🥊 The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

[DarthSkywalker]

Seems like I missed a pretty good fight.

A very good one imo. It was rather tense throughout. Lots of good shots landed, lots of good technique.

 

[Doc Samson]

Canelo definitely won rds 2-4, and 10-12. There's at least 3 other rds (and that's being conservative) that you could've had going either way. There's no way GGG won more than 6 rds so this is far from some robbery.

It's really a gift, that man was getting outclassed in most exchanges and y'all know this. Canelo may not have seriously hurt him, but GGG definitely couldn't hurt Canelo either. His past two fights GGG's been in there with some quality opponents and looked far from being a monster.

 

[Docker2.0]

Canelo definitely won rds 2-4, and 10-12. There's at least 3 other rds (and that's being conservative) that you could've had going either way. There's no way GGG won more than 6 rds so this is far from some robbery.

It's really a gift, that man was getting outclassed in most exchanges and y'all know this. Canelo may not have seriously hurt him, but GGG definitely couldn't hurt Canelo either. His past two fights GGG's been in there with some quality opponents and looked far from being a monster.

Yep! GGG came forward a lot and Canelo caught him numerous times. GGG tried to catch Canelo and maybe he did, but GGG missed so much.......that or Canelo rolled with the punches. Even in their exchanges, GGG missed and got tagged.

 

[Iron_Stark]

The fight deserved to be a draw. I thought Canelo won 1, 2,3,10,11,12. And a few more could've gone either way like 4 and a few others, I have to re-watch it. No way was this a big robbery like everyone is making it out to be. Canelo was making GGG miss.

The 118-102 score was ridiculous though.

 

[Black Narcissus]

The most common score I am seeing is 8-4 GGG, with the likes of Lennox Lewis saying it was clear.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/41292698

The scorecards of the two judges with eyes were very similar, outside of the 7th. GGG was winning rounds before Canelo "got tired".

I'm mostly talking about MY scorecard, which you go on to make me look like a madmen. lol

Canelo by two rounds, bald man.

 

[B]

The most common score I am seeing is 8-4 GGG, with the likes of Lennox Lewis saying it was clear.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/41292698

Gennady Golovkin vs Saúl Álvarez

Basically reiterating what you've also said/linked, that website pulls together various media outlets scorecards that covered the fight. Not one of them scored the bout in Canelo's favour, with only 4 of them giving it as a draw..

 

[Docker2.0]

The fight deserved to be a draw. I thought Canelo won 1, 2,3,10,11,12. And a few more could've gone either way like 4 and a few others, I have to re-watch it. No way was this a big robbery like everyone is making it out to be. Canelo was making GGG miss.

The 118-102 score was ridiculous though.

Exactly! All this robbery talk is nonsense! I did have Canelo winning but barely but had GGG won, I wouldn't be screaming robbery. People don't know what robberies are apparently. The only thing about the fight I disagree is the one judge who had Canelo winning by a landslide.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Its a robbery if you think Canelo actually won. Even the HBO boxing podcast guys were mentioning how much of a stretch that was, beyond the stupid score card. And there is no reason for them to lie, HBO works with both Canelo and GGG. It is no surprise though that those that gave GGG no shot want to sell it. t:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The fight deserved to be a draw. I thought Canelo won 1, 2,3,10,11,12. And a few more could've gone either way like 4 and a few others, I have to re-watch it. No way was this a big robbery like everyone is making it out to be. Canelo was making GGG miss.

The 118-102 score was ridiculous though.

And GGG still outlanded him substantial in the majority of the rounds. Who cares if he misses, if he is still landing way more?

By the way, according to the punch stats, the percentage of punches landed was like a 2% difference. So Canelo was missing to. GGG landed just as many power shots and a lot more jabs.

 

[Doc Samson]

And GGG still outlanded him substantial in the majority of the rounds. Who cares if he misses, if he is still landing way more?

By the way, according to the punch stats, the percentage of punches landed was like a 2% difference. So Canelo was missing to. GGG landed just as many power shots and a lot more jabs.

Darth, what rounds do you have Canelo winning? I don't see how you could give him any less than 5 clearly, and that's a stretch. I think he had at least 7.

 

[Docker2.0]

Darth, what rounds do you have Canelo winning? I don't see how you could give him any less than 5 clearly, and that's a stretch. I think he had at least 7.

