14 Year Old Girl Stabbed Her Little Sister 39 Times For Being Ungrateful

[redhawk23]

Yes.



No, but it's one of the more effective ones.


I don't even know where you're going with that one.



You know "mental illness" is a vague umbrella term that could be used to describe a hundred different things wrong with someone, right? They could have been sociopaths, I don't know. Certainly they were evil men. Do you feel empathy for them?



You don't even know what Godwins law is. It's not when Hitler's name is mentioned. It's when a poster or policy the poster likes is compared to Hitler or nazism in general. That was never done in this thread. Hitler was used as an example as someone you wouldn't feel empathy for. But you are right in that this has run its course.



What are you even talking about? I wasn't comparing anyone to Hitler. I just used him, among others, as an example of someone any normal person wouldn't feel empathy for.

For the record I never said that people like Bernie Madhoff shouldn't be in jail. I was responding to the line of thought that we should just start killing people because jails are expensive, in that if that is the case we should re-prioritize who we keep in jail.

You were classifying this girl as being in the same class of people as Hitler and Bin Laden . How is that not a comparison?

You say I wouldn't slaughter a farm animal, but I've gone hunting. I was asking if you thought those were different for some reason.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

You were classifying this girl as being in the same class of people as Hitler and Bin Laden . How is that not a comparison?

For the reading impaired:

I wasn't comparing anyone to Hitler. I just used him, among others, as an example of someone any normal person wouldn't feel empathy for.

You say I wouldn't slaughter a farm animal, but I've gone hunting. I was asking if you thought those were different for some reason.

Wow, you must be a sociopath. You didn't have any empathy for that innocent animal.

 

[redhawk23]

I'll ask again, due to the page break, if she is ruled to be mentally ill, but that illness is something either than "sociopathy" which is a pretty specific thing, would that make any difference?

Many forms of mental illness can cause people to be dangerous. Should we just kill them all?

 

[Duran Man]

What a *****.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

For the record I never said that people like Bernie Madhoff shouldn't be in jail.

Sure seems like you did.

Or you know we could just stop wasting money imprisoning non-violent offenders.

But really, does it do anyone any good for Bernie Madhoff to be in a jail cell? Does that get people their money back? Does it protect people anymore than barring him from financial activity would?

 

[redhawk23]

Again as an alternative to cost cutting through execution. And really, Madhoff only came because you took issue with use of the term "non-violent" offenders. As I said, violence can be termed as more than just physical violence.

I do question the effectiveness of incarceration as a punitive measure (for non-white collar crimes in particular, people just come out better criminals a lot of the time) but I do support it as a protective measure. The point I was making about Madhoff, imprisonment doesn't protect people much better than a number of other measures that could be taken at far less cost, if the cost of imprisonment was what was going to be discussed.

 

[Teelie]

I believe the man was being facetious.

I know. It's a joke that Republicans blame everything on Obama and everyone else has taken to mocking that. To the point it's no longer funny.

 

[Schlosser85]

The irony of so many people with an astounding lack of empathy throwing around the term "sociopath" is palpable.

I freely admit and have always freely admitted that I'm not a very empathetic person. But I'm not a sociopath (I don't think) and I've definitely never stabbed someone 39 times with a kitchen knife because I was frustrated with them. If I was capable of an act like that just out of being colossally pissed at someone, then I would have murdered my ex-boyfriend and my roommate a long time ago.

So you pointing out the "irony" of me lacking empathy while calling someone a sociopath is meaningless. Lacking empathy doesn't mean you're about to savagely murder someone for petty reasons. And it doesn't invalidate my opinion.

How is keeping her in prison for the rest of her life somehow more humane than executing her? If anything it's less.

 

[Xeno]

Curious those wiling to execute 12 - 14 year olds, would you be able to do it yourself?
Or are you just asking others to do it for you?

(a) I'd wait until she's an adult.

What were the "weird fantasies"? No one in this thread has expressed any such fantasy. Stop making up crap to bolster your argument.

See your response to Mondragon's question above.

 

[Schlosser85]

That doesn't constitute a "weird fantasy".

 

[Feenix]

Psychopathy and sociopath are very dangerous terms to associate with mental illness because it implies that these "conditions" can be cured. They can't. You can't instill empathy in others. Once a psychopath/sociopath, always a psychopath/sociopath.

Not all psychopaths and sociopaths commit crimes. I was taught by a professor who most likely was a sociopath and I had discussions with other profs about it. They reached the same conclusion. However, she was high functioning and never committed a crime. So, there can't really be any sort of preventative measure. They would have to commit a crime first.

