I don't think that's a fair assessment.

I must say, for someone who was seemingly so unfamiliar with the source material, he sure did nail Beast, Magneto, and all the returning characters pretty well, implement fan-only known things like the Fastball Special, and stick pretty damn close to what the previous movies set up.

I find it interesting for a couple reasons, one being his constant claims of how big an X-Men fan he is.

The other being that, despite what some on here may try to convince the rest of us of, this film kept a lot of the source material and previous movies true, definatley a lot more than what someone who's so unfamiliar could do.

 

[X-Maniac]

I've just seen another review in a UK magazine called DVD Review, which features X3 on the front page and an article inside.

However, it's not a review at all. The writer spends ages talking about the background to the movie, all the politics etc... He doesn't give us a view of the movie (whether it worked as a piece of entertainment, on its own merits, compared with the previous two, or compared with the comics), he doesn't tell us what sound/picture options or extras are available. An interview with Janssen is included, and Ratner talks too about his enthusiasm. But there is no actual DVD REVIEW at all, it's all politics and background. Dreadful. I'm tempted to ring up and complain.

 

[Avalanche]

^

Is it graded?

 

[X-Maniac]

^

Is it graded?

It didn't appear to be, I will go to the shop and look again tomorrow.

 

[Storm22]

Any other reviews out yet that mention picture quality? 2/5 is a terrible score for a new DVD release!!

 

[LastSunrise1981]

If you're trying to use that as a remark about how the movie failed to stay true to the source material, or previous movies, then you failed, because no, I don't think that's a fair assessment.

I must say, for someone who was seemingly so unfamiliar with the source material, he sure did nail Beast, Magneto, and all the returning characters pretty well, implement fan-only known things like the Fastball Special, and stick pretty damn close to what the previous movies set up.

I find it interesting for a couple reasons, one being his constant claims of how big an X-Men fan he is.

The other being that, despite what some on here may try to convince the rest of us of, this film kept a lot of the source material and previous movies true, definatley a lot more than what someone who's so unfamiliar could do.

Well, it's not like it would be hard to do. All you really need(in terms of X-Men) is to read the comics and watch the first two movies to get a basic foundation.

Now, with that being said, I never believed that Kinberg or Penn were as big of fans as they say they are. I don't care how many people defend them, defend Fox, or make excuses, the bottom line is for them to be fans of the source material they sure took a major crap on its most emotional and epic story in the X-Men universe.

In actuality they didn't truly nail Beast. He was true to Beast form, but nothing really showed how he is a genius and how unique he is. I wanted to see Beast recite Shakespeare, play the piano, working in his lab mixing chemicals, and so on and so forth. There is a lot of blame to go around really and whether you agree or not, it's simply my opinion on the matter.

What do you mean by staying true to the source material?

Xavier and Cain are not acknowledged as Step-Brothers.

Storm wouldn't call those who wanted the cure "cowards".

Xavier wouldn't have turned into a dick. He more or less would've said, "I don't have to explain myself. But I hope one day you'll see why I did this."

Jean doesn't kill Cyclops in the comics nor in the Animated Series.

Rogue would've never taken the cure.

It's not Wolverine holding Jean as she dies, it's Cyclops.

Wolverine would not give a speech like that to the kids.


So there's a lot of things that didn't stay true to the source material. The only thing that was true was the action. As I said, there's a lot of blame to go around here. I blame Fox, Rothman, Kinberg, and Penn really. Ratner, on the other hand, is just a studio yes-man and he only did what he was told since he doesn't have a spine.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Any other reviews out yet that mention picture quality? 2/5 is a terrible score for a new DVD release!!

Why would the picture quality be bad on a new DVD release?

 

[Storm22]

Why would the picture quality be bad on a new DVD release?

That's what I'm wondering, but the latest 2 reviews have mentioned faults with the pic quality.

 

[X-Maniac]

Why would the picture quality be bad on a new DVD release?

Probably because it's an advanced copy. They are probably trying to stop bootlegging/pirating by sending out early preview copies that are of crap picture quality. Or the final mastering has not yet been done.

