XAVIER: The Official Character Discussion Thread

[Kira]

My secret is out!

 

[LEX]

Haha, that's Patrick Stewart?

 

[Specter313]

My secret is out!

Oh, honey. It's been out for awhile.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I was wondering which of you would realize that the Professor didn't have a thread of his own.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Whats the secret?? hehehe.

 

[Iceman]

Blasphemy!

The mentor of the X-Men and the guy behind the vision ignored until two months before the film comes out.

I'm ashamed

 

[WorthyStevens]

Blasphemy!

The mentor of the X-Men and the guy behind the vision ignored until two months before the film comes out.

I'm ashamed

Nobody cares about Baldy.

 

[Kira]

But I honestly thought that he already had a thread. I could *swore* that he had a thread...

 

[Iceman]

Nobody cares about Baldy.

Wash your mouth out or I'll start an 'In Memory of our beloved Cyke' thread

 

[chaseter]

Wow, this thread is pathetically small. So lets help out our ole Prox X.

 

[Iceman]

Survival Chances?

Discuss............

 

[Exploding Boy]

This is my contribution to Prof X's thread

 

[LMason]

I was wondering which of you would realize that the Professor didn't have a thread of his own.

That would be me, after searching on "Stewart" "Professor" "Xavier" "Charles" and getting nothing but interview threads and "professor something or others" in the title. So if there was a thread, it sure as hell has disappeared.

 

[MJB]

just a question, did you ever read the original Phoenix saga itself, and Endsong?

All the stuff youre talking about "ignoring" is itself a retcon that ignores the original story.

Where in Endsong does it say Jean and the Phoenix are separated, in fact the exact opposite happened, they were revealed to be the same, they united and they went to the White Hot Room. The Excalibur stuff is currently being explained by the "fragments of Jean/Phoenix" idea.

Well it all a load of crap if you ask me. I read Excalibur and learned all the Phoenix stuff from that series. I never even knew Jean grey was the Phoenix or had the force or whatever. Hey I didn't know cause that's when i started reading comics when that Excalibur stuff was an ongoing series. My first exposure to the Phoenix was when Rachel had it or now as some are saying was pieces of jean. Lord this is just to much to bare and to much backstory, which is why it should NEVER BE ATTEMPTED TO BE ADAPTED INTO A MOVIE, and I'm glad and have a felling that the movie is going the right way with the Phoenix. Yeah I later found out that Jean had the force or was, no is the Phoenix itself now as some say here thru excalibur. I saw that little saga on the 90's cartoon, but I did go back and get the Phoenix Saga and read it. I also read the end song, and I must point out a mistake on my part. No it was not said in the the Endsong series that Jean was disconnected from the Phoenix, but Rachel said it in the Xmen book a couple of months back. Yes she did indeed say that her mother's soul was no longer connected to the Phoenix and that she won't or can't come back. Who knows. Also So many on here say different things. Some say Jean is the Phoenix itself, and all the parts were just pieces of her even at the times when she seemed to be speaking to the Phoenix she was really talking to herself and blah, blah, blah. That was also her communicating with the Wizard Feron thousands of years before Jean Grey was supposed to be born. I guess since the White Hot room is now an option and it doesn't exist in normal space or time or is in time all aonce that can be used as a possiable explaination. Then some say she it's avatar or the force's ability to exist on this plane of existence.

So if Jean is the Phonix, who was all the different Phoenix's that showed uped in future story arc at the end. Jeez it was looked like the damn green latern corps, and if Jean is the phoenix why would the Shiar show up and slaughter her whole family? Yeah I know they said cause they didn't want to take the chance that someone in her family could weild the force like say rachel, but if Jean's the pHoenix and she's dead and some are saying she's it then what's the point. Whatever, people are just going to put their own take on it, cause it'll never be one set explanation, mainly do to the fact that Marvel screwed uped with all these different writers and their take on the Phoenix. I'm sorry but you can't go back and tell a person who's read different takes to just forget what they read cause we made a mistake or now we don't like those stories and they don't fit into what we want to do now. Yeah this happens in the comics, but at least in some cases a new writer gives a decent or at least believable explaination like say the Whole Hal Jordan/Parallax thing, even though it's a cope out it still served it's purpose to return Hal Jordan as GL and much better then what Marvel and others wants to do with the whole Phoenix backstory.

 

[Intheknow101]

Retcons are just apart of comic books. Even current story lines like Deadly Genesis are based soley on one huge retcon. Sage, a whole character, is based on a series of retcons so that she even joined the X-Men before Storm or Wolverine and knew Xavier before she was even before her first actual appearance. Heck the whole Excalibur stuff was a huge retcon flying in the face of the phoenix stuff that came before it. Just the nature of the beast.

