Zack Snyder's Visuals, Amazing or Trash?

[R_Hythlodeus]

They were trash in 300. They were trash in Watchmen. They were trash in Sucker Punch. They were trash in BvS.

agreed

Man of Steel was pretty good.

I thought it look bland and boring, then again, I really don't like that movie

 

[jmc]

I think his visuals can be pretty stunning - really peaked in Man of Steel, take some time to watch Jor El's flight and check out the amazing detail of Krypton.(yes, a lot of credit goes to Weta digital, I know a guy who helped create Krypton). The establishing shots of Kansas in MoS are beautiful too.

There were some pretty amazing parts of Watchmen too.....except for the big blue penis.

Not sure how JL will turn out, but I think that as an audience we need a break from Snyder's colour pallette, or lack thereof.

And of course he can bring comic book panels to life better than anyone I've seen so far - but the sad thing is that when he brings those panels to life he's done such a poor job of telling the story that we don't often care.

Kind of wish the poll had one more option, somewhere between him having
his moments and making the best looking cbms.

To be honest, visually speaking the guy is an artist but as a storyteller he's pretty average.

The problem with trying to literally adapt comic book panels is that film is not a great medium to try and replicate it. In comic books the imagery plays a massive part in the experience, you as the reader can choose to marvel at the imagery first, or plough through the story first, you can go through the book on your own time. In film the story and the imagery have to work in tandem without the benefit of giving the viewer the ability to watch at their own pace. That's why a framed image of Superman hovering over a disaster gives a different response to footage of Superman doing the same thing. With the frame your mind can accept that being a snippet of time before he goes to save the people, with 5-6 seconds of footage your mind says 'Why the f*** are you just floating there? Save them!'

 

[OutOfBoose]

The problem with trying to literally adapt comic book panels is that film is not a great medium to try and replicate it. In comic books the imagery plays a massive part in the experience, you as the reader can choose to marvel at the imagery first, or plough through the story first, you can go through the book on your own time. In film the story and the imagery have to work in tandem without the benefit of giving the viewer the ability to watch at their own pace. That's why a framed image of Superman hovering over a disaster gives a different response to footage of Superman doing the same thing. With the frame your mind can accept that being a snippet of time before he goes to save the people, with 5-6 seconds of footage your mind says 'Why the f*** are you just floating there? Save them!'

Nice illustration.

 

[Boy Scout]

The problem with trying to literally adapt comic book panels is that film is not a great medium to try and replicate it. In comic books the imagery plays a massive part in the experience, you as the reader can choose to marvel at the imagery first, or plough through the story first, you can go through the book on your own time. In film the story and the imagery have to work in tandem without the benefit of giving the viewer the ability to watch at their own pace. That's why a framed image of Superman hovering over a disaster gives a different response to footage of Superman doing the same thing. With the frame your mind can accept that being a snippet of time before he goes to save the people, with 5-6 seconds of footage your mind says 'Why the f*** are you just floating there? Save them!'

That's a great point.

 

[kguillou]

It all boils down to taste at the end of the day. TO me, his films look absolutely stunning, even Sucker Punch, the only Snyder film I don't like, was a marvel to look at. I still rewatch those action scenes on Youtube because they are so well done.

I will always remember watching Man of Steel on the big screen for the first time being so exhilarated by the action scenes because I had never seen action like that before in terms of the way characters were moving fighting, it felt like an anime come to life. Now, if you're not into anime, which Snyder is clearly influenced by, I could easily see it not being your cup of tea.

 

[Consona]

II will always remember watching Man of Steel on the big screen for the first time being so exhilarated by the action scenes because I had never seen action like that before in terms of the way characters were moving fighting, it felt like an anime come to life. Now, if you're not into anime, which Snyder is clearly influenced by, I could easily see it not being your cup of tea.

Really? Anime? I would not say his fight are anime-like. They feel powerful and dynamic and visceral, not over-exaggerated and overdone to rather silly extents. They are epic but not in anime sense, IMO. They are more weigthy and grounded.


Anyway, his action scenes visuals are the best, IMO. His Superman vs The World Engine is just pure greatness.

