X-Men: The Last Stand - Scene By Scene

XCX said:
Thats for the director to decide. This is the problem. questioning a director why not this why not that... thats called decision making. Thats their right.

I think it goes without saying that a director is entitled to such decisions, but this is not my point. You stated that this movie did not need this scene and imply that it is somehow narrow-minded or unreasonable that a fan’s enjoyment of the film be lessened by the absence of it. To which I am saying that it is reasonable for a fan to be somewhat disappointed with such a decision, especially concerning a scene like this, as it was touted as the cliffhanger in the last movie and I believe even used as the opening teaser for the film’s official website. It’s not as though such expectations and potential subsequent disappointments are unfounded, particularly in this instance.
 
BMM said:
I think it goes without saying that a director is entitled to such decisions, but this is not my point. You stated that this movie did not need this scene and imply that it is somehow narrow-minded or unreasonable that a fan’s enjoyment of the film be lessened by the absence of it. To which I am saying that it is reasonable for a fan to be somewhat disappointed with such a decision, especially concerning a scene like this, as it was touted as the cliffhanger in the last movie and I believe even used as the opening teaser for the film’s official website. It’s not as though such expectations and potential subsequent disappointments are unfounded, particularly in this instance.

Given Singers wink at the comics that stayed as that, that was a bit misleading, but there are folks who know how films can take different directions. At the end o x2 i was expecting somethign fiery also, but seeing the effect they settled on for x3 in theater, I can see why they switched over... holy crap! :wow:
 
:whatever:

So why did they go with the effect they had?

Was it because Dark Willow was already so cool.
 
gambitfire said:
Which is fine but because they made it, it doesn't make it the right choice, Directors make plenty of stupid mistakes and bad decisions. Hell alot ppl do

Knew that was coming. Sorry gambitfire but there are different dos and donts for singers "science fiction film" approach as opposed to something that would be closer pulled straight from the pages. Especially very narrowminded comic fans really are disqualified from judging it since theyve all done a really bang up job in the past ;) You must find the appropriate base to bounce it off or else you get false reads.

Directors go too far, but the judges of that arent who you think. Batman 89 was brilliant. Returns was too far. Ask a pure comic fan and theyd spontaneously tell you they were both pieces of crap. Youll get no truth there.
 
???

What is with the continuous implication of narrow minded, biased and all these other excuses for making it seem like we don't have justifiable means for judging a film.

You're on this Hype too am i not supposed to take your word either?

IMO BReturns was magnificent and one of my favortie's of all times and i can't stress that enough.
 
gambitfire said:
???

What is with the continuous implication of narrow minded, biased and all these other excuses for making it seem like we don't have justifiable means for judging a film.

Because its a dialect certain types of fans dont understand but pretend they do and then slam it randomly ;) So what should be done? Pick wisely who to go to for advice. Simple as that. These type of places are the most unwise to go to for honest and reasonable advice and thats common knowledge. It may not be to you and thats the proof in itself why to go elsewhere. Of course to folks that buy into it they cant even see it themselves. Nobody expects them to as thats the entire problem. Its why actors and directors alike swear the internet off, and why Singer warned Brett about it. Smart man. I assure you if Singer fell in the graces of fanboys it was pure accident. He wasnt particularly aiming for that base.

gambitfire said:
You're on this Hype too am i not supposed to take your word either?

Ive noticed you and Theweepeople seem to use the card that because an average guy walks onto the fanatic jungle of online that they are on the same plain in povs and their pov is just as bias... this is a falsehood. The "drag you down with me" tactic really doesnt work with me. Simon and Zak came online to discuss some things, doesnt mean they agree with how the bulk of the fans think.

gambitfire said:
IMO BReturns was magnificent and one of my favortie's of all times and i can't stress that enough.

I didnt say it was crap. I said it went too far. Penguins beetlejuice look and black ooze coming from his mouth was pretty much the area where he lost many filmverse fans who know how good scifi/fantasys done. The rest of the film was overall impressive.
 