I have no problem with someone saying they thought GGG won, it's when people start to say people are blind or bias when they thought he lost, not that anyone here is saying that. But to use HBO and ESPN as conduit as "fair" judging is the biggest pile of manure ever. They are both known for their bias. Again, the fight was close and wouldn't be mad either way, though I thought Canelo won but GGG was missing his shots wide and wild all night.

 

[antonydelfini]

From https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/ggg-canelo-media-scorecards-compubox.593770/

Let's make the list. Post other Media/Fighter/Trainer scores you know of.

OFFICIAL CARDS
Dave Moretti --------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Don Trella -----------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Adelaide Byrd -------------------------------> 118-110 Canelo

****************************************************

Teddy Atlas --------------------------------> 118-110 GGG
Mookie Alexander (Bloody Elbow) --------> 117-111 GGG
Brian Campbell (CBS) ---------------------> 117-111 GGG
Jack Rathborn (Mirror UK) ----------------> 117-111 GGG
Harold Lederman (HBO) ------------------> 116-112 GGG
Dan Rafael (ESPN) ------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bryan Graham (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-112 GGG
Gareth Davies (UK Telegraph) -----------> 116-112 GGG
Amir Khan ---------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Matthew Macklin --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Steve Lillis (BoxNation) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bob Velin (USA Today) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
Kevin McRae (Bleacher Report) -----------> 116-112 GGG
Shaun Al-Shatti (MMA Fighting) ----------> 116-112 GGG
Ryan Frederick (Wrestling Observer) ----> 116-112 GGG
Patrick Stumberg (MMA Mania) ----------> 116-112 GGG
Kevin Mitchell (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-113 GGG
Jordan Breen (Sherdog) ------------------> 115-112 GGG
Kevin Iole (Yahoo) ------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Gary Locket -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Will Esco (Bad Left Hook) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
Phil Murphy (ESPN) -----------------------> 115-113 GGG
Mike Harris (SI) ---------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Paul Fontaine (Wrestling Observer) ------> 115-113 GGG
MMA Brazil ---------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Sean Sheehan (Severe MMA) -------------> 115-113 GGG
Rob Tatum (Combat Press) ----------------> 115-113 GGG
Patrick Wyman (Bleacher Report) ---------> 115-113 GGG
Joel Diaz ------------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Lennox Lewis ------------------------------> Golovkin
Austin Trout --------------------------------> Golovkin
Enzo Macarenelli ---------------------------> Golovkin
James Brady (SB Nation) ------------------> Golovkin
Terence Crawford ---------------------------> Golovkin
Sergio Martinez -----------------------------> Golovkin
Liam Smith ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Peter Quillin --------------------------------> Golovkin
Liam Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
Ohara Davies -------------------------------> Golovkin
Luke Campbell -----------------------------> Golovkin
Dave Coldwell ------------------------------> Golovkin
Badou Jack ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Kevin Kelly (boxer) -------------------------> Golovkin
Steve Kim -----------------------------------> Golovkin
Doug Fischer --------------------------------> Golovkin
Ring TV guy (name?) ----------------------> Golvokin
Michael Montero ----------------------------> Golovkin
Joe Rogan (UFC) ----------------------------> Golovkin
Jim Rome (sports broadcaster) ------------> Golovkin
Kovalev -------------------------------------> Golvokin
Chavez Jr -----------------------------------> Golovkin
Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News) ----> 114-114 Draw
Gilbert Manzano (Denver Post) -----------> 114-114 Draw
Boxing Clever (Seen) ---------------------> 114-114 Draw
Associated Press --------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Lance Pugmire (LA Times) ----------------> 114-114 Draw
Chris Mannix (Yahoo) ---------------------> 114-114 Draw
Kenny Porter ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
De La Hoya --------------------------------> 115-113 Canelo
Bernard Hopkins --------------------------> 115-113 Canelo
Erik Morales -------------------------------> 117-111 Canelo (think he said; see video page 3)
Chavez Sr ---------------------------------> Canelo

CompuBox ------> GGG landed about 50 more punches in the fight
CompuBox ------> GGG landed more punches in 10 of the 12 rounds
CompuBox ------> Canelo landed more power shots in 7 of the 12 rounds

TOTALS

51 = GGG won
07 = Draw
04 = Canelo won [includes 2 Golden Boy promoters]

51/62 = 82% had GGG winning the fight.