Or this Superman vs Doomsday scene, it's like an impressionistic painting. I haven't seen anything like that in any CBM! Just incredible. I love this shot so much.

https://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/O_GB0660_showreel_stills_3_v1.1004.jpg?ff134a

 

[Rowsdower!]

See, I think most of the stuff with Doomsday is just embarrassingly bad. The CGI used to render Doomsday was on par with the Stephen Sommers Mummy films. People joke that he looked like a cross between a cave troll from LOTR and a Ninja Turtle. I'd disagree because he managed to look worse than both, even though The Fellowship of the Ring came out in 2001.

And I don't think the "you can't blame Snyder for bad CGI because he doesn't do visual effects" argument works when 90% of the movie is filmed in front of a green screen. Snyder's fans always talk about how great he is visually but when you say, "I don't like his visuals" they start blaming other people for his shortcomings.

 

[Mandon Knight]

The dependency 'angle' on CGI to cover all bases these days is 'everywhere', as tech becomes more accessible and cheaper, and pressure on studio for quicker release dates leads to taking an easier way out as such. The days of CGI adding to practical SFX work seem to have gone, sadly.

It should be, in my view, a polish or to design something unobtainable with practical FX rather than a substitute for practical effects at all costs.

 

[Batmannerism]

The problem with trying to literally adapt comic book panels is that film is not a great medium to try and replicate it. In comic books the imagery plays a massive part in the experience, you as the reader can choose to marvel at the imagery first, or plough through the story first, you can go through the book on your own time. In film the story and the imagery have to work in tandem without the benefit of giving the viewer the ability to watch at their own pace. That's why a framed image of Superman hovering over a disaster gives a different response to footage of Superman doing the same thing. With the frame your mind can accept that being a snippet of time before he goes to save the people, with 5-6 seconds of footage your mind says 'Why the f*** are you just floating there? Save them!'

Totally agree on the last point, huge opportunity wasted.

 

[FunkMiller]

The shadow of Nolan hangs heavy on this thread.

 

[King23DC]

He has his moments of greatness. But I prefer the more grounded, visceral and real feel. On location. More epic. Less green screen, and video game visuals. That's why I prefer the look of Man of Steel compared to the more artificial look of BvS.

 

[TheVileOne]

For me, he peaked with 300.

From what I've seen of Justice League, I'm just generally put off by how dark and visually ugly it looks.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I'm also surprised how ugly Justice League looks. 12 years old Batman film DESTROYS it visually. And it's Justice League...

 

[Boom]

His style just isn't for me. I watched the first trailer for the first live-action Justice League movie ever made and I barely cared. It looks ugly.

I'm hoping JL is his last film in the DCEU. Time to move on.

 

[Kev4000]

It Looks really bad. Sorry.

 

[Kane52630]

He's got visual flare with zero substance behind them. And it shows more and more when he got to do MoS.
He's more or less like Michael Bay only he loves doing more practical stunts.

 

[Superchan]

He's got visual flare with zero substance behind them. And it shows more and more when he got to do MoS.
He's more or less like Michael Bay only he loves doing more practical stunts.

To me Snyder is a Michael Bay who thinks he's better than a Michael Bay. The guy sees himself making art but in reality it's more like he's making very expensive videogame cutaway scenes, which is sad because he showed alot of potential in his earlier efforts like Dawn of the dead.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Visuals are a strong point for him. I wasn't fond of Wonder Woman's reluctance to get involved in the world-threatening fray, nor was I happy with Doomsday's origin. However, those issues were forgotten when I was watching the explosive battle. It's possible to partially erase some writing mistakes with powerful action scenes.

 

[All-Father]

Really? Anime? I would not say his fight are anime-like. They feel powerful and dynamic and visceral, not over-exaggerated and overdone to rather silly extents. They are epic but not in anime sense, IMO. They are more weigthy and grounded.


Anyway, his action scenes visuals are the best, IMO. His Superman vs The World Engine is just pure greatness.

Or this Superman vs Doomsday scene, it's like an impressionistic painting. I haven't seen anything like that in any CBM! Just incredible. I love this shot so much.

https://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/O_GB0660_showreel_stills_3_v1.1004.jpg?ff134a

A nice showing of how bad his visual are.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

Really? Anime? I would not say his fight are anime-like. They feel powerful and dynamic and visceral, not over-exaggerated and overdone to rather silly extents. They are epic but not in anime sense, IMO. They are more weigthy and grounded.