XCX said:
Because its a dialect certain types of fans dont understand but pretend they do and then slam it randomly ;) So what should be done? Pick wisely who to go to for advice. Simple as that. These type of places are the most unwise to go to for honest and reasonable advice and thats common knowledge. It may not be to you and thats the proof in itself why to go elsewhere. Of course to folks that buy into it they cant even see it themselves. Nobody expects them to as thats the entire problem. Its why actors and directors alike swear the internet off, and why Singer warned Brett about it. Smart man. I assure you if Singer fell in the graces of fanboys it was pure accident. He wasnt particularly aiming for that base.

Because you're views are the only ones that are right and you know so much about what ppl around here understand and don't understand? :whatever:

actors don't swear of the internet, Halle complained about a bigger role according to her because the fans wanted it, and i doubt that was the 3 ppl who probably screamed it out too her in public.

Ratners biggest mistake was probably swearing off the internet. :hyper:

It didn't matter anyways that hackjob wouldn't do a good job if he had the right advise given too him.



XCX said:
Ive noticed you and Theweepeople seem to use the card that because an average guy walks onto the fanatic jungle of online that they are on the same plain in povs and their pov is just as bias... this is a falsehood. The "drag you down with me" tactic really doesnt work with me. Simon and Zak came online to discuss some things, doesnt mean they agree with how the bulk of the fans think.
Who are you kidding with this.

Ok mister i know better. :whatever:

I have never called you bias before you labeled it on us so i'm sorry for "trying to drag you down with me".

I'm sorry i didn't know that i could not compete with your apparent superior knowledge in film. Even though you have yet to make a good opinion against any of the remarks made against TLS around here. :)

XCX said:
I didnt say it was crap. I said it went too far. Penguins beetlejuice look and black ooze coming from his mouth was pretty much the area where he lost many filmverse fans who know how good scifi/fantasys done. The rest of the film was overall impressive.

According to who?

Last i checked the film was considered to be done rather well.


So are you done with your Pretentious act?
 
gambitfire said:
actors don't swear of the internet, Halle complained about a bigger role according to her because the fans wanted it, and i doubt that was the 3 ppl who probably screamed it out too her in public.

Granted, they pick and choose what to hear and what not to. Dont count on that little instance to open the floodgates. AAron stanford swears it off, Singer does, Ratner does. Wise people indeed. They dont need your acknowledgement of this intelligence, because that would defeat the entire purpose lol

gambitfire said:
Ratners biggest mistake was probably swearing off the internet. :hyper:

The biggest thing he did right was swearing off the internet. The biggest mistake was ignoring critics and regular fans.

gambitfire said:
Who are you kidding with this.

Ok mister i know better. :whatever:

I'm sorry i didn't know that i could not compete with your apparent superior knowledge in film. Even though you have yet to make a good opinion against any of the remarks made against TLS around here. :)

Surely I wouldnt go to you for wisdom. So you rejecting it is actually a good sign because what you deem as credible arguments are ridiculous. ;) That means im on the right track you see :D Not an OUNCE of my worth as a poster here is invested in your opinions. Lets be perfectly clear.

gambitfire said:
According to who?

Last i checked the film was considered to be done rather well.

So are you done with your Pretentious act?

The penguin was offputting to many average folks. That is clear.

Are you done thinking your povs actually hold weight? Negative. A person like me wouldnt get along here, this much was sealed in the big debate in the batman begins forums. Common sense is flipped upside down with fans on these type of boards, so it gets nasty you see, but it doesnt scare me. :oldrazz: You have your facts, I have mine. Lets not pretend some guy on a message board picking at a film in the most ridiculous ways is going to teach me logic :whatever:
 
Irony is, if you think this is arrogant, what do you think people like me think of bulk of online views, or Bryan Singer for that matter? Honestly ive never seen anything like it in my life. :eek: Im sure Bryan and tons of talented directors have a few choice words for these communities, that would trump my sugar coated expressions lol Didnt Avi Arad already do this?

