BvS The Zack Snyder Validation Thread (big rant)

[I Am The Knight]

"This is madness" was a horrible line and delivery from Crowe. THIS IS SPARTA! THIS IS MADNESS!! Ugh.

I still think the delivery was normal. Watch the scene again. And the line was in Superman: The Movie. Brando Jor-El says "this is madness" to the council in that film. I don't think people ever complained 'bout dat

"Concentrate on the main doors", dialogue is OK but the delivery was b-movie. And im saying that as a huge Shannon fan. He wasn't able to loosen up throughout the film. And yet i still thought he was one of the highlights.

Delivery was fine, dude. I don't understand how the delivery was "b-movie". You mean it was like hammy or something?

Something like "release the world engine!" Is a kinda B-movie line I will say.

"HERESY!" Was pretty funny though

 

[DA_Champion]

Shannon was deliberately tense, his planet was being destroyed.

 

[DA_Champion]

I still think the delivery was normal. Watch the scene again. And the line was in Superman: The Movie. Brando Jor-El says "this is madness" to the council in that film. I don't think people ever complained 'bout dat



Delivery was fine, dude. I don't understand how the delivery was "b-movie". You mean it was like hammy or something?

Something like "release the world engine!" Is a kinda B-movie line I will say.

"HERESY!" Was pretty funny though

This isn't madness ...

THIS IS SPARTA !!!!!!!!

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

I still don't get what was wrong with World Engine.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

 

[manofsteel4life]

I still don't get what was wrong with World Engine.

Me neither...there's a lot of lines that I didn't find anything wrong with till I saw them pop up in here...smh

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I must be the only one who enjoyed the ott saturday morning cartoon dialogue.

"You're a monster Zod. And I'm gonna stop you!"

 

[DA_Champion]

I must be the only one who enjoyed the ott saturday morning cartoon dialogue.

"You're a monster Zod. And I'm gonna stop you!"

Bane: Have you come to die with your city?
Batman: No, I'm here to stop you.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

love it

I'll take that over Whedon's "wit" anytime.

 

[Guts]

I still don't get what was wrong with World Engine.

Me neither...there's a lot of lines that I didn't find anything wrong with till I saw them pop up in here...smh

I mentioned my thoughts on this over in the All things thread.

I was okay with "World Engine". It's a sci fi movie so it was probably going to have some made up names and phrases. Just like how in Star Wars there are things like Star Destroyer, Count Dooku, and General Grievous.

It was definitely weird how after Hamilton figures out that Zod is terraforming the planet, Carrie Farris responds with "what's that?". Didn't you see the movie aliens?

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

I thought the lines for Jonathan Kent and Jor-El when they counseled Clark were fantastic.

The only line I really hated in the movie was "It's supposed to go all the way in!"

 

[Guts]

I thought the lines for Jonathan Kent and Jor-El when they counseled Clark were fantastic.

The only line I really hated in the movie was "It's supposed to go all the way in!"

I think it may have already been discussed how Goyer is not very good at subtlety.

 

[shauner111]

I thought the lines for Jonathan Kent and Jor-El when they counseled Clark were fantastic.

The only line I really hated in the movie was "It's supposed to go all the way in!"

Hah!

Yeah the dialogue was good with Jor-El/Jonathan-Clark. Too bad the teenager playing young Clark totally sucked in the role. I didnt feel anything for the kid because of it.

I still think the delivery was normal. Watch the scene again. And the line was in Superman: The Movie. Brando Jor-El says "this is madness" to the council in that film. I don't think people ever complained 'bout dat



Delivery was fine, dude. I don't understand how the delivery was "b-movie". You mean it was like hammy or something?

Something like "release the world engine!" Is a kinda B-movie line I will say.

"HERESY!" Was pretty funny though

I watched it yesterday

That's what i mean. It was in a goofy 1978 Superman movie, why does it need to be in here? Of course im gonna get **** now that ive called the Donner movie "goofy".

Heresy! I forgot about that one. That's another one. But that's a funny line to me because of Shannon's face. Like when he says I WILL FIND HIM!!! Im at least entertained by that stuff.

Another dumb ass Goyer line was "What if i need to tinkle?". Poor Amy Adams. Is she a 10 year old Goyer? This is the best stuff he could come up with lol. Now that i think of it, Michael Shannon and Amy Adams had to endure the worst dialogue out of the whole crew and had to make it sound believable.

 

[matt47]

Bane: Have you come to die with your city?
Batman: No, I'm here to stop you.

That line...
I literally block my ears whenever he says that line.

 

[sf2]

the worst dialogue??? exaggerated to the max.

 

[The Question]

You have stated here perfectly what I have been saying for years now.
Just because a movie is more serious and dour does not mean it is automatically superior to a film with a more light-hearted, humorous approach. That's why I think MoS failed; it took itself to seriously when it really did not have reason to. It was "dark" for the sake of dark, almost as if trying to replicate the success of Nolan's Batman films. They wanted Man of steel to be cut from the same cloth as TDKT, but that approach just does not work for Superman IMO.