 

[Doc Samson]

I have no problem with someone saying they thought GGG won, it's when people start to say people are blind or bias when they thought he lost, not that anyone here is saying that. But to use HBO and ESPN as conduit as "fair" judging is the biggest pile of manure ever. They are both known for their bias. Again, the fight was close and wouldn't be mad either way, though I thought Canelo won but GGG was missing his shots wide and wild all night.

That's exactly why I want to know what rounds people are giving GGG, he wasn't landing a lot of his offense when he was coming forward. Canelo could dictate any time he decided to, he just gassed for about 5 rounds.

 

[Docker2.0]

That's exactly why I want to know what rounds people are giving GGG, he wasn't landing a lot of his offense when he was coming forward. Canelo could dictate any time he decided to, he just gassed for about 5 rounds.

People keep saying GGG was the aggressor and came forward and had Canelo backing up all night, which is true but if you look at the highlights, GGG was not connecting on most of the punches he threw. I have always been a big opponent of Compubox because I just don't believe it to be accurate. Canelo rolled with most of the punches. Look at both of their faces post fight and tell me GGG connected more. Canelo clearly had the most effective punches all night.

 

[antonydelfini]

I had the same card as Dave Morretti, except I gave the first round to GGG. So I had it 8-4 for GGG.

Most press scores had GGG winning, the few ones that did not gave him the win scored it a draw.

Trella also had a weird card since GGG would have won in his card if he gave him Round 7, a clear GGG round IMO (Byrd gave GGG the 7th round).

 

[Docker2.0]

I had the same card as Dave Morretti, except I gave the first round to GGG. So I had it 8-4 for GGG.

Most press scores had GGG winning, the few ones that did not gave him the win scored it a draw.

Trella also had a weird card since GGG would have won in his card if he gave him Round 7, a clear GGG round IMO (Byrd gave GGG the 7th round).

That's the thing, people are harping on Byrd's card but Moretti had GGG winning by 2 rounds and the other judge had it as a draw so clearly it's not the "robbery" that people are making it out to be. It's a close fight. Not knocking, just saying.

 

[antonydelfini]

That's the thing, people are harping on Byrd's card but Moretti had GGG winning by 2 rounds and the other judge had it as a draw so clearly it's not the "robbery" that people are making it out to be. It's a close fight. Not knocking, just saying.

People might be calling it a robbery because they think that if Byrd judged the fight without the alleged bias/corruption, she would have scored it for GGG.

Or if Byrd was not appointed as a judge for this fight, another judge would have scored it for GGG, reflecting the 80% of the scores from the press which gave GGG the win.

The 118-110 also made it more real for people that there is blatant corruption in boxing. Before it was just theories and speculations, but the 118-110 made it real for lots of people.

 

[The Endless]

Yea 118-110 to Canelo is just farcical. And she's made bizarre decisions before. She's either grossly incompetent or totally corrupt.

 

[P Supreme]

I thought GGG clearly won the fight to say its a robbery is a little much but Canelo did not deserve the win that much was clear

Canelo was outclassing him in the middle of the ring then he started to back up too much IMO

GGG fought a good fight as best he can anyway

the 118 - 110 scorecard is the outrage that lady has always score favorably towards canelo

they was a story about her in the new York post before the fight stating that she is Pro Canelo

Boxing always shoots itself in the foot

 

[B]

From https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/ggg-canelo-media-scorecards-compubox.593770/

Let's make the list. Post other Media/Fighter/Trainer scores you know of.

OFFICIAL CARDS
Dave Moretti --------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Don Trella -----------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Adelaide Byrd -------------------------------> 118-110 Canelo