If this stuff can continue online, surely I can express my pov of KNOWING its absurdity. A drop in the bucket in comparison, make no mistake.
 
Boba_Fett_123 said:
I'm admittedly a fence-sitter: I like it, I've seen it several times, but man it gets a lot wrong. It's hard to articulate that position, because I say a lot of bad things about the film, and then give it an overall good rating.

1. 20 Years Ago – So far, so good. The monologue is noticeably absent, Already the pacing problems begin to show themselves, as Erik and Charles take no time at all to talk to the Greys. There is some nice banter between them, though, and sets up their background quite nicely. Still, the scene moves too quickly, as though the writers are in a rush to unload the parents, who really needed a bigger role, especially later in the film.

2. 10 Years Ago – Ah, this is more like it. Cayden Boyd is a fantastic actor, as is Michael Murphy. This scene is, tonally, what this movie should have been. Pitch-perfect. This scene segues into the opening credits, which are nifty, but again, they seem out of place in this position, as the previous two films opened with credit sequences.

3. The Danger Room – Ah, yes. The Danger Room. All that waiting doesn’t seem quite worth it now, does it? This scene suffers quite a bit from the editor’s Wolvie-centric knife, as a lot of potential characterization is either cut to the minimum or totally neglected in favor of following Logan around the entire time. And the acting is pretty bad all around, except maybe Anna Paquin’s. Let’s not start on the Sentinel—it either needed to be seen and explained, or not seen at all. What we got was silly. Of course, even when directly addressed, Colossus doesn’t get any lines. So whatever.

4. Scott Grieves – Jimmy Marsden, we hardly knew you. Anyway, this scene is brief, but it works. Scott misses Jean, and she’s somehow haunting him from beyond the grave. If only their connection was given more importance than “here’s how we can kill Scott off”.

5. Rogue and Bobby – Rogue’s angsting about her powers because…well, actually, I’m not sure why, because X2 definitely implied she’d be getting used to them and start being a full-fledged X-Man. Come to think of it, so did the Danger Room scene, oh, 90 seconds ago. I guess the semi-hug between Bobby and Kitty is the reason, and that works well enough, but since that subplot goes nowhere, it’s considerably less effective. But Rogue should be yelling at him about that, not being all passive-aggressive “oh I can’t touch you! but I wuv you! but you don’t deserve me! but I really wuv wuv you!”. Good acting from Anna, but not the character as she should be portrayed given her arc from the previous films.

6. Scott and Logan – And so it begins. Logan is assimilating Scott. Jimmy really sells Scott’s tortured soul, and Jackman does a really good job of playing Cyclops. And another awesome statement of the Phoenix theme. Once again, the scene is too short, but it isn’t a terrible problem. Yet. Here’s the deal: this is the last time we see Scott do anything important in the movie. And all he’s doing is walking down a hall. Mull that over. But we’ll cover that injustice when the time comes. For now…

7. Meet Beast – Hehe. He’s upside down. I love Kelsey Grammer as Beast. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the best thing about this movie by far. Such a perfect way to introduce him. I wonder why his secretary gets him after the meeting has started? Shouldn’t he already be there? In fact, shouldn’t she get him ahead of time? God, she’s an awful secretary. On to the meeting, where Bolivar Trask pretends that he’s gonna be an important character, but is really just a trivia question pasted onto a character who is nothing like the original trivia question. But whatever. They’ve been tracking Magneto, which kind of begins to sell him as an Osama-esque threat to national security. The scene-in-a-scene with Mystique doesn’t work. Why was it set up like that? And on that note, why is it noted that she was imitating Trask? Continuity would say that they should have noticed that Senator Kelly was, y’know, dead. The scene with Mystique is nice, but it needed to be it’s own scene. It’s silly that they’re sitting at a meeting watching this interrogation. That just wouldn’t happen. Hank’s reaction to the cure is really good. Josef Sommer kind of hams it up as the president—the “on principle” line is really overdelivered, but it’s still effective. And better than the real thing.