Anyway, his action scenes visuals are the best, IMO. His Superman vs The World Engine is just pure greatness.

Or this Superman vs Doomsday scene, it's like an impressionistic painting. I haven't seen anything like that in any CBM! Just incredible. I love this shot so much.

https://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/O_GB0660_showreel_stills_3_v1.1004.jpg?ff134a

Although, there's an aspect of his visuals that I can't stand. Let's use the Doomsday fight as an example again. When all the destruction happens, everything sort of...blends. And one reason for that is, it's all one colour. You can't tell apart what is a building (or used to be), a car, a street lamp etc. Let's put it this way - it looks like they're fighting in a massive pile of garbage.

 

[idiot09]

Although, there's an aspect of his visuals that I can't stand. Let's use the Doomsday fight as an example again. When all the destruction happens, everything sort of...blends. And one reason for that is, it's all one colour. You can't tell apart what is a building (or used to be), a car, a street lamp etc. Let's put it this way - it looks like they're fighting in a massive pile of garbage.

That was the only part I had some problems with .

The rest..amazing. And I'm including 300, MOS and Watchmen. The guy is a visual genius.

He changed the action genre and made a huge pop culture impact with 300. Watchmen was his best work from a visual perspective. In Man of Steel he impressed without his trademark stylised approach. BvS was great too, and certain scenes were amazing. JL looks so epic in scope... I think he is the best in the genre right now, visually.

 

[FunkMiller]

That was the only part I had some problems with .

The rest..amazing. And I'm including 300, MOS and Watchmen. The guy is a visual genius.

He changed the action genre and made a huge pop culture impact with 300. Watchmen was his best work from a visual perspective. In Man of Steel he impressed without his trademark stylised approach. BvS was great too, and certain scenes were amazing. JL looks so epic in scope... I think he is the best in the genre right now, visually.

Idiot09 - sensible question here: do you ever feel that Snyder does sometimes sacrifice narrative in favour of visuals? Take for instance, JMC's example above of hovering Superman.

I entirely agree with you that Snyder has a flair for visual representation that marks him out - it's his USP. My frustration is that is comes at the expense of story telling, which is arguably the more important aspect of film making.

I know you love his work, but I'm just wondering if you ever feel that some criticism may be occasionally warranted when it comes to his handling of story and character? That his desire for the perfect 'moment' crowds out decent storytelling.

I think I'm probably as big a Nolan fan as you are a fan of Snyder, but I can happily concede that he has his flaws, not least of which occur in the TDK trilogy, especially the last movie.

 

[idiot09]

Idiot09 - sensible question here: do you ever feel that Snyder does sometimes sacrifice narrative in favour of visuals? Take for instance, JMC's example above of hovering Superman.

I entirely agree with you that Snyder has a flair for visual representation that marks him out - it's his USP. My frustration is that is comes at the expense of story telling, which is arguably the more important aspect of film making.

I know you love his work, but I'm just wondering if you ever feel that some criticism may be occasionally warranted when it comes to his handling of story and character? That his desire for the perfect 'moment' crowds out decent storytelling.

I think I'm probably as big a Nolan fan as you are a fan of Snyder, but I can happily concede that he has his flaws, not least of which occur in the TDK trilogy, especially the last movie.

Oh btw, I am big fan of Nolan too, and have been called a "nolanite" sometimes on reddit. People are quick to put labels.

1)I think Snyder tries to further his narrative with his visuals. The hovering Superman example, is actually a good one for my point. We are supposed to see it from the world's perspective, so for some he is a god, that people are raying to, a messianic figure up in the sky. Obviously the next line is "he is not a devil or a jesus character, maybe he is just a guy trying to do the right thing". Maybe we just have different interpretations on the scene, but I'll tell you this. Ive seen many people interpret that scene the way I saw it, and many who didnt.

2)I dont agree on the moments thing. The whole argument in the video was made for the theatrical cut, and the UC addresses a lot of that. And I didnt see those problems in Watchmen or MOS either. So agree to disagree on that one. I'm not trying to get into an argument here, its just what I think.