Similarly, the sound quality on many advance music promos is poor, because at that stage they have not been mastered for release.

 

[danoyse]

The copy IGN reviewed was labeled as a "screener," so it's probably not finished yet. DVD review possibly had a screener as well.

I'm surprised they're even doing reviews of the DVD this early. It's still a month away from release.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

So...when does Europe get the 2 disc edition? will they get 10 and the 8 deleted scenes?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

In actuality they didn't truly nail Beast. He was true to Beast form, but nothing really showed how he is a genius and how unique he is. I wanted to see Beast recite Shakespeare, play the piano, working in his lab mixing chemicals, and so on and so forth. There is a lot of blame to go around really and whether you agree or not, it's simply my opinion on the matter.

Okay, while a lot of that might have been nice, there was really no place for it in the film. And what WAS presented for Beast was very accurate to the source material. Again, you can't display every single character trait that a character has had over a 40 year run in one, or even 3 movies. That's why we didn't have a swashbuckling Nightcrawler, because the character trait that better defined the character, and better worked with the story, had to be used. That's why Colossus wasn't really given any characterization, because he was always caught up in a story that had more important characters. But what we did get of Beast was totally spot on.

What do you mean by staying true to the source material?

Xavier and Cain are not acknowledged as Step-Brothers.

Just as Lady Deathstrike had no connection to Wolverine in X2. There are some character traits and character arcs that just really serve no purpose to the overall story being told. Xavier and Juggernaut being step brothers is one of those. How would that have served the story? It wouldn't have. It was unneccesary. I'm glad they didn't do it. Other than that, Juggernaut was done pretty well in my opinion.

Storm wouldn't call those who wanted the cure "cowards".

Well, I agree that Storm was never truly Storm in any of the films, and throwing a "coward" at the end of "who would want to take this cure" doesn't give her the purpose Halle thinks it did.

Xavier wouldn't have turned into a dick. He more or less would've said, "I don't have to explain myself. But I hope one day you'll see why I did this."

I've seen quite a few arcs where Xavier turns into a dick. In fact, before X-Men: The Last Stand came out, and I was working on my own fan-fic of what I'd do with the movie, Xavier's turning into a dick from the comics was a very influential piece to my story.

Jean doesn't kill Cyclops in the comics nor in the Animated Series.

No, you're right, she doesn't kill Cyclops. Nor does she kill Xavier. But they couldn't take this saga into space and have her eat a planet. So they showed her destruction in other ways. Do I agree with the direction? No. They could have done better. But it is a display of the capability of this woman, this being. And in the source material, the character is capabil of some very awe inspiring things. These events are just the movie's version of that.

Rogue would've never taken the cure.

You're right. No arguement from me.

It's not Wolverine holding Jean as she dies, it's Cyclops.

K. I haven't read the arc myself, but apparently, from what I've heard, in Endsong, it's Wolverine who takes out Jean, in what I've heard, much the way he does in the movie. Yes, Cyclops would have been the better choice. But what Wolverine did is not out of character for him in the least bit.

Wolverine would not give a speech like that to the kids.

You're right, and I wish they would have kept the "If you go to war, you might not come home, she might not come home" version of the speech. Because Wolverine IS protective of the younger X-Men, and it would have fit perfectly.

But then again, it's not totally out of character for Wolverine. These are the things that deep down inside, he feels and believes. Granted, source material Wolverine wouldn't say it, he'd let Storm do it (and she should have), but it's not so out of character that it truly ruins it.

So there's a lot of things that didn't stay true to the source material. The only thing that was true was the action. As I said, there's a lot of blame to go around here. I blame Fox, Rothman, Kinberg, and Penn really. Ratner, on the other hand, is just a studio yes-man and he only did what he was told since he doesn't have a spine.

There's a lot of things that didn't stay true to the source material in X-Men or X2 either. The original X-Men aren't Cyclops, Jean, and Storm (Beast was acknowledged as an original in the 3rd, obviously). Iceman is a wisecracking smart alec, not a timid, shy character. Wolverine and Sabretooth have a history. Wolverine and Lady Deathstrike have a history.

