Zoe Kravitz IS Catwoman

[Fincher]

Regarding high heels, the plausibility of them has literally never been an issue for me. There are movies that are grounded to the point where women performing feats in high heels would be weird, but those aren't the movies that use them, and they're not Batman movies. Overemphasis on practical outfits in Batman is pointless to me.

 

[Sawyer]

That costume was awful. What are they even trying to go with here?

It was clearly a Julie Newmar throwback.

 

[DKDetective]

Regarding high heels, the plausibility of them has literally never been an issue for me. There are movies that are grounded to the point where women performing feats in high heels would be weird, but those aren't the movies that use them, and they're not Batman movies. Overemphasis on practical outfits in Batman is pointless to me.

It's not about being grounded, its about excessive male gaze and objectification of the female body. Rightfully, certain visuals from older comics are no longer acceptable. Even then, over the top bladed stillettos strike me as ridiculous and regressive, when none of Darwyn Cooke, Jim Lee, Tim Sale, nor David Mazzucchelli drew Catwoman with such silly footwear:

 

[Fincher]

It's not about being grounded, its about excessive male gaze and objectification of the female body. Rightfully, certain visuals from older comics are no longer acceptable. Even then, over the top bladed stillettos strike me as ridiculous and regressive, when none of Darwyn Cooke, Jim Lee, Tim Sale, nor David Mazzucchelli drew Catwoman with such silly footwear:

I'm not looking for a discussion on what is or isn't acceptable, but speaking in terms of my own enjoyment, it's never been a problem. It's not just high heels, though. I don't care how practical the batsuit is, either.

 

[Neno_Kos]

Everything looks great and possibly how I expected it to look. Both actress and suit. Except mask. It's clear it's in early stage and will be likely later inspired by Batman. And I am ok with that.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Definitely getting some Year One vibes from Selinas look along with a touch of Darwyn Cooke! Loving it.

 

[Schlosser85]

Definitely getting some Year One vibes from Selinas look along with a touch of Darwyn Cooke! Loving it.

Definitely, especially with the close-cropped hair Zoe seems to have had during filming.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Definitely, especially with the close-cropped hair Zoe seems to have had during filming.

For sure!

 

[TheVileOne]

I feel that the costume is fine neck down. The goggles are a malignant tumor though.

I mean, just why does she need a goggle to "resemble" cat ears? She exists in a world of jokers and batman. No one would blame her for wearing cat ears or a cowl.

Did anyone call her Catwoman or did she ever refer to herself as Catwoman?

 

[Schlosser85]

Did anyone call her Catwoman or did she ever refer to herself as Catwoman?

In TDKR she’s never referred to as Catwoman, just Selina Kyle. The closest is the newspaper headline about her where she’s nicknamed “The Cat”.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Did anyone call her Catwoman or did she ever refer to herself as Catwoman?

They didn’t. But for what it’s worth, in the script, the parts where she’s in costume, Nolan calls her Catwoman.

 

[TheVileOne]

They didn’t. But for what it’s worth, in the script, the parts where she’s in costume, Nolan calls her Catwoman.

It's kind of like the Batmobile/Tumbler. No one says Batmobile, only ever called the Tumbler in Begins, but when the chase starts, the script calls it the Batmobile.

I don't see what the big deal is. Seems like Selina was doing Catwoman-y stuff for a while, and Bane is called Bane. I liked Nolan's trilogy but sometimes I think they were TOO grounded.

 

[Brother Jack]

I reckon there'd be more of a vocal outrage over this and Riddler's costumes not being "comic booky" enough pre-Nolan. Like it or not, TDKT normalized more grounded looks for the characters. It's not unusual now to see Catwoman in a ski mask or Joker wearing makeup.

 

[Schlosser85]

It's kind of like the Batmobile/Tumbler. No one says Batmobile, only ever called the Tumbler in Begins, but when the chase starts, the script calls it the Batmobile.

I don't see what the big deal is. Seems like Selina was doing Catwoman-y stuff for a while, and Bane is called Bane. I liked Nolan's trilogy but sometimes I think they were TOO grounded.