Spoiler

****************************************************

Teddy Atlas --------------------------------> 118-110 GGG
Mookie Alexander (Bloody Elbow) --------> 117-111 GGG
Brian Campbell (CBS) ---------------------> 117-111 GGG
Jack Rathborn (Mirror UK) ----------------> 117-111 GGG
Harold Lederman (HBO) ------------------> 116-112 GGG
Dan Rafael (ESPN) ------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bryan Graham (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-112 GGG
Gareth Davies (UK Telegraph) -----------> 116-112 GGG
Amir Khan ---------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Matthew Macklin --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Steve Lillis (BoxNation) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bob Velin (USA Today) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
Kevin McRae (Bleacher Report) -----------> 116-112 GGG
Shaun Al-Shatti (MMA Fighting) ----------> 116-112 GGG
Ryan Frederick (Wrestling Observer) ----> 116-112 GGG
Patrick Stumberg (MMA Mania) ----------> 116-112 GGG
Kevin Mitchell (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-113 GGG
Jordan Breen (Sherdog) ------------------> 115-112 GGG
Kevin Iole (Yahoo) ------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Gary Locket -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Will Esco (Bad Left Hook) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
Phil Murphy (ESPN) -----------------------> 115-113 GGG
Mike Harris (SI) ---------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Paul Fontaine (Wrestling Observer) ------> 115-113 GGG
MMA Brazil ---------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Sean Sheehan (Severe MMA) -------------> 115-113 GGG
Rob Tatum (Combat Press) ----------------> 115-113 GGG
Patrick Wyman (Bleacher Report) ---------> 115-113 GGG
Joel Diaz ------------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Lennox Lewis ------------------------------> Golovkin
Austin Trout --------------------------------> Golovkin
Enzo Macarenelli ---------------------------> Golovkin
James Brady (SB Nation) ------------------> Golovkin
Terence Crawford ---------------------------> Golovkin
Sergio Martinez -----------------------------> Golovkin
Liam Smith ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Peter Quillin --------------------------------> Golovkin
Liam Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
Ohara Davies -------------------------------> Golovkin
Luke Campbell -----------------------------> Golovkin
Dave Coldwell ------------------------------> Golovkin
Badou Jack ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Kevin Kelly (boxer) -------------------------> Golovkin
Steve Kim -----------------------------------> Golovkin
Doug Fischer --------------------------------> Golovkin
Ring TV guy (name?) ----------------------> Golvokin
Michael Montero ----------------------------> Golovkin
Joe Rogan (UFC) ----------------------------> Golovkin
Jim Rome (sports broadcaster) ------------> Golovkin
Kovalev -------------------------------------> Golvokin
Chavez Jr -----------------------------------> Golovkin
Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News) ----> 114-114 Draw
Gilbert Manzano (Denver Post) -----------> 114-114 Draw
Boxing Clever (Seen) ---------------------> 114-114 Draw
Associated Press --------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Lance Pugmire (LA Times) ----------------> 114-114 Draw
Chris Mannix (Yahoo) ---------------------> 114-114 Draw
Kenny Porter ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
De La Hoya --------------------------------> 115-113 Canelo
Bernard Hopkins --------------------------> 115-113 Canelo
Erik Morales -------------------------------> 117-111 Canelo (think he said; see video page 3)
Chavez Sr ---------------------------------> Canelo

CompuBox ------> GGG landed about 50 more punches in the fight
CompuBox ------> GGG landed more punches in 10 of the 12 rounds
CompuBox ------> Canelo landed more power shots in 7 of the 12 rounds

TOTALS

51 = GGG won
07 = Draw
04 = Canelo won [includes 2 Golden Boy promoters]

51/62 = 82% had GGG winning the fight.

This is extremely telling.

That's the thing, people are harping on Byrd's card but Moretti had GGG winning by 2 rounds and the other judge had it as a draw so clearly it's not the "robbery" that people are making it out to be. It's a close fight. Not knocking, just saying.

Anytime that the person that wins doesn't get their hand raised, it's a robbery. The overwhelming majority that watched the fight saw a GGG win by 2-4 rounds with a small minority seeing a draw & a near non-existent smaller minority still seeing a Canelo win. loco

Had a competent or non-corrupt judge been in Byrd's seat, judging by the overwhelming majority of people that saw a GGG, win even if only by 2 rounds, the likelihood is it would have been scored as a GGG win.

That scorecard was an absolute disgrace on every level & likely cost GGG a win over Canelo. That's why it's a robbery/bs.

