🥊 The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

[InCali]

Oh God, he faked an injury. He quite. Lomo beat him up and clowned him that badly in half a fight.

He broke his left hand hitting air. The very definition of brittle hands.

Remember the speed advantage Rigo had? Yeah....

The only thing that beats Lomo is weight and age. I was ready to give Rigo his due if he won, but he didn't have a chance.

BTW Lomo coined the "No Mas Chenko" before the fight. The interviewer needed to pull that out of him.

This dude is a major bad ass and may well go down as one of the best ever. Like I said much earlier in this thread, Lomo may deserve to be on the list.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I said he could give him problems, he's a weird boxer. But hey, we'll see down the line if Lomo is what you say he is...

That is not what you said. You said he beat him, and was faster. I said Lomo would beat him easily.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=514571&page=37

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=514571&page=38

 

[Doc Samson]

That is not what you said. You said he beat him, and was faster

Hey, I been wrong before. But unless Spence passed away this morning, this guy is not the best in the world...

 

[InCali]

I was listening to Stephen A and Teddy afterwards. What a bunch of BS (ie staged arguments made to increase fight-hype). Here's what I disagree with....Lomo DOESN'T need to move up. My advice is to stay at the weight you're comfortable at. Don't let your ego get to you and step up against a bigger, stronger fighter. Lomo can do it; don't get me wrong, but it's bad policy. Boxing is a business, but, if you can, walk away from it with your mind and body (semi) intact. Lomo is one of those rare individuals that may be able to do that. It is a brutal business and the people who genuinely care for you, or understand life after boxing, are few and far between.

My advice to Lomo is "Don't listen to these people who tell you to step up. Do what you're comfortable with WRT weight. Let the new generation come to you. You'll have plenty of competition and get out before you get frelled up."

Great exhibition tonight by Lomo. He completely outclassed a guy who was supposed to give him a good fight. As highly as I rated him, I now think he's better than I thought he was.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I was listening to Stephen A and Teddy afterwards. What a bunch of BS (ie staged arguments made to increase fight-hype). Here's what I disagree with....Lomo DOESN'T need to move up. My advice is to stay at the weight you're comfortable at. Don't let your ego get to you and step up against a bigger, stronger fighter. Lomo can do it; don't get me wrong, but it's bad policy. Boxing is a business, but, if you can, walk away from it with your mind and body (semi) intact. Lomo is one of those rare individuals that may be able to do that. It is a brutal business and the people who genuinely care for you, or understand life after boxing, are few and far between.

My advice to Lomo is "Don't listen to these people who tell you to step up. Do what you're comfortable with WRT weight. Let the new generation come to you. You'll have plenty of competition and get out before you get frelled up."

Great exhibition tonight by Lomo. He completely outclassed a guy who was supposed to give him a good fight. As highly as I rated him, I now think he's better than I thought he was.

You have to go up until you lose, and then you suck.

 

[InCali]

Hey, I been wrong before. But unless Spence passed away this morning, this guy is not the best in the world...

A Jr light or super feather doesn't need to prove himself against an outstanding welter. That's a false comparison. Let Spence step up against a guy who outweighs him by 17 pounds. That would be something akin to Spence fighting an outstanding super middle.

I thought early on (2nd fight and after Lomo's only loss) that this guy could possibly go down as one of the greats ever. He learned a lesson that night and only an idiot would think that Salido, now or then, would last more than a few rounds against him.

Give Lomo his due. Spence is a very, very good fighter, but making him the #1 pound for pound guy doesn't strike me as accurate. I don't like pushing people to step up any more than I liked seeing people put more weight on a horse's back. Fight or run where you are comfortable and stop pushing athletes until they break.

 

[Docker2.0]

I think the problem that people have with Lomo is that he's given a crown after only like 10 fights AND he has a loss. He fought an older fighter who went up 2 weight classes. Sorry but he's going to have his critics for a minute because no one is shocked that he won, again the guy went up 2 weight classes to fight him, hasn't really been active against good comp and he is older. No shock here at all. But he quit on his stool. That is something you never do.

 

[Doc Samson]

A Jr light or super feather doesn't need to prove himself against an outstanding welter. That's a false comparison. Let Spence step up against a guy who outweighs him by 17 pounds. That would be something akin to Spence fighting an outstanding super middle.

