1938 Superman. The One To Adapt?

Discussion in 'Man of Steel' started by Road Warrior, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. Catman

    Catman Well-Known Member

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    Superman has been very sci-fi oriented since the `50s. And while it'll be nice to see Superman punch an alien or monster they also need to ground the picture. Even Star Wars had its human moments.
     
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  2. NotFadeAway

    NotFadeAway Well-Known Member

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    To each his own. As a die hard Trekkie, I love Abrams Trek.
     
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  3. El Payaso

    El Payaso Well-Known Member

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    :up:

    Yes. The 'iconism' of Superman has very much made him a bidimensional character many times. As you say, many times he merely throws safe and proven pre-fabricated messages.

    "I loved THE KILLING JOKE... It's my favorite. It's the first comic I'0ve ever loved." - Tim Burton

    As printed in the Deluxe Edition.

    [​IMG]

    Wouldn't the Studabaker and autogyro you mentioned to bash Burton actually be the "surface elements" instead of his personality?
     
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  4. JamalYIgle

    JamalYIgle Well-Known Member

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    He didn't read the Killing joke when he filmed Batman, he didn't read any comics. He may have read it afterward but putting a blurb in the deluxe edition 20 years later is not the same thing.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rujArU3il8
    At the 6:02 mark, Burton says "I wasn't a comic book fan but I was a fan of the image". He doesn't mention a single comic book from that time as influencing the look, or his take of the movie.
    Also no, The weapons and vehicles are a touchstone of their time but part of Batman's image comes down to the gadgets, the weapons. Burton's Bruce Wayne was not the suave debonair millionaire playboy of the comics, his Batman wasn't the controlled methodical, ready for anything hero. He was a neurotic mess that walked , blanked eyed through a hail of bullets, and then instead of slipping off into the shadows and chasing the Joker's gang, he stared doe-eyed at Vicki Vale and ran off.
     
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  5. El Payaso

    El Payaso Well-Known Member

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    Fact or theory?

    I see:

    not fan of comic books = you haven't read one single comic book ever in your entire life.
    no mention of a single comic book from the time = you haven't read one single comic book ever in your entire life.

    But he doesn't mention that he didn't read Batman comic books for the movie right?

    Bat-gadgets and weapons are clearly based on the comics. Sometimes they're even better in Burton's movie. Bruce Wayne is the way a real life kid could grow up after such a traumatic experience. That doesn't prove he didn't read Batman comics for the movie.

    He was certainly prepared for everything and he was far from coming, shooting at everybody and running. When he meets the thugs at the beginning or Jack napier at Axis he was quite controlled. It was when innocent people's lives were at stake that he didn't hesitate in killing and shooting.

    In the first sequence and in Axis he pretty much slipped off into the shadows.
     
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  6. afan

    afan Well-Known Member

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    Amen.
    The battle for truth and justice doesn't cease when he puts on his glasses!
    This scenario illustrates the point.....
    Superman saves the lives of a small village from heavily armed attackers/terrorists. The weaponry is cutting edge and of American manufacture, as Clark Kent he investigates and discovers a weapons black market that benefits the profits of said manufacturer and reveals that information via the power of the press.

    Superman is powerless against the company, obviously if he trashed the company he would be public enemy #1, but as Clark he is free to act.
     
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  7. Kurosawa

    Kurosawa Well-Known Member

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    Precisely. Clark has often been described as a crusading reporter in the classic lore. What he can't do directly as Superman, he often does in the press as Clark. It's one of the reasons why people think there is more to Clark than meets the eye-the quiet, awkward man that they know writes fiery news articles that do not shy away from confronting powerful enemies.
     
    #107
  8. JamalYIgle

    JamalYIgle Well-Known Member

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    #108
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  9. Alex_Spider

    Alex_Spider Well-Known Member

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    :up: Always glad to read some nice posts..And the one thing i don't get is, why are some people afraid if Superman breaks a law or two in the process. Are all laws fair and based on liberty? Um, i don't think so. The Law system on all countries doesn't care what the right is. If you are a drug dealer and can provide yourself a high paid lawyer then you can get away with it or get released by bail. Oh, and Private Banks and big Corporations are literally untouchable. But that's another story.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  10. afan

    afan Well-Known Member

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    Because, he doesn't break the law.
     
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  11. JamalYIgle

    JamalYIgle Well-Known Member

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    Because Superman is suppose above the baser instincts that we fall prey to. He's the one hero who above all others can see the good in others but find ways to solve problems with as little damage as possible unless absolutely necessary. Truth and justice aren't platitudes to him. It was the way he was raised, the man he is believes in the greater good in all things.
     
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  12. The Question

    The Question Objectivism doesn't work.

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    Criminals getting released on bail isn't a bad thing. It not like they're paying to not go to prison, they're paying to not sit in jail until the court case is over. There's still going to be a trial where there could be a conviction. And the bail money helps pay for the trial.
     
