BvS The Zack Snyder Validation Thread (big rant)

[zryson]

Great post.

I agree. MOS is like a half remake of Superman: The Movie and the other half is a modern twist.

I think a lot of the acting is weak or solid. But nothing more. It's hit and miss, even from the big players.

I remember a friend of a friend commented on MOS when it first came out. I heard him say to my buddy that he felt the acting was pretty bad throughout the movie.

Everytime i watch it now, i feel like none of the cast are really going for it. They're not being pushed by the material or director. They're just doing their job. And because so many of them are legends, you get a lot of solid moments just because they're such professionals. But they're not exactly lighting things on fire here. This is what i fear with Jesse Eisenberg, Ben Affleck and Jeremy Irons.

The irony of MOS was that you had all that talent, as I commented to several friends yet Snyder and Co. didnt really know what to do with the actors. And so I agree with your post shauner111.

 

[Travesty]

So which one is the dread thread and which one is the more positive thread?

 

[shauner111]

The irony of MOS was that you had all that talent, as I commented to several friends yet Snyder and Co. didnt really know what to do with the actors. And so I agree with your post shauner111.

Definitely. Or they just had this script and weren't changing it, yet they needed to ground what they had by surrounding Cavill with talent like Costner, Lane, Shannon, Adams, Fishburn and Crowe. But the material just wasn't super duper original or meaty for them as actors. I mean Crowe took the role for his kids and Amy did because she always dreamed of playing Lois. It's not exactly about the script as a main motivation now is it..

I mean look at Gadot's casting. She obviously has beautiful presence and convinced them in the audition. But just the fact that they were looking at a model with a couple of small fluffy blockbuster movies on her resume, to audition for the iconic role of Wonder Woman. That tells me it was purely a visual thing, a presence, an accent, a look that they were after. Even before she steps into the room to be auditioned, the fact that they had her come in, means the focus wasn't on acting, depth. It's "Diana needs to be a beautiful badass, let's see who gives off that impression". Maybe Gal surprised them, i cant say, i wasnt there. But come on it's quite obvious.

Same with Affleck. Im not trying to bash all these actors because they could knock it out of the park and really bring it. But what was the motivation behind Affleck? They were thinking Ben can direct a movie, Ben is in his 40s and looks like Bruce Wayne with that height, hair and jaw. They certainly weren't going to audition him to see what his voice would be like under the cowl or how he's going to act. Money and physique were the motivation.

That would be like handing Green Lantern over to Bradley Cooper because he's a big draw and he looks like he could nail Hal Jordans look and act. Then they film the movie and he can't stop doing that batvoice (which is what made him lose his spot in auditions).

 

[zryson]

Definitely. Or they just had this script and weren't changing it, yet they needed to ground what they had by surrounding Cavill with talent like Costner, Lane, Shannon, Adams, Fishburn and Crowe. But the material just wasn't super duper original or meaty for them as actors. I mean Crowe took the role for his kids and Amy did because she always dreamed of playing Lois. It's not exactly about the script as a main motivation now is it..

I mean look at Gadot's casting. She obviously has beautiful presence and convinced them in the audition. But just the fact that they were looking at a model with a couple of small fluffy blockbuster movies on her resume, to audition for the iconic role of Wonder Woman. That tells me it was purely a visual thing, a presence, an accent, a look that they were after. Even before she steps into the room to be auditioned, the fact that they had her come in, means the focus wasn't on acting, depth. It's "Diana needs to be a beautiful badass, let's see who gives off that impression". Maybe Gal surprised them, i cant say, i wasnt there. But come on it's quite obvious.

Same with Affleck. Im not trying to bash all these actors because they could knock it out of the park and really bring it. But what was the motivation behind Affleck? They were thinking Ben can direct a movie, Ben is in his 40s and looks like Bruce Wayne with that height, hair and jaw. They certainly weren't going to audition him to see what his voice would be like under the cowl or how he's going to act. Money and physique were the motivation.