8. Ethics class – Really hamfisted setup for a particularly uninspired “twist” at the end. I like the discussion of ethics, but I’d like it more if it tied into the Phoenix story like it really should have. I hate Dell product placement. But in seriousness, these ideas of power and responsibility needed to relate to Jean, and the writers dropped the ball.

9. Charles and Storm - This scene is a giant missed opportunity. What should have been a chance to flesh out Storm’s backstory and character just turns into mindnumbing exposition, and the ridiculous statement that Scott’s a “changed man”. Well, he is if you leave in his room by himself for however long it’s supposed to have been since X2 ended. Writing off the leader of the team like that? I have a feeling Tom Rothman wrote that line. It doesn’t work, it reeks of shoehorning Scott out of the story, and honestly it’s just bad writing. Oh, and there’s something Xavier’s not telling us. Zak Penn insists that’s not about the cure, which would be true, because Xavier doesn’t know about it yet. Otherwise, Hank wouldn’t have come all the way from Washington on his way to San Francisco to deliver that news in person. Oh, wait, that doesn’t make any sense…I thought Hank was a doctor? I guess he’s got some frequent flier miles saved up. Anyway, Penn says it’s a reference to Phoenix, but it doesn’t really make any sense. In fact, the entire exchange is stupid, and doesn’t move the story forward at all. It’s just words to give Halle something to do. It shouldn’t have been hard to put in a line, just a line, to give Halle more depth. If Storm was going to get a bigger role, there needed to be some meat added to it. Instead, they just blew up her role in X2, giving her roughly twice the screentime and halving the significance.

10. The Cure – Here we go. More Kelsey is always good. The reunion of Storm and Hank works well, and feels natural. I like it; the film could use more moments like this. But the scene immediately devolves to the PowerPoint style of scripting that Kinberg and Penn seem to favor. Seriously, this scene goes from one talking point to the next like a flowchart, not natural conversation. It’s too fast, and it seems like they just can’t wait to get the exposition out of the way. I’d normally accept this, but it’s not like they’re making room for more interesting characterization, because as soon as the expositing is over, the scene ends. Logan’s back in character, which is good to see. If only he’d stay that way. I have a feeling some of these scenes were written before the Scott “parameters” were set.

11. Storm Reacts to the Cure – I realize it’s not technically a scene, but this deserves its own entry. This does not work. For one, Halle is speaking way too quickly, like she’s reading a cue card that Kelsey’s holding for her. Second, it doesn’t make any sense. She’s being offensive, she’s spewing vitriol that really has no relevance to the situation…it’s not even like she has a point. She’s just reiterating her stance without giving reasons. And she comes off like a *****. This is not Storm. Not good at all.

12. Announcing the Cure – the scene more or less plagiarizes Whedon’s scene from Astonishing X-Men #1, with the Alcatraz bit shoehorned in because Ratner thought it’d be cool. Anna’s reaction works. But wait—we’re back to Halle the über-*****. She pretends to apologize to Hank for being so insensitive, but then she freaks the hell crazy on Rogue not fifteen seconds later. Rogue needed to have something to say after Storm insists that nothing’s wrong with Rogue, though clearly it is. Of course, Rogue shouldn’t even be contemplating the cure, but I’m beginning to think by this point that no one involved in this movie watched X2.


First of all, I have to just comment on how much I have enjoyed reading this first post. It's a very humourous and realistic way of reviewing the film. So I want to chime in with my views.
I too am completely on the fence when it comes to this film. Although I am severley pissed with Fox, Ratner, whoever is to blame about the devastation that was this film, I still can't help but enjoy it for what it is, a cheap popcorn movie.