I thought the Excalibur stuff was a "load of crap". Many people felt disgusted when they tried to retcon Jean being Phoenix. This latest retcon which includes the nature of the white hot room, Jean's phoenix cycle, and the Jean's pieces being shattered does it's best to restore the original story and intents while still providing an explaination for the Excalibur stuff.
Jean is Phoenix, but there are still many pieces of her out there that can be accessed, and given the nature of the white hot room (which transcends time and space), it explains it showing up with Feron, with Rachel and Maddie (both of whom share the same genetics as Jean) and others etc. while still maintaining that Jean is Phoenix.

Works for me.

 

[FieryBalrog]

No it was not said in the the Endsong series that Jean was disconnected from the Phoenix, but Rachel said it in the Xmen book a couple of months back. Yes she did indeed say that her mother's soul was no longer connected to the Phoenix and that she won't or can't come back. Who knows.

yea, Rachel did say that in Uncanny 460 I think. Fortunately for me, Jean as the White Phoenix made an appearance in End of Greys, so I guess Rachel was wrong.

The real reason Rachel said that at all is because the end of Endsong was re-written by the editors at the last minute. Most likely "disconnect" was the original ending and CC referenced it, and no one bothered to notify him otherwise (business as usual by the Marvel Editorial staff). CC is probably the last person on earth who wants to see Jean separated from Phoenix, he's been trying for years- ever since he wrote the Classic X-men backstories, then when he came during the Revolutions years back to Uncanny- to restore Jean to her rightful status. Every chance he gets he makes the connection, from her guest appearance in X-treme to his "The End" series. The seeds have been sown since Seagle and Kelly's run actually. Finally Morrison with a lot more editorial clout got it done.

By the way, I'm just as disgusted by a lot of the messing around they have done with the Phoenix concept, just in the opposite fashion. I want the utterly insipid Feron and Anti-Phoenix stuff far far away from Phoenix. It was a meaningless story that did nothing to advance the concept and relate it to the X-men, just a random dude who woke up a random cosmic alien entity thousands of years before, as opposed to the original concept of Phoenix being Jean's evolution into a psi. Thats why there is no entity and no BS in the original Phoenix arc, and they continually reference Phoenix as Jean's evolution. The reason the Phoenix arc worked at all in the first place wasn't because a random entity decided to chill with the X-men and go crazy, it was because one of the X-men themselves had unleashed the true potential of mankind through mutation, and was unable to handle the consequences. It was a tragic story because it involved one of the X-men, not because it involved Alien Entity 6. That's why it became famous. ANd thats why theyre going with the original story for the movie. Its 100 times more coherent and powerful.

It makes sense for Rachel to have inherited the Phoenix powers, because thats how CC intended it all along. It was Jean's genetic line that would achieve the ultimate potential as a mutant and a psi. That's why I've never had a problem with Rachel being referenced as the Phoenix in that sense. But it pisses me off when they first did the retcon, which left the original woman who was Phoenix in limbo and replaced it with some alien.

Thankfully the years have been kind and in a rather rare move Marvel has gradually realized that their own foolish editorial moves gutted a great story and killed a lot of potential. And so they've reversed it.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Wow... that was a good read, balrog. Interesting.

 

[Intheknow101]

yea, Rachel did say that in Uncanny 460 I think. Fortunately for me, Jean as the White Phoenix made an appearance in End of Greys, so I guess Rachel was wrong.

The real reason Rachel said that at all is because the end of Endsong was re-written by the editors at the last minute. Most likely "disconnect" was the original ending and CC referenced it, and no one bothered to notify him otherwise (business as usual by the Marvel Editorial staff). CC is probably the last person on earth who wants to see Jean separated from Phoenix, he's been trying for years- ever since he wrote the Classic X-men backstories, then when he came during the Revolutions years back to Uncanny- to restore Jean to her rightful status. Every chance he gets he makes the connection, from her guest appearance in X-treme to his "The End" series. The seeds have been sown since Seagle and Kelly's run actually. Finally Morrison with a lot more editorial clout got it done.