That would be like handing Green Lantern over to Bradley Cooper because he's a big draw and he looks like he could nail Hal Jordans look and act. Then they film the movie and he can't stop doing that batvoice (which is what made him lose his spot in auditions).

Again I agree with many of your points shauner111. I think all too often studios cast photogenic actors but they dont actually cast actors who are rivetting as actors on screen. And really unless you can hold somebody's attention with what you are doing on screen its a slippery slope indeed. So ultimately its up to the studio Warner Bros to convince audiences they do know what they are doing and have the right approach but like most I have doubts they know what they are doing and are just hoping to cash in on the trend The Avengers created with studios rushing to try and replicate the same level of success.

 

[Flint Marko]

I half agree with this.

I honestly think that a darker approach can work for Superman.

But the thing is, and this is key, the reason the dark and gritty approach worked for The Dark Knight is that The Dark Knight had the substance to back it up. It was a dark and mature film not because it was broody and took itself seriously and had a grimy color pallet, but because it dealt with dark and mature themes in a dark and mature way.

The problem with Man of Steel, in my opinion, isn't that being serious and dour doesn't fit on Superman. It's that the seriousness and dourness of Man of Steel is "achieved" entire by a washed out color pallet, a broody protagonist, and lots of people dying, mostly nameless characters who die off screen. All of it's "maturity" comes entirely from aesthetics and from stock, cliche "dramatic" scenes. It doesn't dramatize or actually explore any of it's "adult" themes, it simply tells you that it has them.

The perfect example of this is General Zod, who's "complex" and "realistic" and "morally ambiguous" backstory and motivations are revealed entirely through an exposition dump he essentially gives directly to the audience at the end of the third act, and is not actually dramatized at any point throughout the film.

And that's pretty juvenile.

Good post. I guess the only thing we really don't agree on is whether or not a dark tone could work for Superman; I'd say more times than not it isn't the ideal approach, but I guess I can't really speak in absolutes here.
However I still stand by the fact that it was wrong for his origin movie, and that they were trying to mimic Nolan's success with his batfilms which was extremely wrongheaded and one of the films biggest failures.

 

[Travesty]

However I still stand by the fact that it was wrong for his origin movie, and that they were trying to mimic Nolan's success with his batfilms which was extremely wrongheaded and one of the films biggest failures.

Well, what do you expect from a script by Goyer and Nolan?

 

[hafizbat]

Bane: Have you come to die with your city?
Batman: No, I'm here to stop you.

I honestly think the criticism of this exchange is way overblown. It's not nearly as bad as the dialogue in MoS, and it sounds like something Batman would say.

I haven't seen anyone come up with a better response anyway, without sounding bloated and out of place. Silence would've been better, but what he said wasn't that bad.

 

[shauner111]

Again I agree with many of your points shauner111. I think all too often studios cast photogenic actors but they dont actually cast actors who are rivetting as actors on screen. And really unless you can hold somebody's attention with what you are doing on screen its a slippery slope indeed. So ultimately its up to the studio Warner Bros to convince audiences they do know what they are doing and have the right approach but like most I have doubts they know what they are doing and are just hoping to cash in on the trend The Avengers created with studios rushing to try and replicate the same level of success.

Indeed. And that's the problem with comic book movies for the most part, and why they get a bad rep. Fans often wonder why? Well that's your reason. Obviously some are just poorly written and that's a different problem. But even some of the best comic book movies, whether they have good actors on board or not, it's about the performance and delivery. It's usually not the most riveting thing to see. Sure most of them are successful and make ****loads of money but they still get a bad reputation due to weak performances and/or predictable plot. That's where the "dumb fun" gets thrown around.

You said it perfect zryson. They cast the photogenic actor or the top draw. Nuance and character is usually thrown out the window. Mamoa and Gadot for Aquaman and Wonder Woman, need i say more? All ive ever seen from Mamoa besides bad acting is him doing well at looking like a menacing warrior and yelling at people. But of course the motivation behind that casting for Zack is probably "Fans need to see Aquaman in a different light, as a badass".