 

[InCali]

Boxing has always had its issues with...uh....well....shall we say shady characters. I've known people in the sport who go back to the 40s and 50s and, you may find this hard to believe, but it's actually cleaner now than it used to be. I didn't see the fight because I'm a cheapskate, but funky decisions don't surprise me in the least. This much I will say, I never saw a draw or a GGG win over 12 being in the cards, but had forgotten that Canelo has this disturbing tendency to disappear for rounds at a time. It's something he's going to have to get over if he really wants to be considered a top notch fighter. Given what I've read from you folks, Canelo certainly "can" outbox GGG and it doesn't appear that GGG seriously hurt him and I'll tell you this....a fighter's big punch can go very quickly and that may be what's going on with GGG. I've seen him fight before and I have a hard time believing that the guy I watched would hit Canelo square without a pretty devastating effect. Legs go, reflexes go (see Mayweather), and power punches go and you can never tell which will go first.

I suspect Canelo learned something and think he would probably win in a rematch (but, again, I didn't see the fight).

EDIT: Boxing needs a commissioner and a single governing body, but there's WAY too much money at stake for that to happen.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Putting Oscar and Bernard's cards on there, when one owns Golden Boy and the other works for Golden Boy.

Darth, what rounds do you have Canelo winning? I don't see how you could give him any less than 5 clearly, and that's a stretch. I think he had at least 7.

1, 2, 10, 12. The rest to GGG, with the 11th being close.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Anytime that the person that wins doesn't get their hand raised, it's a robbery. The overwhelming majority that watched the fight saw a GGG win by 2-4 rounds with a small minority seeing a draw & a near non-existent smaller minority still seeing a Canelo win. loco

Had a competent or non-corrupt judge been in Byrd's seat, judging by the overwhelming majority of people that saw a GGG, win even if only by 2 rounds, the likelihood is it would have been scored as a GGG win.

That scorecard was an absolute disgrace on every level & likely cost GGG a win over Canelo. That's why it's a robbery/bs.

This is so well put. Atlas exaggerates quite a bit, but one thing I loved that he mentioned was the draw scorecard in conjunction with Bird's is exactly what you get in a robbery.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Boxing has always had its issues with...uh....well....shall we say shady characters. I've known people in the sport who go back to the 40s and 50s and, you may find this hard to believe, but it's actually cleaner now than it used to be. I didn't see the fight because I'm a cheapskate, but funky decisions don't surprise me in the least. This much I will say, I never saw a draw or a GGG win over 12 being in the cards, but had forgotten that Canelo has this disturbing tendency to disappear for rounds at a time. It's something he's going to have to get over if he really wants to be considered a top notch fighter. Given what I've read from you folks, Canelo certainly "can" outbox GGG and it doesn't appear that GGG seriously hurt him and I'll tell you this....a fighter's big punch can go very quickly and that may be what's going on with GGG. I've seen him fight before and I have a hard time believing that the guy I watched would hit Canelo square without a pretty devastating effect. Legs go, reflexes go (see Mayweather), and power punches go and you can never tell which will go first.

I suspect Canelo learned something and think he would probably win in a rematch (but, again, I didn't see the fight).

EDIT: Boxing needs a commissioner and a single governing body, but there's WAY too much money at stake for that to happen.

Canelo wins a rematch if GGG slows down a bit more before the rematch. But if they are of the same level, GGG had too much for him. Canelo was worn out. GGG doesn't have the same pop as a couple of years ago, but his work was outstanding. His use of the jab and the way be moved Canelo to the ropes was rather good. Canelo didn't have the energy to consistently stand and trade in the middle of the ring and keep GGG off him.

 

[InCali]

This is extremely telling.



Anytime that the person that wins doesn't get their hand raised, it's a robbery. The overwhelming majority that watched the fight saw a GGG win by 2-4 rounds with a small minority seeing a draw & a near non-existent smaller minority still seeing a Canelo win. loco

Had a competent or non-corrupt judge been in Byrd's seat, judging by the overwhelming majority of people that saw a GGG, win even if only by 2 rounds, the likelihood is it would have been scored as a GGG win.

That scorecard was an absolute disgrace on every level & likely cost GGG a win over Canelo. That's why it's a robbery/bs.

My father's manager was the great (and I don't use that word lightly) Jackie McCoy and he used to tell my father "If you want to win a fight, don't allow the judges to take it away from you" (that's a paraphrase), but what he meant was that any time a fight is in any way close, you have a chance of losing. You need to get after your guy, stay on him, and eliminate any doubt about he decision. There are always going to be stupid, incompetent, and less-than-honest judges, but you usually don't get more than one of them at a time. Again, I didn't see the fight, but if one judge saw a draw and the other saw GGG by 2, you generally can't complain too much.