2011 NFL Thread: The Lazarus Season - Part 2

[Wheels]

I feel dirty.

Just watch some highlights of Sunday's game to cheer yourself up.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I'd probably put Brees in that upper tier.

This makes me rather nauseous, but if you focus on being able to win games and less on stats and precision, then you'd.....

Have to add Big Ben to that list.

I don't feel that's entirely unfair. Coupled with the fact that he's young, he is productive, and if he continues to be able to win in the odd way that he does he certainly earns the title of "Elite". I'm quite comfortable saying (because they lost ) that had Ben and the Steelers beaten the Packers that it would've warranted at least some comparison between him and Brady. Ben Roethlisberger certainly has all the weapons to accomplish. I really look at three things in a quarterback: Can you move the chains? Can you make timely decisions on Offense? And do these two things aid in the goal of winning? Stats are simply numbers that exist by themselves, and really the job of a quarterback is to win within his own system.

For example the statement "If Manning had Brady's team he'd have 3 super bowls and Brady would have 1". This is entirely speculative because for all that person knows Manning wouldn't work with Belichick, maybe their styles would mesh. Maybe the offensive line wouldn't work as well with the movement Manning is accustomed to. See, neither Brady, nor Manning, nor Roethlisberger can choose their own teams. Nor can they choose their coaches.

On the subject of Roethlisberger he's shown me two very good things. One, he can win in clutch situations in games that matter. Two, he has won with two different coaches, which shows he can adapt to a new system (albeit slightly) and still produce similar results. Certainly this is not a knock to people with career long coaches, but it certainly communicates a degree of flexibility.

I think the best counter example I can give though is the Dolphins game last Monday. Chad Henne had a good night, and threw for 402 yards. The problem is he worked really hard for not a lot of points. 17 in the first three quarters, and then 7 more in garbage time. Yet all those stats count as far as they'll go in the books, but what did they result in?

* As an aside, I used to keep books at games in High School and College. Stats really aren't taken to pad the egos of players, and while they are an informative tool that's all they are, a "tool". Coaches still try you out before you get a chance to play, still watch you in practice, still make sure you can learn the system (*cough* Ochocinco *cough*). Stats, in my opinion, are of dubious value when predicting the greatness of a single player. Brady and Montana were of low draft stock, and Bradshaw was called "horrible" and "a moron" every day of his early career in Pittsburgh. Don't think they don't have some of the issues coaches saw in their stats, but rather they found a way to win even with these issues.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

the Giants vs the Rams this weekend in "whos going to be more meaningless this season?" game

It's more of "which teams is gonna be limping less this season?" game.

 

[Wheels]

I was rooting for The Rams to win the NFC West this season too.

 

[Matt]

Go Cardinals! Steelers of the West!!!!

I'd probably put Brees in that upper tier.

This makes me rather nauseous, but if you focus on being able to win games and less on stats and precision, then you'd.....

Have to add Big Ben to that list.

Nah, Ben is an elite athlete, not an elite quarterback.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Go Cardinals! Steelers of the West!!!!



Nah, Ben is an elite athlete, not an elite quarterback.

I flat out refuse to defend Big Ben so what you're saying is gospel despite the fact the guy's proven to have a higher football IQ than you credit him for and led his team to 2 rings and some substantive playoff success.

But yeah, Hell with him.

 

[Darthphere]

Go Cardinals! Steelers of the West!!!!



Nah, Ben is an elite athlete, not an elite quarterback.

Elite athlete in what sense?

 

[Matt]

Elite athlete in what sense?

Tough, physical, strong, can make plays when there are none. He is like Bradshaw. He is not necessarily accurate but he is capable of keeping plays alive through sheer physicality.

 

[Darthphere]

Tough, physical, strong, can make plays when there are none. He is like Bradshaw. He is not necessarily accurate but he is capable of keeping plays alive through sheer physicality.

Ok I'd agree with that but how does that classify him as an elite athlete? I mean, you didn't specify so I'm judging this by every sport and athletic competition out there.

 

[Wheels]

Go Cardinals! Steelers of the West!!!!



Nah, Ben is an elite athlete, not an elite quarterback.

Sorry I like Cards coaching staff but I just get behind them this year.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

One observation I'd like to make about the Colts is I'm getting tired of everyone blaming Kerry Collins, who was out of practice and was playing behind, in my mind, the worst Offensive Line I saw over the weekend. If Colts fans think Peyton riding in on his horse is going to fix that team, they're crazy.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Fix the team? Hell no.

What Peyton does is cover for most of their inadequacies and keep them in the 10+ win category on a regular basis. Peyton's basically handcrafted that entire offense, so of course with him at the helm they're damn dangerous again.

Something Collins is incapable of.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Fix the team? Hell no.

What Peyton does is cover for most of their inadequacies and keep them in the 10+ win category on a regular basis. Peyton's basically handcrafted that entire offense, so of course with him at the helm they're damn dangerous again.

Something Collins is incapable of.

Sour grapes. The Colts should've been much better prepared for this. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. Even Aaron Rodgers and Mark Sanchez have solid young backups who can run their offenses (well, McElroy's unproven but I suspect he will be good).

 

[Genesis 1.0]

lulz, sour grapes? Really?

I don't think I could less of a damn about the Colts and I can still see what most can; the Colts offense is nearly nonexistent without it's architect on the field. It begins and ends with Peyton.