1. 20 Years ago - I completely agree that the Xavier Monologue was missing here. It's not that I dislike the scene, but I was a huge fan of the monologue from the previous films. I thought that they were somewhat chilling. Nevertheless, the scene was necessary for the story, but I also felt that we immediately saw the pacing problems. I also found that young Jean came off as arrogant and unpleasant, instead of a young girl deeply traumatised over the death of her best friend.
2. 10 years ago - This was a much better flashback. It didn't appear rushed, and showed the emotion involved when discovering you are a mutant. However, it was at this stage that it occured to me that these two scenes desperately imitated the opening sequences of X-Men in a way. Instead of Erik discovering his powers, we have Jean. Instead of Rogue's emotion, we have Warren's. Also, I have to say that I am not a big fan of the score in TLS. I much preffered the score of the two previous films.
3. The Danger Room - I'm sorry, but I hated everything about this scene. I thought the first shot we had of Storm flying looked terrible. They pulled off the flying effects in Supergirl better! I agree that the acting all round was terrible, apart from an extremely convincing performance from Paquin when seeing her boyfriend show affection to someone else. I also don't like the Colossus effect in this film, in fact, I'm not entirely sure why Colossus is there at all? What exactly does he do? If it's for the fastball special, correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't Beast do that?
4. Scott grieves - Apart from the obvious problem of this scene being too short, I really like it. In fact, I loved what our Jimmy did with all of his material this time round. He gave an excellent performance of a man with a broken heart, and reminded me of the 90s animated episode "No Mutant Is An Island" in which Scott left the X-Men after Jean's 'death'.
5. Rogue and Bobby - By now I was wondering if there was anything in this film that I hadn't seen already (care of Fox's pre released clips). When I had seen the pre released clip, I had hoped that it was unfinished, as the exchange came across as choppy and too quick. But no, what we saw before was all we got. Another continuity issue here; Bobby gets all stroppy (arms crossed and everything!) and asks Rogue "Have I ever put any pressure on you?" Erm, yeah! Cast your minds back to X2 peeps, where he pushed her for a kiss twice. I mean, fair play to him, but it does strengthen our belief that nobody involved with TLS had actually seen the other two films.
6. Scott and Logan - Scott - no problems here. Love him, love his performance. Logan, who the hell do you think you are? As good as this scene was, it was sadly the moment when I realised that Scott was in fact going to die, and Logan was going to take his place. Not a happy bunny.
7. Meet Beast - I agree that Kelsey was an astonishing Beast. He looked the part, and played the part. Much better than I would have expected. Our fabulous author of the thread has in fact pointed out something that I'm rather ashamed of myself for not noticing, the sudden disappearance of Senator Kelly. This is a very valid point. I'm not American, I'm British, so please forgive me if I say anything out of line here. But aren't Senators considered fairly big business over there? As in, one would notice if suddenly a highly publicised Senator suddenly fell off the face of the planet? That sucks. Imprison her for impersonating Kelly, and therefore being charged for the murder of Kelly? Wouldn't that have been more believable and in line with the previous films?
8. Ethics Class - I totally agree with everything said by Boba, so not much else to say other than this was the only scene I liked Kitty in.
9. Charles and Storm - Here we go. The beginning of Halle being given a part that is pretty unnecessary and insignificant. If the scene had been used as Boba said to delve into Storm's past, then it would have passed as a beautiful and touching scene. It was in fact the first time we have really seen the close relationship that exists between Ororo and Charles (I always thought he had a thing for her in the 90s animated series! LOL). I was also disgusted with the off-hand dismissal of Scott here. Changed man my arse. I didn't see anyone do anything to help him. Oh, other than Logan getting all arsey with him in the corridor. So yeah, pretty pants on the whole. Best acting I've seen from Halle so far in the trilogy though.
10. The Cure - The only thing I really have to say about this scene is that it SHOULD have been paramount. It was an essential moment in the film where we realise where the story is going to go. It lasted......how long? WTF is that all about? Talk about rushed and half-arsed!
11. Storm reacts to the Cure - LOL, I wonder if the film makers have realised what a major boo-boo they made with this? I was evil. When I saw the trailer, I really liked the line "Nothing is wrong with any of us for that matter", it sent chills down my spine, and I envisioned an extremely emotional and powerful scene in which the X-Men as a team would have debated the pros and cons of this cure. What a disappointment. We never find out what the feelings of Bobby, Kitty, Peter etc are to this cure. In fact, do they even know about it?! They never have any reaction to it at all. All we are treated to is Storm coming across as an Ironclad ***** and if I had been Rogue, I would have touched her to show her exactly how wrong my powers were, and if I had been Beast, I would have given her a slap for having such a short memory re: the feelings of others.
12. As above
 
