2015 NFL Thread: More of Matt Moore!

[Warhammer]

The report was written the same way it would have been for a case in the court of law to get a conviction. Sometimes there is no concrete proof but more then enough probable cause. In this case the way brady and the team acted inrefusing to help the investigation didnt donthem favors. If your innocent why do you need to hide anything. Stop drinking the patriot kool aid

Eh.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

The report was written the same way it would have been for a case in the court of law to get a conviction. Sometimes there is no concrete proof but more then enough probable cause. In this case the way brady and the team acted inrefusing to help the investigation didnt donthem favors. If your innocent why do you need to hide anything. Stop drinking the patriot kool aid

There's just so much wrong in this post:

1. You don't get a criminal conviction with "more then enough probable cause." The standard of proof in a criminal case is "beyond a reasonable doubt" which basically means "almost certainty."

In a civil suit the standard is a "preponderance of evidence" (i.e. more likely that not) which you may be talking about here, but it's not referred to as a "conviction" in civil court.

The Wells Report certainly doesnt meet the first standard, and it likely falls short of the second one as well. The only court you're going to be found guilty of with that thing is Goodell's Kangaroo Court.

2. You have a right not to help incriminate yourself. So assuming just because Brady didnt turn over his cell phone makes him guilty is laughable. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Brady doesnt need to prove he's innocent. Especially since he didn't legally have to turn it over. Plus it's not like he couldnt have just deleted messages off of it anyway. It's not like the NFL was going to be able to subpoena his text records anyway.

I'll also preface this by saying I have no skin in this game. I'm a Lions fan. The NFL's arbitrary "Wheel of Justice" is just laughable. People who defend it solely because they happen to dislike the team that happens to be getting the brunt of it on this go around should be the ones who stop "drinking the kool aid."

 

[Warhammer]

Good post, Hulk.

 

[Supernova]

There's just so much wrong in this post:

1. You don't get a criminal conviction with "more then enough probable cause." The standard of proof in a criminal case is "beyond a reasonable doubt" which basically means "almost certainty."

In a civil suit the standard is a "preponderance of evidence" (i.e. more likely that not) which you may be talking about here, but it's not referred to as a "conviction" in civil court.

The Wells Report certainly doesnt meet the first standard, and it likely falls short of the second one as well. The only court you're going to be found guilty of with that thing is Goodell's Kangaroo Court.

2. You have a right not to help incriminate yourself. So assuming just because Brady didnt turn over his cell phone makes him guilty is laughable. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Brady doesnt need to prove he's innocent. Especially since he didn't legally have to turn it over. Plus it's not like he couldnt have just deleted messages off of it anyway. It's not like the NFL was going to be able to subpoena his text records anyway.

I'll also preface this by saying I have no skin in this game. I'm a Lions fan. The NFL's arbitrary "Wheel of Justice" is just laughable. People who defend it solely because they happen to dislike the team that happens to be getting the brunt of it on this go around should be the ones who stop "drinking the kool aid."

Just because you cant find the murder weapon doesnt mean your cant piece together what happened through other forms of information. You have text messages with one guy admitting he deflated balls for brady. If your the Fing patriots and you have already got popped once for cheating why the hell would you risk again at any level of your organization. I'll tell ya why, because they got cocky and arrogant and there continuing of stretching rules to the breaking point to get wins. Have other teams done what they have done? Im sure as the sky is blue but they werent dumb enough to get caught. this is the equivalent of a bunch of kids reaching into the cookie jar in the kitchen and mommy coming home and catching one dumb enough to still be there trying to grab the whole jar.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

This is like Spygate all over again with the same dumb excuses for the Patriots:

- "Every team does it!!!"

Maybe, then why are the Patriots the only team dumb enough to get caught?

- "This wouldn't hold up in a court of law!"

Maybe, but it is not meant to. Last time I checked, the New England Patriots were a voluntary member of the National Football League. The NFL has its own rules and regulations that all members agreed to and have endowed the Commissioner with the power of enforcing those rules. If the Patriots don't like the punishments, they can opt to leave the League. But then who would they play? (Note that I am talking about the team here and not the players. There very well may be something in Labor Law or the CBA that players can point to in order to get Brady's suspension reduced.)

- "The punishment doesn't fit the crime!!!"

Cry me a river. Your team, like it or not, has the reputation as cheaters. This is twice that the same team has been embroiled in a cheating scandal. There was no question that Goodell was going to come down hard on the Patriots after Spygate.

- "It didn't affect the AFC Championship Game at all. We would have won anyway!"