I don't see anything that X-Men: The Last Stand did as worse than anything done in the previous 2 movies. And just like the previous 2 movies, despite a few inconsistancies with the source material, the overwhelming majority of it was very true to the comics and cartoons. Magneto was very on point with his whole war, and recruiting, and his whole terrorist arc. Beast was spot on as a politician. Because I have seen the political Beast in the comics, so that wasn't out of character at all. Minus a couple instances of unfound leadership, Wolverine was spot on. And yes, Xavier was spot on, even with his supposed ass-hole-edness. Which I didn't even think was that bad. Wolverine is still the outsider of the X-Men, and here he comes arguing with Xavier over something that Xavier essentially did to protect the world. Wolverine hasn't the slightest friggin' clue as to what Xavier did and why, yet he comes in forcing his opinion down Xavier's throat. Xavier had a right to be pissed, and put Wolverine in his place. And it's not out of character in the least.

 

[X-Maniac]

Okay, while a lot of that might have been nice, there was really no place for it in the film. And what WAS presented for Beast was very accurate to the source material. Again, you can't display every single character trait that a character has had over a 40 year run in one, or even 3 movies. That's why we didn't have a swashbuckling Nightcrawler, because the character trait that better defined the character, and better worked with the story, had to be used. That's why Colossus wasn't really given any characterization, because he was always caught up in a story that had more important characters. But what we did get of Beast was totally spot on.

I have to agree. Beast seemed like one of the best comic-to-screen translations we have yet seen. Even without the pointy hair, which i can understand them omitting as it would be too similar to Wolverine (though Storm did remark on the change to his hair, so they hinted it may have once been more pointy).

I guess they could have put him in a lab scene, analysing the cure in various test tubes, watched by Dr Rao... but it wasn't vital to the story to show the scientist aspect of his comicbook background.

But what they did do was spot on - his verbose language and quotations, his hanging upside down reading a book and the 'Oh my stars and garters' classic line.

Well, I agree that Storm was never truly Storm in any of the films, and throwing a "coward" at the end of "who would want to take this cure" doesn't give her the purpose Halle thinks it did.

There are elements of Storm in all three movies that do fit the comicbook counterpart. In X3, she was the intolerant Storm who sees things in black and white terms, which is how Claremont described her in an inteview I have here and how she often seemed in the comics (and the cartoons) - fairly harsh and cold at times. Comicbook Storm did not want to allow Rogue (who had been a criminal) to join the X-Men at all, she was unforgiving and had a very fixed, hard line. It was a moment where we saw more simple values that might come from living in a tribal community where life isn't so complex and societal rules are more black and white. In that way it fitted the character; but it was a change from the more compassionate Storm in X1 and X2. The deleted scene with Kitty did show some of this compassion again.

Storm in the movies has suffered a little from the lack of an origin scene, which would give her character more depth. Even the attempt to put an origin in X3 (on the balcony...and it's in the novel) was either cut or never filmed.

We did see some growth in the character since X2, which did follow through. X1's Storm spoke of her fear of humans (out of character from the comics though!), X2's Storm spoke of the X-Men hiding at the school and about anger helping her survive. In X3, she asked the professor why they were still hiding (as the world seemed a safer place), so she had less fear; and she did indeed use anger to help her survive in those battle scenes.

All in all, it adds up to a decent portrayal, despite some inconsistencies along the way. What we need next is an origin scene of some kind, and a broader, subtler use of her powers - watering flowers with a micro-storm, altering air pressure etc. I was disappointed they didn't show her powers to sense environmental change - she would know for instance that there was something wrong with the elements at Alkali Lake and could have said something: 'Logan, there's something wrong with the natural forces here, they are...out of balance'...

 

[TheVileOne]

So after months of you guys swallowing the crap that these guys are the biggest X-men fans and were giving Ratner images from the comics to match their storyboards, it's finally revealed that Kinberg actually knew little of the comics and movies themselves?

I AM SHOCKED!!!!