XCX: You are incredibly arrogant for as long as you've been here. TLS doesn't hold a candle to Batman Returns, at all. The fact is, this film is a rushed mess. The writing is insufficient and inconsistent: the script either clobbers us with endless exposition, or it is WAY too minimalist. The directing is serviceable at best: any interesting visuals in this film (of which there are plenty) are solely because of the cinematographer, which Ratner himself admits on the commentary. In fact, with many of his comments, it seems like everyone BUT him made decisions on this film.

As far as the director's responsibility goes, yes, the director calls the shots. But sometimes he calls the WRONG shots, and TLS is a shining example of that.
 
Boba_Fett_123 said:
XCX: You are incredibly arrogant for as long as you've been here. TLS doesn't hold a candle to Batman Returns, at all. The fact is, this film is a rushed mess. The writing is insufficient and inconsistent: the script either clobbers us with endless exposition, or it is WAY too minimalist. The directing is serviceable at best: any interesting visuals in this film (of which there are plenty) are solely because of the cinematographer, which Ratner himself admits on the commentary. In fact, with many of his comments, it seems like everyone BUT him made decisions on this film.

As far as the director's responsibility goes, yes, the director calls the shots. But sometimes he calls the WRONG shots, and TLS is a shining example of that.

Well i find this to be ultimately misconstrued and twisted into "the film was crap". It cant be, because i saw a lot of good with my own two eyes you see. Surely if you can believe this to be infallible fact, i can believe it to be rubbish on a public message board no? Arrogance is all around you yet you choose to not see it and look at the guy noticing. Quite entertaining.
 
Arrogance is an understatement, his ignorance is blinding too the point where i won't even bother with him anymore. Let him believe he's right, in his nice little perfect world. :)

The funny part is he has YET TO MAKE AN DECENT POINT OR IN THIS CASE EVEN OPINION DEFENDING TLS.

:D
 
Scott's grieving, but he's still neglecting his duty, something that doesn't seem to affect ANY of the other X-Men after both he AND Xavier died. He is the team leader, and he needs to lead them, or else yes, he's having a cavalier attitude. Xavier says it himself, however idiotically: "Scott is a changed man".

Cavalier means "Showing arrogant or offhand disregard; dismissive: a cavalier attitude toward the suffering of others" or "carefree and nonchalant; jaunty"

There's not an OUNCE of that to be found in Scott not taking part in training exercises because he's so depressed over Jean's death. I'm referring to being cavalier about a specific situation...in this case, the Danger Room. Scott isn't being "cavalier", period. There's a reason I chose the word. It applies to Logan's actions in the Danger Room, but not to Scott.

Why is what Xavier says "idiotic"? Scott IS a changed man in the film. And for all Xavier knows (since he cannot see the future), that may never change. And besides, Xavier says he could see Storm taking over the school, not taking over the leadership of the X-Men.

You're right, Logan didn't ever tell Scott not to go after Jean. But he did tell him to move on, which Scott didn't do. He went off on his own, when he's having clear psychological trouble, without seeking help from the people he loves. Basically, he did exactly what you said he wouldn't.