Okay, but how long has this been going on? Did it affect other games? Would they have made the Playoffs if everything was on the up and up? Who knows?

You see? This is what cheating does. It makes everyone without the Patriot blinders on question everything about that team.

 

[Erzengel]

I think some of the texts from the ball boys were from October? So it appears that they have been doing this for a while.

 

[Immortalfire]

There's just so much wrong in this post:

1. You don't get a criminal conviction with "more then enough probable cause." The standard of proof in a criminal case is "beyond a reasonable doubt" which basically means "almost certainty."

In a civil suit the standard is a "preponderance of evidence" (i.e. more likely that not) which you may be talking about here, but it's not referred to as a "conviction" in civil court.

The Wells Report certainly doesnt meet the first standard, and it likely falls short of the second one as well. The only court you're going to be found guilty of with that thing is Goodell's Kangaroo Court.

2. You have a right not to help incriminate yourself. So assuming just because Brady didnt turn over his cell phone makes him guilty is laughable. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Brady doesnt need to prove he's innocent. Especially since he didn't legally have to turn it over. Plus it's not like he couldnt have just deleted messages off of it anyway. It's not like the NFL was going to be able to subpoena his text records anyway.

I'll also preface this by saying I have no skin in this game. I'm a Lions fan. The NFL's arbitrary "Wheel of Justice" is just laughable. People who defend it solely because they happen to dislike the team that happens to be getting the brunt of it on this go around should be the ones who stop "drinking the kool aid."

Can you imagine this in a court of law?

Judge: Did the defendant commit first degree murder?
Prosecutor: Probably maybe. It's more likely than not, your honor.
Judge: Guilty!

t:

 

[Warhammer]

This is like Spygate all over again with the same dumb excuses for the Patriots:

- "Every team does it!!!"

Maybe, then why are the Patriots the only team dumb enough to get caught?

- "This wouldn't hold up in a court of law!"

Maybe, but it is not meant to. Last time I checked, the New England Patriots were a voluntary member of the National Football League. The NFL has its own rules and regulations that all members agreed to and have endowed the Commissioner with the power of enforcing those rules. If the Patriots don't like the punishments, they can opt to leave the League. But then who would they play? (Note that I am talking about the team here and not the players. There very well may be something in Labor Law or the CBA that players can point to in order to get Brady's suspension reduced.)

- "The punishment doesn't fit the crime!!!"

Cry me a river. Your team, like it or not, has the reputation as cheaters. This is twice that the same team has been embroiled in a cheating scandal. There was no question that Goodell was going to come down hard on the Patriots after Spygate.

- "It didn't affect the AFC Championship Game at all. We would have won anyway!"

Okay, but how long has this been going on? Did it affect other games? Would they have made the Playoffs if everything was on the up and up? Who knows?

You see? This is what cheating does. It makes everyone without the Patriot blinders on question everything about that team.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Tom brady deserves what he gets, especially in 2007 when he led the charge of allowing qb's to use there own balls in games. The nfl should of then said you will use the balls provided by the league on gameday and controlled by the refs the whole time.

See this is interesting.

Are Brady/Pats haters sure they want him to use regular PSI?

Prior to 2007, he won 3 Super Bowls. ....Then...if the accusations are accurate, he got to use deflated balls since 2007....and didn't win any more SB's.

Then suddenly it was uncovered, Brady was forced to use regular PSI again...and promptly played better in the 2nd half of the Colts game and....won another SB.

Man...if you don't like Brady, you'd better start campaigning to allow him to use a lower PSI!

If there is a better example of how little this matters I can't think of one. It not only didn't correlate with more success....it correlates with less success! t:

True but it does make the nfl look stupid and that they were tricked into allowing brady an avenue to do this. I tell ya what though i now have new respect for payton manning as the greatess qb of this era.

I heard that Brady's fumbles went down after 2007...it was assumed that meant he was using deflated balls.

So Brady:

2001-12
2002-11
2003-13
2004-7
2005-4
2006-12
2007-6
2009-4
2010-3
2011-6
2012-2
2013-10
2014-6

So I thought I would check out Peyton Manning too:

1998-3
1999-6
2000-5
2001-7
2002-6
2003-6
2004-5
2005-5
2006-2
2007-6
2008-1
2009-2
2010-3
2012-2
2013-11
2014-6

Brady was definitely a fumble machine early in his career but both of them fumbled a lot less after 2007. Not sure what was going on in 2013...both of them fumbled all over the place.

Looks like Manning reduced his fumbles more than Brady did actually. This obviously proves that Manning should be suspended immediately!