So there are a few issues: who gets to deem someone a psychopath/sociopath? If they happen to commit murder (like this girl) and they are "diagnosed" as one of the two, does that mean they qualify for life imprisonment or the death penalty because their "condition" can't be cured? Who gets to make that call?

For the record, given that this murder was planned, the girl had no external influence, and she stabbed her sister 39 times, I would say she's a sociopath. But, we would have to know her history. Usually peope with these conditions have violent pasts.

 

[Xeno]

That doesn't constitute a "weird fantasy".

Whenever someone condemns murder but then says they are willing to kill a person convicted of it, that constitutes a bizarre fantasy in my eyes because I cannot imagine wanting to end another person's life. Most normal people can't. But maybe being an executioner is the dream job for a sociopath in this society and that's why some have no problem with the idea of flipping the switch themselves.

 

[Godzilla2000]

The only question in my head is why this person thought stabbing someone for a nonthreatening act of apathy is a logical life choice!?

 

[Schlosser85]

Well for one, I don't think the murder of an innocent victim and the execution of a convicted murderer are comparable situations.

Also, I don't have any desire to take part in an execution.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Whenever someone condemns murder but then says they are willing to kill a person convicted of it, that constitutes a bizarre fantasy in my eyes because I cannot imagine wanting to end another person's life. Most normal people can't. But maybe being an executioner is the dream job for a sociopath in this society and that's why some have no problem with the idea of flipping the switch themselves.

I never said I wanted to carry out an execution. You and redhawk with his fake Godwin's law stuff, are extremely disingenuous and intellectually dishonest when having a debate with someone you disagree with. You disagree with my point of view? That's cool. I like a healthy debate. What I don't like is when someone so blatantly and dishonestly twists what I've said to fit their talking-points. You would be a great FOXNews commentator.

Guess when you lose an argument on its merits, twisting the other person's words is your last recourse.

See your response to Mondragon's question above.

You know damn well I didn't mean I would do it personally. I meant I thought the justice system should wait until she's an adult in such a case, but the meaning was clear to anyone who wasn't scrambling to find anything to back up such a ridiculous charge.

To everyone else, sorry if I sound angry. But I really hate this kind of willful distortion. Definitely one of my pet peeves.

 

[redhawk23]

The only question in my head is why this person thought stabbing someone for a nonthreatening act of apathy is a logical life choice!?

Even in normal situations 14 year olds are really ones for logical life choices.

Seriously though this whole story is bizarre and terrible.

 

[redhawk23]

Psychopathy and sociopath are very dangerous terms to associate with mental illness because it implies that these "conditions" can be cured. They can't. You can't instill empathy in others. Once a psychopath/sociopath, always a psychopath/sociopath.

Not all psychopaths and sociopaths commit crimes. I was taught by a professor who most likely was a sociopath and I had discussions with other profs about it. They reached the same conclusion. However, she was high functioning and never committed a crime. So, there can't really be any sort of preventative measure. They would have to commit a crime first.

So there are a few issues: who gets to deem someone a psychopath/sociopath? If they happen to commit murder (like this girl) and they are "diagnosed" as one of the two, does that mean they qualify for life imprisonment or the death penalty because their "condition" can't be cured? Who gets to make that call?

For the record, given that this murder was planned, the girl had no external influence, and she stabbed her sister 39 times, I would say she's a sociopath. But, we would have to know her history. Usually peope with these conditions have violent pasts.

In a book about Columbine, the FBI's psychological researcher on the case is quoted saying the vast majority of psychopaths will take your money rather than your life. Disregard for other people can come out in a variety of ways.

 

[Tanin]

Just because someone has no empathy for others doesn't mean that person won't understand if I do this I ruin MY life. Which they may or may not care about.

As for this little girl.... I hope they can even find the cause.

 

[Xeno]

You know damn well I didn't mean I would do it personally. I meant I thought the justice system should wait until she's an adult in such a case, but the meaning was clear to anyone who wasn't scrambling to find anything to back up such a ridiculous charge.

To everyone else, sorry if I sound angry. But I really hate this kind of willful distortion. Definitely one of my pet peeves.

The question posed to you was, "Would you be able to execute a 12-14 year old yourself or would you want someone else to do it for you?" You answered, "I'd wait until she's an adult." You didn't say no, you said you would wait, so I took that to mean that you were saying that you would be willing to carry out such an execution. You should have made your response clearer if that isn't what you meant.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I stand by my past statement that preservation of sentient life is a trait of an evolved society. Being against executing the girl can be rooted in something else other than empathy, compassion, understanding.