I thought early on (2nd fight and after Lomo's only loss) that this guy could possibly go down as one of the greats ever. He learned a lesson that night and only an idiot would think that Salido, now or then, would last more than a few rounds against him.

Give Lomo his due. Spence is a very, very good fighter, but making him the #1 pound for pound guy doesn't strike me as accurate. I don't like pushing people to step up any more than I liked seeing people put more weight on a horse's back. Fight or run where you are comfortable and stop pushing athletes until they break.

Well to be clear, I don't think they need to fight anytime soon either, I only mentioned Errol because Darth called this guy the best fighter in the world. I don't believe his skills are better than Spence's, by any measure.

And at some point, when judging fighters, we need the same rules to apply. Docker hit it on the head for how I feel about this, I think it's insane to assign such accolades to a guy who hasn't proven that much in his pro career yet. You're saying he doesn't need to move up, but if that's where the competition is, why not?

Rigo just did that, & now he's basically a coward for it in the public's eye. But it's ok for Loma to clean out a division and stay there? When has that ever been acceptable for anybody else considered the best? Crawford isn't far away for a good fight. Almost every other super featherweight went up, again, if he's supposed to be the next great, the same expectations should apply...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The only way a guy can prove himself is by moving up. Sure.

But hey Rigo was going to beat NoMaschenko. He's faster and has more technique.

 

[Doc Samson]

So he should have a different set of expectations then, from others who came before him? Got it.

 

[InCali]

Well to be clear, I don't think they need to fight anytime soon either, I only mentioned Errol because Darth called this guy the best fighter in the world. I don't believe his skills are better than Spence's, by any measure.

And at some point, when judging fighters, we need the same rules to apply. Docker hit it on the head for how I feel about this, I think it's insane to assign such accolades to a guy who hasn't proven that much in his pro career yet. You're saying he doesn't need to move up, but if that's where the competition is, why not?

Rigo just did that, & now he's basically a coward for it in the public's eye. But it's ok for Loma to clean out a division and stay there? When has that ever been acceptable for anybody else considered the best? Crawford isn't far away for a good fight. Almost every other super featherweight went up, again, if he's supposed to be the next great, the same expectations should apply...

I saw Spence fight and was very, very impressed, but I don't see ANYONE out there that has Lomo's combination of aggression and ability to avoid punches. His footwork is maybe the best I've seen and he comes at you from so many different angles that it's almost impossible to defend against him. He throws just about any punch from anywhere. He is WAY quicker AND faster than people give him credit for (we saw that against the "quicker and faster" Rigo last night) and puts his punches together better than anyone I've seen in a very, very long time. The thing people don't talk about is his motor. This guy is a freak when it comes to exerting himself over long periods of time. He just seems to get stronger and stronger as the fight goes on. One knock I've heard about his is that he doesn't have a big punch. I would say he doesn't throw a big punch, but that's to his credit. I said before the fight that Rigo tends to load up and that didn't bode well against a guy like Lomo. Lomo isn't TRYING to knock a guy out with one punch, but I'm not sure he couldn't. Lomo SHOULDN'T adopt that style because it's not as effective and makes it more likely that you get tagged yourself. I was very impressed with Diaz. He adopts that style and he got caught big in the 1st round against a middling fighter. Fortunately for him, the guy wasn't a big puncher and he was able to walk through it. Other than when Rigo broke his hand in the second round , he barely touched Lomo and this is a guy who is supposedly a dominant fighter; hadn't lost in 15 years and so on. Lomo put on a clinic. Period. I agree with Darth. This is the most gifted fighter on the planet. As much talent (at least) and better technique than anyone else.

With regard to weight classes, I'm not saying don't ever step up. I'm saying stay where you are comfortable. If that's lightweight, fine. If it's super feather (for now), that's fine too. I strongly suspect he'll be introducing himself to Garcia or Linares fairly soon and neither of those guys are going to be happy after introductions. Mikey, in particular, is an EXTREMELY talented fighter, but he's going to have no answer for Lomo. I think he's just that good.

All that being said, I, like everyone else, has been wrong in the past about fighters. Sometimes they just have off nights and sometimes they aren't as good as you think they are. I realize Rigo stepped up in weight class, but I don't think ANYBODY saw that destruction last night coming. I know I didn't. I thought Rigo would hold his own for 4-6 rounds and then be overwhelmed because Lomo was going to keep going and going and going. Eventually the pressure was going to get to Rigo. I got the overwhelmed part right, but I didn't think this could possibly be as one sided as it was. Rigo was so busy trying, unsuccessfully, to get out of Lomo's way, that he forgot to throw that big, fast punch he has.....also, when a fighter hurts his hand, there's usually a reaction. I may have missed it in the 2nd round, but I saw nothing. What I WOULD like to see is that X-Ray, but I'm guessing that's not going to happen.