 

[HaplessHenchman]

Not mad. More amused than anything at all the silly excuses Patriot fans come up with. We've heard them all before and hardly any of them hold water.

 

[Warhammer]

All I know is that I'm glad Brady is suspended on the season opener. Pittsburgh can spank that ass now.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Well this whole thing has been ridiculous from the start and smelled like a witch hunt to me. I knew it didn't make sense, but I didn't know it was this bad. No court in the land would allow an employer to suspend an employee based on the flawed and biased methods in that report. That Wells guy is all over the place.

10 REASONS WHY AN APPEAL OVERTURNS TOM BRADY’S SUSPENSION

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2015/05/12/top-10-reasons-why-an-appeal-overturns-tom-bradys-suspension/

 

[Warhammer]

Well this whole thing has been ridiculous from the start and smelled like a witch hunt to me. I knew it didn't make sense, but I didn't know it was this bad. No court in the land would allow an employer to suspend an employee based on the flawed and biased methods in that report. That Wells guy is all over the place.

10 REASONS WHY AN APPEAL OVERTURNS TOM BRADY’S SUSPENSION

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2015/05/12/top-10-reasons-why-an-appeal-overturns-tom-bradys-suspension/

This article is awesome. I suggest everyone skim through it at least, especially the ******** people.

 

[Mister J]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4m4 minutes ago
Dolphins are giving QB Ryan Tannehill a six-year, $96 million extension that includes $45 million guaranteed, per league source.

Kinda hefty, but whatever. Can't really afford to start over again at QB, even though you'd like to have seen more at this point.

Hope this O-Line pans out.

 

[Immortalfire]

Y'all need a punt returner.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Beware NFL defenses. Cam is healthy and already shredded for OTAs.

 

[Duke]

Justin Smith calls it a career.




http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2457866-justin-smith-retires-latest-details-comments-and-reaction

 

[HaplessHenchman]

Justin Smith calls it a career.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2457866-justin-smith-retires-latest-details-comments-and-reaction

Sad to see him hang it up. For a long time, he was the only notable player from Mizzou playing in the NFL. Now we have many others, especially D-Linemen. Him and Aldon Smith were a lethal combo a few years ago.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Justin Smith calls it a career.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2457866-justin-smith-retires-latest-details-comments-and-reaction

I'd be more compassionate but I still have a hard time forgiving Niner fans for that playoff game. So many pompous and obnoxious fans in Charlotte that day.

That said, worst off-season in NFL history? Yep. Rumor has it that Reid is contemplating retirement as well because of concussions and Bowman had a minor set back from his ACL tear.

Yeesh.

 

[Matt]

Patriots are no longer appealing their team penalties. Brady's appeal is still moving forward.

There were reports that the Pats and the NFL had been talking informally through "back channels." I can't help but wonder if Kraft agreed to play nice with the NFL and withdraw his appeal in exchange for a reduction to Brady's suspension? Time will tell.

 

[Erzengel]

Kraft is withdrawing his appeal.

Brady is still holding on.

Edit: What Matt said.

 

[Matt]

Both sides are trying to save face at this point.

Goodell knows that the Wells report is not nearly as conclusive as he and the NFL have been acting. In addition, Goodell also realizes that Kraft is one of the leaders of the NFL owners (and among the most respected of them), and losing Kraft's support would create huge hurdles for Goodell's continued leadership and his plans to expand the NFL to LA and possibly London. Further, Kraft knows where all the skeletons are hidden and was VERY prepared to make this fight public and messy (even going as far as a lawsuit against the NFL).

On the flip side, Kraft knows that the Patriots done ****ed up (AGAIN) and that while the Wells report is not conclusive, further investigation (including turning over Brady's texts) will probably result in very definitive proof that Brady worked with the equipment managers to cheat.

Kraft shutting up and sitting down will allow Goodell to quietly handle Brady's suspension, knock it down to 1-2 games and then sweep the rest under the rug.

 

[Boom]

Sports politics!

 

[Erzengel]

It'll be like everything else, mostly the internet will bring it up like Bountygate, Rape Charges, Murder Charges, HGH, etc. Fans won't care.

 

[vindrow]

Patriots are no longer appealing their team penalties. Brady's appeal is still moving forward.

There were reports that the Pats and the NFL had been talking informally through "back channels." I can't help but wonder if Kraft agreed to play nice with the NFL and withdraw his appeal in exchange for a reduction to Brady's suspension? Time will tell.

With this Bwady's suspension will get knocked down to 2 games.