Why the hell should Scott "move on" just because Logan tells him to? You act like you think Logan gave Scott good advice that he should have heeded. Logan doesn't know how Scott feels, and he doesn't know that Jean's "contacted" him. So his advice, in context, is pretty worthless. Scott's line "Not everyone heals as fast as you, Logan" has a definite point to it. What Logan said was hurtful, and somewhat rude. Not everyone moves on as quickly as he feels Logan does. It has depth, because in truth, we see that Logan hasn't really moved on, either. They find common ground in their last scene together, hence the look on Logan's face as Scott leaves.

Again...there's an enormous difference between going to where you think the love of your life has somehow survived by yourself to see what's going on...and marching into an incredibly dangerous situation involving Dark Phoenix and Magneto by yourself to bring her home.

What I was thinking: Wanna know something truly silly? A sentinel OUTSIDE of the danger room lol. Brilliant choice by Mr Ratner. Brilliant. A perfect way to wink at the comics without getting too over the top. This is an art that filmverse enjoys doing.
I agree. Making the Danger Room a Days of Future Past moment was a great move.
Ill agree there. More time plz... good god Ratner that was a pigheaded pacing move.
It's not like Scott doesn't have any extended time to shine after that. People act like that was his last scene with anyone, when his best scene is still the come.
Overacting? I wonder.. has anyone here been to a town meeting or some kind of meeting where landlords decide to raise the rent in a vote? The tenants are there and are boisterous. Id say that was tamed in comparison. Callistos super speed wasnt needed at ALL imo, so I dont know why that was placed in, but why would it be a big deal. It wasnt.
Agreed. There's not really any overacting, there.
We did NOT need a phoenix rising scene. Its an obsession of fanboys but everytime they druel over a firebird in a comic they seem to fester up a blatant intolerance of filmverse ideas, and thats just their own problem. The whirlpool was a very nice touch and I enjoyed the sublety of how she rose with the gold light. Its actually a good thing that this film didnt have more sfx. That wasnt a widespread complaint lol. As for the shock cut, once again less sfx. Im happy. I suppose that was mercy toward the cyclops fans. If they showed it i wouldnt mind either.
Phoenix Rising would have been nice to see, but I preferred seeing Scott's reaction instead of a cut from him reacting to Phoenix and so forth, or just the back of him while Phoenix rose. It's a perfectly acceptable filmmaking technique. Just because Phoenix Rising could have worked, doesn't mean that what the film did didn't also work.
I think we better be glad for this and the scene in which Xavier cries out aloud. It was the main scenes they showed emotion and concern toward Scott in such a cramped runtime. If it werent for those scenes, I wouldve wondered why no emotion for Scott either, but due to this Its understandable that pressing issues kept them occupied for the long haul in this film.
Yep.
I enjoyed this scene overall. Memories fuzzy here. Didnt they talk about the actual technicalities with keeping the school open here? This indeed shouldve also been a place to slow the hell down and flesh Angel out. Would Brett do this?
How does one flesh Angel out in this scene without losing the direction of the scene itself? I guess you could have him come to the door and deliver an awkward introductory expository speech...but don't people on these boards hate that?
And long, clunky exposition that's delivered in a straight, non-dramatic manner like Xavier's explanation for Phoenix is generally considered a no-no in film.
Generally. Have a better way to get all that information into one scene? They phrased it as Xavier telling a story to Logan. And Stewart made it work. The reason such expository dialogue is avoided in most movies is that most actors cannot make it work. In a situation such as Phoenix, though, it's important to know where it came from. Short of having eight or nine cut scenes of Xavier putting the mental blocks in while Jean was a child, having sessions with her, etc, this was probably the most efficient way to go.
They emphasis how this was a form of bad story telling and basically insulting the audience intelligence.
No, insulting the audience's intelligence would be repeatedly pointing out why Dark Phoenix emerged. The writers don't do that in the film, they're far more subtle with her story. Again, the reason most film doesn't utilize this kind of exposition is that most actors can't do it, and most characters appear incredibly forced when you hear it. But Jean has been with the X-Men for two films. She's not being introduced. Only a part of her past is.
 
gambitfire said:
Arrogance is an understatement, his ignorance is blinding too the point where i won't even bother with him anymore. Let him believe he's right, in his nice little perfect world. :)

The funny part is he has YET TO MAKE AN DECENT POINT OR IN THIS CASE EVEN OPINION DEFENDING TLS.