In general, I thought Nolan was great, but agree sometimes it got a little too grounded. There's nothing wrong with a cat burglar with a lot of emphasis on her acrobatics to wear cat ears and call herself Catwoman, or for Dr. Crane to dress more like a scarecrow in TDK, especially considering at the end of Begins he seemed to be evolving into a more full-fledged version of the character (even "corrected" Rachel when she called him Crane and said he was Scarecrow), yet in TDK he's again just wearing a suit and a bag over his head and actually acts less crazy and a lot more lucid than he did at the end of Begins, and in TDKR he seems to have abandoned the scarecrow motif altogether.

Also JGL should have just been at least some version of Dick Grayson and a proto-Robin instead of just a cop who we find out in the end is literally named Robin.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I reckon there'd be more of a vocal outrage over this and Riddler's costumes not being "comic booky" enough pre-Nolan. Like it or not, TDKT normalized more grounded looks for the characters. It's not unusual now to see Catwoman in a ski mask or Joker wearing makeup.

My only thing is with these writers/directors, is that they don't go for a compromise between comic booky and grounded reality. I mean this is a franchise where a grown man goes around a city dressed like a bat with pointy ears, so I don't see the issue with his villains walking around with bright green suits or catsuits with hi-tech goggles.

You can have all that flair and the intensity if you have a good script and good actors to sell it.

 

[Schlosser85]

My only thing is with these writers/directors, is that they don't go for a compromise between comic booky and grounded reality. I mean this is a franchise where a grown man goes around a city dressed like a bat with pointy ears, so I don't see the issue with his villains walking around with bright green suits or catsuits with hi-tech goggles.

You can have all that flair and the intensity if you have a good script and good actors to sell it.

There's even varying degrees within having more colorful villains with more comic-accurate costumes. Asking for a man who starts referring to himself as Scarecrow instead of his own name to dress more like a scarecrow doesn't mean he needs to be in a full-blown scarecrow Halloween costume swinging a scythe around.

 

[Schlosser85]

I think it's Nolan's half-measures that are sort of annoying. Like, the half-hearted homage of having Selina's goggles look like cat ears when she pushes them up on her cowl......why can't she just have cat ears?

 

[weezerspider]

Eh, I disagree. I don’t think Nolan’s films are grounded at all. As he said himself, they are James Bond films. Like James Bond films, the aesthetic is purposefully meant to look like our world, but the movies themselves are pulpy genre films that hold very little real world “grounded” logic. Ras Al Ghul gasses the slums of a city with magical fear has. Joker is a boogeyman who appears wherever the script needs him to. Bane holds the largest city in the world hostage with an atomic bomb and traps the whole police force underground...they are all campy B-movies with A+ execution. I say that as a good thing. They are James Bond movies. Pulpy goofy storylines with crazy out of this world gadgets that’s aesthetically made to look like our world. I’d argue the aesthetic choices, like James Bond, aren’t made to be more realistic, but made because they think that’s cooler. Realistic looking cars and gadgets and suit porn. You can look like Bruce Wayne/James Bond and drive the same car. That’s the point.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think it's Nolan's half-measures that are sort of annoying. Like, the half-hearted homage of having Selina's goggles look like cat ears when she pushes them up on her cowl......why can't she just have cat ears?

I still think giving John Blake's middle name being you know what was one of the stupidest cinematic copouts ever, so much so that I'm still befuddled why Nolan put it on the final cut of his movie. I found it patronizing and obnoxious.

 

[TheVileOne]

Eh, I disagree. I don’t think Nolan’s films are grounded at all. As he said himself, they are James Bond films. Like James Bond films, the aesthetic is purposefully meant to look like our world, but the movies themselves are pulpy genre films that hold very little real world “grounded” logic. Ras Al Ghul gasses the slums of a city with magical fear has. Joker is a boogeyman who appears wherever the script needs him to. Bane holds the largest city in the world hostage with an atomic bomb and traps the whole police force underground...they are all campy B-movies with A+ execution. I say that as a good thing. They are James Bond movies. Pulpy goofy storylines with crazy out of this world gadgets that’s aesthetically made to look like our world. I’d argue the aesthetic choices, like James Bond, aren’t made to be more realistic, but made because they think that’s cooler. Realistic looking cars and gadgets and suit porn. You can look like Bruce Wayne/James Bond and drive the same car. That’s the point.