3) Do I think he is the best director of all time with no flaws? ofcourse not. I think he is a flawed director, who has a very specific point of view, a very specific and particular vision of life and these characters, and that doesnt jive well with some people . It speaks to me, and I know it speaks to a lot of people. I know he has his limitations and flaws as a director, but very few directors are perfect. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I think his weakness is able to reach to a wider audience, and I sometimes feel his movies need to have more character fleshing moments(but then I heard about the whole SP thing. Idk if you know this but originally Snyder intended SP to be more of a character study and it delved more into its themes, but WB told him to make it PG-13 and add a lot of action scenes. It was from a Forbes article I think, and Silverman eved admitted ****ing up on that one. But yeah I think thats a area he can improve on).

But I think this thread was just about his visuals, which I must say, I'm a big fan.

 

[FunkMiller]

Oh btw, I am big fan of Nolan too, and have been called a "nolanite" sometimes on reddit. People are quick to put labels.

1)I think Snyder tries to further his narrative with his visuals. The hovering Superman example, is actually a good one for my point. We are supposed to see it from the world's perspective, so for some he is a god, that people are raying to, a messianic figure up in the sky. Obviously the next line is "he is not a devil or a jesus character, maybe he is just a guy trying to do the right thing". Maybe we just have different interpretations on the scene, but I'll tell you this. Ive seen many people interpret that scene the way I saw it, and many who didnt.

2)I dont agree on the moments thing. The whole argument in the video was made for the theatrical cut, and the UC addresses a lot of that. And I didnt see those problems in Watchmen or MOS either. So agree to disagree on that one. I'm not trying to get into an argument here, its just what I think.

3) Do I think he is the best director of all time with no flaws? ofcourse not. I think he is a flawed director, who has a very specific point of view, a very specific and particular vision of life and these characters, and that doesnt jive well with some people . It speaks to me, and I know it speaks to a lot of people. I know he has his limitations and flaws as a director, but very few directors are perfect. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I think his weakness is able to reach to a wider audience, and I sometimes feel his movies need to have more character fleshing moments(but then I heard about the whole SP thing. Idk if you know this but originally Snyder intended SP to be more of a character study and it delved more into its themes, but WB told him to make it PG-13 and add a lot of action scenes. It was from a Forbes article I think, and Silverman eved admitted ****ing up on that one. But yeah I think thats a area he can improve on).

But I think this thread was just about his visuals, which I must say, I'm a big fan.

Yep. All more than fair enough I totally understand your perspective, even if I don't agree with it.

I think - and i'm spitballing here - that maybe Snyder is a director who enjoys the symbolic, and it's how the audience member reacts to that symbolism that determines how they feel about his story telling. For some, the symbolism is powerful and an an excellent way to push a narrative forward - for others, the symbolic gets in the way of the story, rather than contributing to it. Neither position is any less or more valid than the either. It's just a matter of personal taste.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yep. All more than fair enough I totally understand your perspective, even if I don't agree with it.

I think - and i'm spitballing here - that maybe Snyder is a director who enjoys the symbolic, and it's how the audience member reacts to that symbolism that determines how they feel about his story telling. For some, the symbolism is powerful and an an excellent way to push a narrative forward - for others, the symbolic gets in the way of the story, rather than contributing to it. Neither position is any less or more valid than the either. It's just a matter of personal taste.

This is a great post, and probably the best example i have seen how people interpret his movies on this board. It's also pleasant to see it written by someone who ISNT a fan of Snyder.

I like Snyder personally, and i like how he uses visuals to tell parts of his story. I feel this rewards repeat viewings of his movies as you don't always notice the symbolism first time, certainly not in every scene.

At the same time i think this is a problem for people who don't like his style, most people, when they dislike a movie, are reluctant at the very least to watch it again. And i somewhat get the point people make that you shouldn't have to watch a movie multiple times to like it. But for me they are the movies i like best, i have grown to love many movies from re-watches when i only liked them first time. Sometimes i have done a total 180 on movies o disliked when watching them again. I find re-watching certain movies really rewarding. And i always find that with Snyder's movies.

However, i perfectly get if other people don't. I said it before BvS came out, he is a niche director, and so probably not the best pick for a big franchise universe, but i personally have loved his involvement so far.