By the way, I'm just as disgusted by a lot of the messing around they have done with the Phoenix concept, just in the opposite fashion. I want the utterly insipid Feron and Anti-Phoenix stuff far far away from Phoenix. It was a meaningless story that did nothing to advance the concept and relate it to the X-men, just a random dude who woke up a random cosmic alien entity thousands of years before, as opposed to the original concept of Phoenix being Jean's evolution into a psi. Thats why there is no entity and no BS in the original Phoenix arc, and they continually reference Phoenix as Jean's evolution. The reason the Phoenix arc worked at all in the first place wasn't because a random entity decided to chill with the X-men and go crazy, it was because one of the X-men themselves had unleashed the true potential of mankind through mutation, and was unable to handle the consequences. It was a tragic story. That's why it became famous.

Word.
Claremont himself said on X-Fan that it was only what Rachel thought happened. Considering she wasn't even apart of Endsong except for a small cameo, I doubt she knows what she is talking about. And Claremont even shows Jean in full White Phoenix form in a recent arc, which gives more credence that Rachel was talking out of her wazoo. Then again, reading Endsong alone (the ACTUAL events being described) shows pretty clearly that Jean went off to find her pieces.

I too hate that Feron stuff Fiery B. It went against everything that had been known before. At least now it can be just explained as unaware pieces of Jean scattered across time and space which explains any weird or rogue occurances.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Wash your mouth out or I'll start an 'In Memory of our beloved Cyke' thread

Now that's just a low blow...

 

[MJB]

Word.

I too hate that Feron stuff Fiery B. It went against everything that had been known before. At least now it can be just explained as unaware pieces of Jean scattered across time and space which explains any weird or rogue occurances.

Well I don't hate the stories that was from excalibur and propbably good amount of people as well. Not everyone was old enough or was reading comics back when the Phoenix Saga came out. I learned of Phoenix as i've said before when rachel had it or she had a piece of her mother or whatever. As I've said before This whole Phoenix stuff is just to d@mn convoluted. First jean is Phoenix and then she's the host for the force, then she's the the ability for the Entity to manifest in her reality from her genetics. What a load of crap if you ask me. I can honestly accept the Phoenix being a separate entity and jean as it's host, but now to say she's been Phoenix all along and her many pieces were scattered throughout all space time is just silly, just like at the end of the Xmen story when at the end you see a lot of different Phoenixs, so I guess all them people were just pieces of Jean. I can accept a human getting god like power from being a host to a cosmic god or getting a hold of a device like the Infinity gauntlet or a cosmic cube, but to use the cope out that through genetics they got all this power is just plain silly. It's the same with frankiln Richards.

At some point things has to have some believablity grounded in real world reality inspite of the genre. At least DC rather bad or good keeps all this silly human turns into cosmic god because of a gene as the sole explanination out of there books. I liked it better when the Phoenix would inhabit a human host, and not this new crap about the Phoenix coming out of no where and connected to all life or gets it's power from all living things, which probably have been ousted and now Jean just has unlimited power and is a god because of a simple litte gene. Way to go Marvel. I don't mind Jean being Phoenix and having the power, but when it goes to far, just leave her out and let her stay dead for haevens sake, How in the world did the Magneto imposter kill her anyway? A creature that can eat stars can't handle the far lessor amount of energy that the Mags imposter pumped into her?Knowing what the Phoenix is supoposed to be it would be like him being able to kill Galactus or the Living Tribunal.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Phoenix follows a metaphysical concept I think most neopagans would be familair with.

When Jean Grey in a carnal, physical reality, the Phoenix is extremely powerful, but not a deity. She can be tricked, confused, and defeated.

It is when she ascends to the White Hot Room that she is omniscient and omnipotent - yet at the same time disconnected from reality in a way that only taking on the avatar of Jean Grey can accomplish.

So the mags imposter managed to defeat her through a loophole in physics in part because when she's wearing skin the Phoenix naturally has some vulnerabilities. It's her level of power when she dies or enters the White Hot Room, and her ability to eternally resurrect herself (or others, if she so chose) that makes her godly.

 

[MJB]

Phoenix follows a metaphysical concept I think most neopagans would be familair with.

When Jean Grey in a carnal, physical reality, the Phoenix is extremely powerful, but not a deity. She can be tricked, confused, and defeated.

It is when she ascends to the White Hot Room that she is omniscient and omnipotent - yet at the same time disconnected from reality in a way that only taking on the avatar of Jean Grey can accomplish.

So the mags imposter managed to defeat her through a loophole in physics in part because when she's wearing skin the Phoenix naturally has some vulnerabilities. It's her level of power when she dies or enters the White Hot Room, and her ability to eternally resurrect herself (or others, if she so chose) that makes her godly.

Fine.

 

[EmmaInDoubt]

my apologies for my stupidity but who are richard and judy

 

[LEX]

The hosts on a talk show.

 

[Aiden]

A couple who host a british talk show