I mean in James Bond movies characters have codenames and stuff that they actively use.

 

[Schlosser85]

I still think giving John Blake's middle name being you know what was one of the stupidest cinematic copouts ever, so much so that I'm still befuddled why Nolan put it on the final cut of his movie. I found it patronizing and obnoxious.

I'm anal, so I just have to point out that Robin was his first name. He introduces himself to the woman handling Bruce's will as "Blake, John", then when she doesn't find anything he says "try my legal name". So I think his name was Robin John Blake.

 

[weezerspider]

I mean in James Bond movies characters have codenames and stuff that they actively use.

So the movie magically gets better if someone utters the word Catwoman? You realize she doesn’t call him Batman once, either, right? Perhaps there was never a need for him to say “Catwoman” in the scenes they shared. The only other character she actually talks to in the costume is Daggett for one scene and he doesn’t even call her Selina in the scene even though it’s clear he knows her.

How often do you call your friends by name? I don’t call them by name often at all. I go “hey what’s up”, not “hey what’s up John”. Batman and Catwoman logically aren’t going to sit around going “Batman, what’s up”. “Catwoman, what’s up”. I don’t think they were actively avoiding calling her Catwoman, they just weren’t going to awkwardly shoe-horn it in and the specific story they told never required a big name reveal. Same can be said for Two-Face who held that persona for all of 10 minutes of screen time. Batman, Bane, Scarecrow and Joker are all called by name in the trilogy. It just wasn’t needed.

As far as the Robin thing, the whole idea is Batman becomes exactly what Bruce sets out to achieve in Begins: more than a man. So, it’s going to end with Blake taking up the mantle as Batman. The Robin name is just a little nod. If he was called Robin from the start, that would potentially spoil(or at least hint) at the end of the film.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah, the Robin John Blake thing was dumb. At the very least, just name him Dick Grayson (or Robin Dick Grayson if you had to).

 

[Wheels]

I love the Nolan films but there is this sense that Batman's world as it exists is not worthy because there's not enough verisimilitude for certain stiffs out there I suppose.

Off topic but I'm not sure how "I'm Vengeance". Is more silly (and amazing) than endless monologues telling you the symbolism behind things and characters speachafying. all day long, which is comics writing. And yet Nolan's diatribes about fear and chaos don't feel like a comic? Batman Begins in particular has the most comic book style dialogue of any film ever.

Yet today I heard someone say "I'm Vengeance" belongs in a comic not a film. Go figure.

 

[TheVileOne]

So the movie magically gets better if someone utters the word Catwoman? You realize she doesn’t call him Batman once, either, right? Perhaps there was never a need for him to say “Catwoman” in the scenes they shared. The only other character she actually talks to in the costume is Daggett for one scene and he doesn’t even call her Selina in the scene even though it’s clear he knows her.

How often do you call your friends by name? I don’t call them by name often at all. I go “hey what’s up”, not “hey what’s up John”. Batman and Catwoman logically aren’t going to sit around going “Batman, what’s up”. “Catwoman, what’s up”. I don’t think they were actively avoiding calling her Catwoman, they just weren’t going to awkwardly shoe-horn it in and the specific story they told never required a big name reveal. Same can be said for Two-Face who held that persona for all of 10 minutes of screen time. Batman, Bane, Scarecrow and Joker are all called by name in the trilogy. It just wasn’t needed.

As far as the Robin thing, the whole idea is Batman becomes exactly what Bruce sets out to achieve in Begins: more than a man. So, it’s going to end with Blake taking up the mantle as Batman. The Robin name is just a little nod. If he was called Robin from the start, that would potentially spoil(or at least hint) at the end of the film.

yes