 

[Hound55]

One observation I'd like to make about the Colts is I'm getting tired of everyone blaming Kerry Collins, who was out of practice and was playing behind, in my mind, the worst Offensive Line I saw over the weekend. If Colts fans think Peyton riding in on his horse is going to fix that team, they're crazy.

Nobody's blaming Kerry Collins per se...

He's just the poor bastard left holding the reins of a carriage when the horse just fell lame...

 

[Hound55]

Actually... better analogy. He's the dog of the horse carriage driver who has been hooked up to the trailer after the horse fell lame. He's ill-equipped for the job, but it's not his fault because it's not like there's anyone else around who could get the job done either...

 

[Poeman]

Big Ben is a bruiser and a great 3rd down QB and clutch...But he is not a elite QB...His overall numbers usually stink in each game.

 

[steintym]

Sounds like Urlacher is planning on playing Sunday. That is good news for the Bears facing that NO offense.

 

[Hound55]

Still talking about this?

Alright. I reckon Manning's on a tier by himself, followed by Brady who has his own tier as well. Then I'd say there's a three pronged third tier with Rodgers, Rivers and Brees.

Roethlisberger and Vick would be beneath that...

 

[Hound55]

Sounds like Urlacher is planning on playing Sunday. That is good news for the Bears facing that NO offense.

Good for him. This reference will fly over everyone's heads but I see Urlacher as Steve Menzies for the Australian Rugby League team the Manly Sea Eagles... He's the classy guy in a team comprised of guys I love to hate... if only for no other reason than they play for the Bears.

Such is Urlacher's level of class...

 

[Raiden]

Fix the team? Hell no.

What Peyton does is cover for most of their inadequacies and keep them in the 10+ win category on a regular basis. Peyton's basically handcrafted that entire offense, so of course with him at the helm they're damn dangerous again.

Something Collins is incapable of.

Well, Kerry Collins was in retirement before Colts signed him in the eleventh hour to replace Manning, so cut him some slack. And it is Colts' fault for overly-reliant on a 35-year-old QB without any decent backup behind him. Yes, he was essentially an one-man army in that offense, but if you put all your eggs in one basket you're gonna get burned someday.

 

[StorminNorman]

I am glad to see Bill Polian exposed for the fraud that he is. Polian was widely considered an all time great GM by many with high football pedigrees, but really he is just the guy who stumbled upon the first pick for Peyton Mannings draft and managed not to screw it up. (He used to get props for selecting Edge over Ricky, but I think histroy can demonstrate that being a mistake.)

The Colts have been the most underachieving team of the decade.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Well, Kerry Collins was in retirement before Colts signed him in the eleventh hour to replace Manning, so cut him some slack. And it is Colts' fault for overly-reliant on a 35-year-old QB without any decent backup behind him. Yes, he was essentially an one-man army in that offense, but if you put all your eggs in one basket you're gonna get burned someday.

Cut him some slack? You make it seem as if he was drafted onto the team against his will. I must have missed the hostage showdown, complete with Rachel Nichols on the front lawn begging Polian to put down the pen.

Wait, what's that? He chose to come out of retirement for another shot at relevance & a paycheck, knowing full well that he was walking into a complicated offense run essentially through one man? He also owned a calendar & knew when the season started as well, you say?

Well that changes things drastically, doesn't it? Bottom line is he could have said no, he was aware of the situation, & $'s to doughnuts, if this was Favre instead of Collins, I wouldn't be seeing this sort of rush to defend the poor professional athlete doing the job he was paid to do.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Well, as we close in on Week 2, we might soon find out how many performances in Week 1 were flukes, and how many were the real deal.

For now though, we should take a moment and commemorate what we saw. Thus, I give you my own version of power rankings. Some of them aren't that good, but you have to make due with what ya got.

NFL NICKNAMES: WEEK 1

Tony "Can't Win in September Either" Romo

Ben Roethlisfumbler

Done-ovan McNabb

Kyle "Life Sucks" Orton

Reggie "Still Overpaid" Bush

Kansas Sh**ty Chiefs

Rex "Haturz Gonna Hate" Grossman

Willie "Perpetually Injured" Colon

Chad CatchoUno

Tony "Endangered Dolphin" Sporano

Kerry "I Need a Drink" Collins

Cam "G.O.A.T." Newton

Jake Delhomeless

 

[Poeman]

Brandon Marshall has gone through his fair share of drama with Chad Henne, but color the mouthy wideout impressed with his QB’s footwork in Monday night’s fireworks show against the Patriots.

After Henne barreled for 59 yards on the ground — the highest single-game output by a quarterback in ‘Fins history — Marshall went so far as to compare him to Michael Vick.

“Yeah … the white Vick,” Marshall told the South Florida Sun Sentinel. “As long as he doesn’t get hit and he continues to do that because we need that. It definitely helps us out, as long as he gets down early enough we’ll take it.”

While the “Monday Night Football” crew, especially Jon Gruden, endlessly gushed over Reggie Bush, Miami’s feature back ended up with just 38 yards on 11 carries.

With rookie Daniel Thomas sidelined, Miami has staged a casting call for a new back (with an annoying laser focus on guys who hit their primes pre-Obama, namely Larry Johnson and Brian Westbrook).

Until they find some support, “White Vick” fleeing the pocket could be a common sight in Miami, and it’s likely to bite Henne before long.

– Marc Sessler

http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/09/15/marshall-tags-henne-the-white-vick/?module=HP11_headline_stack