 

[InCali]

I think the problem that people have with Lomo is that he's given a crown after only like 10 fights AND he has a loss. He fought an older fighter who went up 2 weight classes. Sorry but he's going to have his critics for a minute because no one is shocked that he won, again the guy went up 2 weight classes to fight him, hasn't really been active against good comp and he is older. No shock here at all. But he quit on his stool. That is something you never do.

If people have a problem with a double gold medal winner who lost 1 fight out of 300 as an amateur (I boxed as an amateur and if any of you have, you know how virtually impossible that is). Yeah, he lost to Salido in a fight that easily could have gone the other way. First off, Salido should have been penalized, but the real reason Lomo lost was because of himself. He let the first half of the fight go and should have been more aggressive. He has acknowledged this and won't make that mistake again (see last night's fight for example).

The bottom line is that you can only fight who they put in front of you. The public was CLAMORING for this fight. Rigo was going to beat him in the eyes of many. Now that he got worked, he shouldn't have stepped up, etc. Revisionist history at its finest.

It doesn't matter whether Lomo has his critics. They will always be there. If he beats Garcia, they'll still be there. This guy is the best there is. Watch him fight and how ineffective he makes his opponents look. Watch his footwork. Watch they angles he throws his punches from. Watch how good he is defensively while being extremely aggressive. Watch how long he maintains his level of activity.

This guy is the best we have today and we're seeing a once in a generation type of fighter.

I was watching the handstands he was doing. He was JUMPING on his hands. I used to be into gymnastics some, but my arms are too long to have been really good. I used to do pushups from a handstand (no wall) and it's pretty hard to do. I could never jump from a handstand. That's so friggin' hard I can't believe it. His core is rock solid.

 

[Docker2.0]

Again,I have nothing against amatuer boxing but it's not the same as pro. Mayweather lost in the amatuers. You don't become a top P4P guy after 5 fights. I don't get why he jumps over everyone with so little fights to sample from(again, amatuer is not the same as pro's)but you have a guy like Spence who clearly passes the eye test but had to prove himself by climbing the ranks to get a title shot. I have the same problem with Terrence Crawford who LOOKS good but has yet to prove himself.......and please don't give me Postol because dude is so wooden. I still say a lot of this is the ESPN bias that Dan has for Top Rank/HBO fighters and I've always held that position. I do think Lomo is good but it's going to take a minute for him to be really accepted by most fans.

 

[InCali]

Again,I have nothing against amatuer boxing but it's not the same as pro. Mayweather lost in the amatuers. You don't become a top P4P guy after 5 fights. I don't get why he jumps over everyone with so little fights to sample from(again, amatuer is not the same as pro's)but you have a guy like Spence who clearly passes the eye test but had to prove himself by climbing the ranks to get a title shot. I have the same problem with Terrence Crawford who LOOKS good but has yet to prove himself.......and please don't give me Postol because dude is so wooden. I still say a lot of this is the ESPN bias that Dan has for Top Rank/HBO fighters and I've always held that position. I do think Lomo is good but it's going to take a minute for him to be really accepted by most fans.

I'm not sure what you mean (in bold), but I hope you don't think I'm giving you a ration because I understand, and respect, what you're saying; I just don't agree with it.

You CAN be a top p4p guy after 5 or 10 fights if you are....and Lomo IS. You could make an argument that "maybe" 1 or 2 guys are better p4p...maybe..... but to deny (if you are) that he's, at the very least, in the discussion is, IMO, way off base. He isn't just "good".

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm not sure what you mean (in bold), but I hope you don't think I'm giving you a ration because I understand, and respect, what you're saying; I just don't agree with it.

You CAN be a top p4p guy after 5 or 10 fights if you are....and Lomo IS. You could make an argument that "maybe" 1 or 2 guys are better p4p...maybe..... but to deny (if you are) that he's, at the very least, in the discussion is, IMO, way off base. He isn't just "good".