I half agree with this.

I honestly think that a darker approach can work for Superman.

But the thing is, and this is key, the reason the dark and gritty approach worked for The Dark Knight is that The Dark Knight had the substance to back it up. It was a dark and mature film not because it was broody and took itself seriously and had a grimy color pallet, but because it dealt with dark and mature themes in a dark and mature way.

The problem with Man of Steel, in my opinion, isn't that being serious and dour doesn't fit on Superman. It's that the seriousness and dourness of Man of Steel is "achieved" entire by a washed out color pallet, a broody protagonist, and lots of people dying, mostly nameless characters who die off screen. All of it's "maturity" comes entirely from aesthetics and from stock, cliche "dramatic" scenes. It doesn't dramatize or actually explore any of it's "adult" themes, it simply tells you that it has them.

The perfect example of this is General Zod, who's "complex" and "realistic" and "morally ambiguous" backstory and motivations are revealed entirely through an exposition dump he essentially gives directly to the audience at the end of the third act, and is not actually dramatized at any point throughout the film.

And that's pretty juvenile.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

we've had a child, zod. A boy child.

 

[The Question]

we've had a child, zod. A boy child.

… and?

 

[I Am The Knight]

Heresy?

 

[I Am The Knight]

I watched it yesterday

That's what i mean. It was in a goofy 1978 Superman movie, why does it need to be in here? Of course im gonna get **** now that ive called the Donner movie "goofy".

Well Goyer lifted a bunch of stuff from those Donner movies, funny because they said they approached the film as if no Superman films existed before.

Heresy! I forgot about that one. That's another one. But that's a funny line to me because of Shannon's face. Like when he says I WILL FIND HIM!!! Im at least entertained by that stuff.

Another dumb ass Goyer line was "What if i need to tinkle?". Poor Amy Adams. Is she a 10 year old Goyer? This is the best stuff he could come up with lol. Now that i think of it, Michael Shannon and Amy Adams had to endure the worst dialogue out of the whole crew and had to make it sound believable.

They also had to endure being in that fan event thing where Kevin Smith was gushing about the movie.

 

[NosfeRomas]

The B-movie lines never bothered me in MoS. Mainly because i believe that's what Snyder and Goyer wanted to make, a 50s pulp sci fi.

 

[Wise]

we've had a child, zod. A boy child.

I liked that line so much I made it my signature.

 

[zryson]

There's plenty of times when im watching MOS and acting legends like Crowe or Shannon are just not delivering. And it's probably due to the situation (having to wear pyjamas to try to look threatening) or having to deliver bad dialogue, trying to make it sound believable. Then you have the acting from the teenager who played Clark, who i thought was pretty bad. Even Diane Lane had a couple of moments where im like good God..

The acting in MOS was pretty weak. And I agree some of the dialogue was just plain bad. Its sad in so many ways.

 

[matt47]

*Shivers* This thread hurts me in the nad area.

 

[shauner111]

I half agree with this.

I honestly think that a darker approach can work for Superman.

But the thing is, and this is key, the reason the dark and gritty approach worked for The Dark Knight is that The Dark Knight had the substance to back it up. It was a dark and mature film not because it was broody and took itself seriously and had a grimy color pallet, but because it dealt with dark and mature themes in a dark and mature way.

The problem with Man of Steel, in my opinion, isn't that being serious and dour doesn't fit on Superman. It's that the seriousness and dourness of Man of Steel is "achieved" entire by a washed out color pallet, a broody protagonist, and lots of people dying, mostly nameless characters who die off screen. All of it's "maturity" comes entirely from aesthetics and from stock, cliche "dramatic" scenes. It doesn't dramatize or actually explore any of it's "adult" themes, it simply tells you that it has them.

The perfect example of this is General Zod, who's "complex" and "realistic" and "morally ambiguous" backstory and motivations are revealed entirely through an exposition dump he essentially gives directly to the audience at the end of the third act, and is not actually dramatized at any point throughout the film.

And that's pretty juvenile.

Great post.

Well Goyer lifted a bunch of stuff from those Donner movies, funny because they said they approached the film as if no Superman films existed before.

I agree. MOS is like a half remake of Superman: The Movie and the other half is a modern twist.

The acting in MOS was pretty weak. And I agree some of the dialogue was just plain bad. Its sad in so many ways.

I think a lot of the acting is weak or solid. But nothing more. It's hit and miss, even from the big players.

I remember a friend of a friend commented on MOS when it first came out. I heard him say to my buddy that he felt the acting was pretty bad throughout the movie.

Everytime i watch it now, i feel like none of the cast are really going for it. They're not being pushed by the material or director. They're just doing their job. And because so many of them are legends, you get a lot of solid moments just because they're such professionals. But they're not exactly lighting things on fire here. This is what i fear with Jesse Eisenberg, Ben Affleck and Jeremy Irons.