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  13. Alex_Spider

    Alex_Spider Well-Known Member

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    So, essentially Superman is the Super "Obeyer" Man, who doesn't care who person has a right, only what the law dictates. It's like saying if he was raised by the Taliban, he shouldn't break the laws they have come up with, because he simply doesn't break them. Meanwhile many women would get beaten the s** out of them. Um, that doesn't seem very logic to me. And don't tell me that Americas laws are another thing than the Taliban ones. In both worlds laws do not treat equal people. And that's a fact.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  14. Alex_Spider

    Alex_Spider Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't change the fact that laws are not equal for all people and it's distribution isn't fair. Just look at the bigger criminals that are out there, besides small crooks and thieves. The big corrupted corporations. They commit bigger crimes than all muggers in the world and they stay out of prison. And the fact remains, that the more money you have the better lawyer you get, so the better chances to get free.
     
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  15. The Question

    The Question Objectivism doesn't work.

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    Well, with corporations, yeah, that's true. But bringing up bail is a bad example, because most crimes get a bail set.

    And as for the lawyer thing, yeah, that's true, but it' not that simple. The amount of evidence against the defendant is also a factor.

    And that also has nothing to do with the law. It's not the fault of the legislature that the best defense attourneys charge huge fees for their services.
     
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  16. Alex_Spider

    Alex_Spider Well-Known Member

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    If you read again my post i said, "the more money you have the better lawyer you get, so the better chances to get free."
     
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  17. KyleDW2

    KyleDW2 Well-Known Member

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    Superman has to obey the law because if he doesn't what is the point of the law? Say he breaks the law and blows up the LexCorp. building. He clears it of people but completely demolishes it. Then he does it to every other LexCorp. building in the world. All of this is done despite the fact that Superman can't prove Lex did anything wrong to prompt him into doing what he did. Congratulations, you do not have Superman anymore. You have Ultraman, the Earth Three version of Superman that just did whatever he wanted because nobody could stop him. There was no law other than his law. But, you would say, Ultraman was a criminal and Superman is a hero. Well, true, but does that mean that he should impose his own personal will upon people simply because he can? Is his invincibility reason enough to have his morality supersede everyone else's?

    And where does it stop? Lex is a legit villain, but would Superman go after other corrupt companies? And what does it mean to be corrupt? Better hope your answer falls in line with Superman's. What does Superman do about other laws he might find unjust? What if he were anti abortion? Would he send all abortion doctors to the Phantom Zone? What about illegal immigration? I hope he is feeling kinder towards all those illegals. And if he is, he doesn't think about "dealing" with anyone who thinks contrary to him. Because he can get away with it. He's Superman. He's above the law. He's not Super "Obeyer" Man.
     
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  18. El Payaso

    El Payaso Well-Known Member

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    You should post the part where he admits he didn't read Batman comics for the movie, not the ones where he says he had troubles reading comics as a kid. This is no proof.

    Well that's why directors have people around. It was Goyer who insisted in getting a mask for Scarecrow and it was Burton insisting Hamm that Batman should keep his cape.

    Ah yes, ridiculous descriptions. They should make look the movie bad. Buty no.

    And Michael Keaton, a comedian, for Batman, and it worked.

    No radical changes. But let's put some meat into this Superman and no just shallow speeches as usually.




    So he doesn't defend "justice" but just "laws." I know the subjecxt is noit easy but it's time for it to be addressed.
     
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  19. Alex_Spider

    Alex_Spider Well-Known Member

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    No, not to people, only to the corrupted forces of the world and the unfairness behind some laws. I think you took it too far with the demolition and all that. I don't think everyone of us implied this. After all if he took totally the law in his own hands, there would be no stories to tell, lol. We 're talking about little things which i am not going to analyze now obviously. But i believe that the things you mentioned are an extreme example just as the Boy Scout's one. There can be a middle ground.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  20. The Question

    The Question Objectivism doesn't work.

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    But again, that's not the fault of the law, that's the fault of capitalism. The Justice Department has no control over how indipendant lawyers want to market their services.
     
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  21. Alex_Spider

    Alex_Spider Well-Known Member

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    And that's exactly the flaw of the system my friend. You just said it. If there was true justice, the legal system wouldn't allow capitalism to interfere with the laws, so that poor people wouldn't have a strong defense. But that's the nature of how things are. Justice and corruption will always be connected. And that's where the S comes in. lol
     
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  22. KyleDW2

    KyleDW2 Well-Known Member

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    And who gets to decide what is fair? Fair is not a definite sum. There is not an index of fair. Which is what makes this line of thinking dangerous. For some people fair means survival of the fittest, for others fair means everyone must be equal in absolutely every way. Should Superman physically enforce the viewpoint that he shares? After all, he'd only be doing what is "fair."

    And there really isn't a middle ground. Either Superman enforces the law or he doesn't. He doesn't get to pick and choose due to inconvenience.
     
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  23. KyleDW2

    KyleDW2 Well-Known Member

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    Your right. The system is completely broken.

    So, how would Superman fix this? When he breaks the bad ol' law in order to do justice, how will he make people trust the God like being who can't be stopped by anyone who also doesn't give a damn about the laws the people set up for themselves?
     
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  24. Alex_Spider

    Alex_Spider Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, I just hate the portrayal of the good puppy, who poses as a tool next to flags and presidents who most of them are corrupted. I like him the most when he stands next to less fortunate people.
     
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  25. The Batman

    The Batman The Dark Knight

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    All I know is that if we see the same old caricature that we've seen since post crisis, this movie will have definetely failed in one area, and all the action and snyder special effects wont be able to change that.
     
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