Where would you rank Spence? And the reason I bolded looks for Crawford because I'm not sure he is. He got ROCKED by Gamboa, a guy who was inactive and came up two weight classes to fight him. I'm going to pound that point home until he fights someone. Crawford has really only fought flatfooted guys. As far as Lomo, I'm not bashing the guy, I just don't think he's done enough to be #1 or 2 P4P. Beating Rigo doesn't prove it for me.

 

[InCali]

Where would you rank Spence? And the reason I bolded looks for Crawford because I'm not sure he is. He got ROCKED by Gamboa, a guy who was inactive and came up two weight classes to fight him. I'm going to pound that point home until he fights someone. Crawford has really only fought flatfooted guys. As far as Lomo, I'm not bashing the guy, I just don't think he's done enough to be #1 or 2 P4P. Beating Rigo doesn't prove it for me.

Hard to say on Spence. Probably in the top 10 and Crawford a little bit higher right now. The thing is that I haven't really seen enough of their fights to consider myself anything approaching expert status on them.

Lomo is different. I've seen just about all of his fights (including Salido) and have watched a LOT of boxing. This guy, IMO, is different. He is SO complete in every aspect of the sport that it boggles my mind. I don't think even a guy like Mikey (a very, very skilled fighter) will have an answer for him. He's just so unorthodox, so aggressive, so proficient defensively, and has such a good motor that he's just going to outbox and wear anyone near his weight down.

Recently, he just hasn't had any bad rounds and that's why his amateur record was as good as it was. They scored things differently when I boxed, but the fights are so short, if you have an off round, you can easily lose a fight. One bad round and you have to sweep or lose. That's why people don't have unblemished amateur records.

I've gone through Lomo's fights with the sound off and just watched his feet and I'm telling you right now that no one moves like he does. You don't have to watch him punch and can tell how much better he is just by watching him from the legs down.

If you think the ESPN or HBO announcers are biased towards (Honest Bob ) Arum's fighters, listen to the experts you think know a thing or 2 and find out what they think. I know Teddy Atlas is full of $#!T, but he knows boxing. I'm sure there are others who are less pompous that will agree with my assessment. It doesn't mean I'm necessarily right, but I've got a good argument on my side.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I want to know the fighters in history that have Lomachenko's speed, footwork, technique, activity, and builds power as fights go on.

 

[Docker2.0]

Hard to say on Spence. Probably in the top 10 and Crawford a little bit higher right now. The thing is that I haven't really seen enough of their fights to consider myself anything approaching expert status on them.

Lomo is different. I've seen just about all of his fights (including Salido) and have watched a LOT of boxing. This guy, IMO, is different. He is SO complete in every aspect of the sport that it boggles my mind. I don't think even a guy like Mikey (a very, very skilled fighter) will have an answer for him. He's just so unorthodox, so aggressive, so proficient defensively, and has such a good motor that he's just going to outbox and wear anyone near his weight down.

Recently, he just hasn't had any bad rounds and that's why his amateur record was as good as it was. They scored things differently when I boxed, but the fights are so short, if you have an off round, you can easily lose a fight. One bad round and you have to sweep or lose. That's why people don't have unblemished amateur records.

I've gone through Lomo's fights with the sound off and just watched his feet and I'm telling you right now that no one moves like he does. You don't have to watch him punch and can tell how much better he is just by watching him from the legs down.

If you think the ESPN or HBO announcers are biased towards (Honest Bob ) Arum's fighters, listen to the experts you think know a thing or 2 and find out what they think. I know Teddy Atlas is full of $#!T, but he knows boxing. I'm sure there are others who are less pompous that will agree with my assessment. It doesn't mean I'm necessarily right, but I've got a good argument on my side.

Believe it or not, Spence's resume is already better than Crawford's. I think Brook eclipses anything Crawford has done. And as far as ESPN and HBO bias, I only think Dan Rafael and Lampley are totally bias. Teddy Atlas is just off sometimes but I won't say he's bias. About Lomo, he looks good but so did Broner at one point. If he beats Garcia, then I'm sold because he would be challenging himself by going up in weight, at least for one fight against a fundamentally dangerous guy in Mikey, who I think is a complete boxer. I'd put him in P4P honestly. And back to Spence, the reason I bring him up is because if you ask any boxer or analyst, he has "it" just like Crawford and Lomo but yet for some reason he wasn't in the top P4P discussion until he beat Brook. And the reason I'm saying this is because there is some bias towards Top Rank and HBO fighters. If Crawford passes the eye test, then Spence should as well.