:D

The irony of that statement.
 
Yes please do move on :whatever:

TheGuard Ill get to your replies in a second. i always enjoy your posts.
 
How about you answer my question that i had original asked, Why did they go with the Phoenix effect we got?
 
Guard: You're right, Scott isn't being cavalier. That's my error. We do at least agree he is neglecting his duty, though? And that is a very un-Scott like thing. If anything, Scott would bury himself in his work.

Oh, and talented writers don't ignore exposition: they make it seem natural, and work it into character moments.
 
The Guard said:
No, insulting the audience's intelligence would be repeatedly pointing out why Dark Phoenix emerged. The writers don't do that in the film, they're far more subtle with her story. Again, the reason most film doesn't utilize this kind of exposition is that most actors can't do it, and most characters appear incredibly forced when you hear it. But Jean has been with the X-Men for two films. She's not being introduced. Only a part of her past is.

A RATHER IMPORTANT PART OF HER PAST that doesn't necessarily fall into place with what was already set-up, thus leading to convenience in dialogue, for the sake of explaining it anew.
 
From what i understand it was written into the script, however something ocured behind the scenes, a creative decision on behalf of the company, or budget restraints. This allowed them to be more open minded and try something different and a more film verse-esque of an alteration, which I personally find to be immensely effective, as did many filmgoers.

If youre trying to trap me with this question, way ahead of you. I read the chatlogs with the writers carefully.
 
Boba_Fett_123 said:
Guard: You're right, Scott isn't being cavalier. That's my error. We do at least agree he is neglecting his duty, though? And that is a very un-Scott like thing.

That's another thing that some CB movies do wrong. When the writer, writes the character they don't write them properly, so these characters don't potray who they are supposed to be potraying, it's not just about looking like the character it's about being the character.

You can change an outfit and some stuff, but don't change who the character is.

Scott would never act the way he did.

Yes he left the X-Men but even then he still wasn't as bad as Zak and Simon wrote him.

Anyways arguing Scott on the boards is pointless considering the Studio politics behind him
 
gambitfire said:
That's another thing that some CB movies do wrong. When the writer, writes the character they don't write them properly, so these characters don't potray who they are supposed to be potraying, it's not just about looking like the character it's about being the character.

And every trillion fanatic has their varied little interpretation of what is the essence of the characters so that one day the crew will write something that can be quite brilliant and they can throw a fit. The writers expressed their valid different pov on the essence of the dark phoenix saga. Instead fans declared them heretics and told them they were wrong. Essentially what this is: set the trap, and be able to browbeat the filmverse at a whim. Unacceptable. You cant make films that way. The best way is to ask Stan Lee. Hes a reasonable guy.
 
I actually agree with Penn and Kinberg's view on the Phoenix saga. It's a valid interpretation. But the execution is poor.
 
XCX said:
From what i understand it was written into the script, however something ocured behind the scenes, a creative decision on behalf of the company, or budget restraints. This allowed them to be more open minded and try something different and a more film verse-esque of an alteration, which I personally find to be immensely effective, as did many filmgoers.

If youre trying to trap me with this question, way ahead of you. I read the chatlogs with the writers carefully.

:huh: Yes you have escaped my clutches once more...........:huh:

anyways i simply wanted to know why you felt this was more effective.

I for one felt it was lackluster and like i said before Dark Willow rip off. :p

Besides considering the budget they had and the scenes shot that where not used, i would of thought they would of put this in some kind of top maybe not so high priority.
 

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