As for cashing in on the Avengers trend. Yeah, ive been thinking about that recently, and im beginning to not give a damn about these upcoming Justice League movies. Im more excited for B v S and a couple of the solo spin-offs. Especially since they're holding off on Darkseid.

 

[Zionite1]

I have to say Gadot, Mamoa,even Affleck look nothing like their comicbook equivalent.Do you forget the fanboy *****ing when they were cast.
Snyder clearly didnt cast them b/c they had "The Look".B/c they do not.

 

[shauner111]

I have to say Gadot, Mamoa,even Affleck look nothing like their comicbook equivalent.Do you forget the fanboy *****ing when they were cast.
Snyder clearly didnt cast them b/c they had "The Look".B/c they do not.

Affleck looks exactly like Bruce Wayne, more than any other actor so far. And look at that chin in the cowl, he's Batman. So what are you talking about?

As for Momoa and Gadot. The look for what they want in the movie. They want a warrior, badass, they got it with Momoa. They want a beautiful woman who is exotic, with long dark hair, they got it with Gal.

 

[Zionite1]

Affleck looks exactly like Bruce Wayne, more than any other actor so far. And look at that chin in the cowl, he's Batman. So what are you talking about?

As for Momoa and Gadot. The look for what they want in the movie. They want a warrior, badass, they got it with Momoa. They want a beautiful woman who is exotic, with long dark hair, they got it with Gal.

He looks nothing as Bruce wayne.Batman he's perfect.thats my point.Saying that they are casting for looks is ignorant assumption considering how much the casting is slammed on basis of looks.

 

[shauner111]

Then you're blind.

 

[Zionite1]

Then you're blind.

Agree to disagree then.

 

[I am Batman]

I got to agree with shauner. Aside from the grey in his hair Affleck looks more like Bruce Wayne than any actor yet. I feel like Snyder has yet to fully grow out of his fanboyism. He's still casting people and filming things to either look comic accurate or look cool.

 

[kalhawj]

He looks nothing as Bruce wayne.Batman he's perfect.thats my point.Saying that they are casting for looks is ignorant assumption considering how much the casting is slammed on basis of looks.

I normally don't comment much but this statement here I have to say something...

If you know anything Ben is a great actor an Oscar level. Also do you remember when the fanboy went crazy when Heath was case as Joker... we all know how that turn out... please restrain yourself for judging until you actually seen the movie... IMO Ben is the best looking Batman and Bruce we have on the big screen. He looks straight from the comic books.

 

[shauner111]

Well i agree with everything you said kalhawj except for Ben being an oscar calibur actor. He's not. He's alright. He is an oscar winning director though.

 

[Fallen Angel]

He did that Ice Bucket challenge today. Anyone get a video of that?

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Then you're blind.

It's laughable that some people don't think he looks like Bruce Wayne. They are blind indeed.

 

[shauner111]

He did that Ice Bucket challenge today. Anyone get a video of that?

It was pretty funny.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

http://vimeo.com/m/103935241

Zack's Ice water bucket challenge.

 

[shauner111]

It's laughable that some people don't think he looks like Bruce Wayne. They are blind indeed.

It's that attitude of "i dont like this casting so im gonna force myself to believe he doesnt look like Bruce Wayne!!!" *pouting with arms crossed*

LOL, he looks a LOT like Bruce Wayne.

 

[Boom]

Affleck doesn't look like Bruce Wayne? Since when?

If he had a higher reputation as an actor, this would have been heralded as the greatest comic book casting of all time. People would be taking to the streets naked and screaming while waving pictures of Zack Snyder frantically above their heads in a deliriously religious fashion. Let's not feign blindness just because one has their doubts about him as an actor.

 

[CGNefarious]

Ben Affleck does not look like Bruce Wayne.

Bruce Wayne looks like Ben Affleck.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Thanks Zack for getting the BvS Superman costume colors correct

 

[BatLobster]

The irony is if Jon Hamm would've been cast, I bet everyone would be going on about how much he resembles comic book Wayne, posting side by sides etc. With Affleck on no one's mind.

Affleck definitely has a good look for the part though.