 

[TheCommissioner]

watched Rigos interview and had a feeling he would lose via stoppage

I wasn't far off

he looked like a coward out there

also Lomachenko was all over him

 

[Docker2.0]

watched Rigos interview and had a feeling he would lose via stoppage

I wasn't far off

he looked like a coward out there

also Lomachenko was all over him

Yeah you don't quit a fight. You will never hear the end of this. Ask Roberto Duran. Interestingly enough, they both speak Spanish and no mas will follow them forever.

 

[Doc Samson]

I want to know the fighters in history that have Lomachenko's speed, footwork, technique, activity, and builds power as fights go on.

IMO (let's stress that part) he's a less wreckless, more technically sound Pacquiao.

The hand and foot speed, barrage of punches, weird angles, it's all reminiscent of prime Manny. He's extremely talented, I'm just saying pump the brakes...he needs more on his resume.

he looked like a coward out there

C'mon man, I was highly disappointed. But he was moving up for this, he's not a coward...

 

[InCali]

Believe it or not, Spence's resume is already better than Crawford's. I think Brook eclipses anything Crawford has done. And as far as ESPN and HBO bias, I only think Dan Rafael and Lampley are totally bias. Teddy Atlas is just off sometimes but I won't say he's bias. About Lomo, he looks good but so did Broner at one point. If he beats Garcia, then I'm sold because he would be challenging himself by going up in weight, at least for one fight against a fundamentally dangerous guy in Mikey, who I think is a complete boxer. I'd put him in P4P honestly. And back to Spence, the reason I bring him up is because if you ask any boxer or analyst, he has "it" just like Crawford and Lomo but yet for some reason he wasn't in the top P4P discussion until he beat Brook. And the reason I'm saying this is because there is some bias towards Top Rank and HBO fighters. If Crawford passes the eye test, then Spence should as well.

Like I said, I haven't studied Crawford or Spence that carefully, both look very good, but I can't claim to have looked closely. I've seen a few of Garcia's fights and he's very, very smooth. Going up in weight and fighting Garcia doesn't make Lomo any better or worse than he is. It's just that it will convince some that he's where I already think he is. I don't put a lot of stock into artificially stepping up. It doesn't "make" you better than you were, it simply convinces (some) people. If you're comfortable at your weight, stay there unless there is a compelling reason to move. Make people come to you.

Lightweight is a much more glamorous division than is super welter or junior blah blah so if Lomo is comfortable, fine. I've just seen too many people who were pushed beyond their reasonable limits and got hurt doing it.

 

[InCali]

IMO (let's stress that part) he's a less wreckless, more technically sound Pacquiao.

The hand and foot speed, barrage of punches, weird angles, it's all reminiscent of prime Manny. He's extremely talented, I'm just saying pump the brakes...he needs more on his resume.



C'mon man, I was highly disappointed. But he was moving up for this, he's not a coward...

Manny isn't an unreasonable comparison, but I think he's decidedly better defensively and, as you say, technically. On the whole, he's a better boxer than Manny. His footwork is clearly superior and that's a big deal in the ring.

Comparing anyone to Manny is high praise, but, yes, I think Lomo is decidedly better.

 

[Docker2.0]

Like I said, I haven't studied Crawford or Spence that carefully, both look very good, but I can't claim to have looked closely. I've seen a few of Garcia's fights and he's very, very smooth. Going up in weight and fighting Garcia doesn't make Lomo any better or worse than he is. It's just that it will convince some that he's where I already think he is. I don't put a lot of stock into artificially stepping up. It doesn't "make" you better than you were, it simply convinces (some) people. If you're comfortable at your weight, stay there unless there is a compelling reason to move. Make people come to you.

Lightweight is a much more glamorous division than is super welter or junior blah blah so if Lomo is comfortable, fine. I've just seen too many people who were pushed beyond their reasonable limits and got hurt doing it.

So how does it look when he beat Rigo who he wouldn't meet in the middle and made go up 2 weight classes? Just playing devils advocate. I think he's good but I agree with Doc Samson's assessment. He reminds me of Manny with the weird angles and punch output with his defense being his offense.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

IMO (let's stress that part) he's a less wreckless, more technically sound Pacquiao.

The hand and foot speed, barrage of punches, weird angles, it's all reminiscent of prime Manny. He's extremely talented, I'm just saying pump the brakes...he needs more on his resume.

That sounds like the best fighter in history to me. t: