A question from Europe regarding next US Prez

[Manofplastic]

So, i'll be honest with you; i hate politics. I stay away from it as much as i can, as personally i see it all as the same bunch. I hate politics here just as much as anywhere. Nevertheless, I am not blind and I understand that it has impact whether you like it or not. Offcourse, the next US President is going to make an impact 'worldwide' too.

I haven't been following into the presidential campaign, only that i'm aware that it's going to be Clinton or Trump.

As i see it, Clinton is a mess and physically not fit. As for Trump, he seems like a disrespectful loudmouth that seems to be however a very potent business magnate.

I understand that Trump is 'falling behind' Clinton and resently was ousted from the republican party if i read that right.

what i'm really wondering is; how do REAL American people feel about all this, and what do they expect to see happening - instead of reading stuff pre-digested from agenda serving media outlets.

so my question really to you is:

WHY has hillary clinton come this far and still makes chance to be president, and WHAT would she bring that would make her the better choice?

and offcourse

WHY has Donald Trump come this far and still makes chance to be president, and WHAT would he bring that would make her the better choice?

 

[Boom]

Clinton has the reputation of being a corrupt career politician. She's been involved in a number of scandals that have been highly litigated, but ultimately no criminal cases were ever made of them. Even the email scandal, which is very annoying, isn't as grievous of a situation as it's made out to be, and all the FBI could really due was reprimand her for being careless. Her underlying issue is trust. It's hard enough to trust politicians, but she may be one of the most untrustworthy politicians in recent memory. Or at least she's made out that way. Scandals aside though, she has political experience and I trust her basic capacity to govern.

Donald Trump is a xenophobic, misogynistic, racist sociopath with an impulsive temper, zero political experience, undisclosed financial dealings, and a pathology for lying. And that's not even getting into the sexual assault allegations and the laundry list of scams and lawsuits he has been a part of, and continues to be a part of. People love to point out Hillary's corruptions but will go to great lengths to dodge Trump's. Him accusing anyone of being "crooked" is hilarious. He advocates war crimes, he has threatened to jail his political opponent, he incites violence in his supporters, and he shows a disturbing lack of understanding as to how our government actually works. For a guy who supposedly wants to make America great again, he sure doesn't act American.

 

[Orba]

As I European myself I think I should mention that while Clinton has a bad reputation much of that is due to that fact that many have been actively trying to bring her down for decades. There is Benghazi which the Republicans have investigated 8 times without being able to find her guilty of, yet during the Bush years there were 13 attacks on US embassies with 60 people killed, and zero investigations. There is the e-mail server stuff, but all of the Bush Secretaries of State also used private servers, in fact the servers were being run by the RNC. So while there is some shadiness around much of it would never have been looked at if anyone else had done it (especially if they were a Republican).

As for Trump he is not that great a businessman, he has been bankrupt at least 6 times, but he has spent his life telling people how great he is great at business so everyone just assumes he is. Much of Trump's problems (sex scandals, misusing charity money, and just generally being a really unpleasant person) come down to something simple, he is a 70 year old man who has never had to accept responsibility for his own actions in his entire life. When his businesses failed his dad saved him, then the banks bailed him out, he has grown up thinking he can do anything, and anything which disagrees with that view is a lie, or a conspiracy. And that doesn't even get to his complete lack of impulse control.

 

[summerteeth]

So, i'll be honest with you; i hate politics. I stay away from it as much as i can, as personally i see it all as the same bunch. I hate politics here just as much as anywhere. Nevertheless, I am not blind and I understand that it has impact whether you like it or not. Offcourse, the next US President is going to make an impact 'worldwide' too.

I haven't been following into the presidential campaign, only that i'm aware that it's going to be Clinton or Trump.

As i see it, Clinton is a mess and physically not fit. As for Trump, he seems like a disrespectful loudmouth that seems to be however a very potent business magnate.

I understand that Trump is 'falling behind' Clinton and resently was ousted from the republican party if i read that right.

what i'm really wondering is; how do REAL American people feel about all this, and what do they expect to see happening - instead of reading stuff pre-digested from agenda serving media outlets.

so my question really to you is:

WHY has hillary clinton come this far and still makes chance to be president, and WHAT would she bring that would make her the better choice?

and offcourse

WHY has Donald Trump come this far and still makes chance to be president, and WHAT would he bring that would make her the better choice?

She's the better choice because Trump has no business becoming President and is constantly threatening to deport millions of people, crack down on the press etc. List can go on. He has come this far because there's a large chunk of the American population that is tired of the status quo (which Clinton represents) and people wanted an outsider to come in and shake things up. He basically has 25-30% of die hard supporters and than gains another 10% of people who just don't want to vote for Hillary.

Not to go too much into the weeds on how we ended up with Trump but I will do my best. Basically, in the U.S. we have a primary process where the two major parties have candidates that run for their party's nomination (because we have a two party system here). The Republican Party and big money wanted Jeb Bush (George W.'s brother) to get the nomination. Jeb represents the moderate wing or establishment wing of the Republican Party (not that he's not conservative, but for comparison sake). The Republican voters rejected this choice. To complicate things there were other candidates that represented that same voting block like Marco Rubio (who seemed too inexperienced), Chris Christie and John Kasich. So you had four people all vying for essentially the same type of Republican voter while Trump was the only real "change" candidate and really only had to compete with Ted Cruz for the hardline conservatives and Evangelical vote. By the time the establishment Republicans dropped out Trump had so much momentum that it was really hard for someone like Kasich or Cruz to sway enough people to vote for them. It doesn't help that the media decides to cover every single Trump tweet all the time.

So I'm from California, states take turns voting in the primaries and some go earlier than others. By the time it reached California Trump had enough support/votes/delegates to lock down the Republican nomination and get into the general election, but I voted Kasich anyways.

 

[godisawesome]

Clinton has been analyzed as more of a classic American interventionist than either of her potential predecessors; she's more hawkish than Obama, but seems more wary than Bush. She's also clearly a classic Democrat who stands center let of American politics (which, for the record, are still tilted on a different axis than the rest of the world, generally more to the right than Europe) The biggest issue she has is, like Boom says, a lack of trust. She's been a major figure in American politics for years, and is perceived as both highly informed and experienced (generally a plus) but also a bit two-faced in the way she portrays herself versus the way she actually thinks (kind of expected, but there's a bit too much smell of opportunism there for some people). She is, for better or for worse, a continuation of the current political status quo, albeit presumably molded to address current national and international problems.

Trump, on the other hand, is running as the outsider on most topics. His view of the world seems clearly more exploitive and mercenary, with a weird mix of isolationism towards other major world powers (part of the reason why his comments on Russia's Putin have alarmed people) and a very imperialistic tone towards weaker countries and the style of war he would conduct. Voting members of the right in America seem in almost open political war over him: most center-right Americans seem to believe he's a horrible excuse for a Republican, while the far right movement (generally pretty quiet during elections) has come out huge for him. His core fanbase seems based around his demagogue-style appeal to under-educated white voters, and his general conduct is less about giving solid answers to policy questions than complaining about anything his opponents do.

I can't quite speak for everyone, but to me, as someone who generally fits the profile of a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, I cannot vote for Trump and am reluctantly considering Hillary Clinton as the serious voting choice. I'm an evangelical, pro-life Christian who does generally judge the character of the candidates via those methods: Hillary Clinton is a pro-choice liberal who seems two-faced, but she also seems clearly more respectable, even in her quite possible only nominal Christianity, than Trump, who only says he's pro-life and has a horrible track record as a *person* compared to Hillary Clinton. I'm also a Neo-conservative in international affairs; isolationism and imperialistic banditry (at least bluntly exposed banditry) is stupid, and I honestly never thought that any modern Republican candidate would fail to realize that. I'm largely a moderate on business affairs and immigration; Trump's proposed wall is a grotesquely inefficient and spiteful reaction to fears that I feel are overblown in a country where we have a literal ocean between us and the refugee crisis, and there's something very artificial and farcical about Trump's claim to billions given his track record. I do not doubt that Trump knows how to make himself money, but I doubt his business acumen runs well towards anything besides branding everything he possibly can, and he's nosedived far too much for me. I'm also an educated young man trying to live a Christian life style in a largely rural community; none of Trump's rhetoric matches my world view, his *actions* seem diametrically opposed to common decency (let alone morality), and his overall conduct seems shallow and just plain stupid.

The most I feel like commenting on other people is to my own Christian demographic; Trump seems to have shattered what was a solid voting bloc with a generational split, leaving Hillary Clinton a chance to gain some votes that were locked away from her just a year ago. Of my entire evangelically Christian core family, my parents, my two sisters, and myself are all going to break tradition and not vote Republican; only my brother will, because he bears some personal loss from illegal immigration. Older evangelical leaders have endorsed Trump to oppose their old enemy Hillary, while younger evangelicals have turned on him and smaller church leaders have avoided their traditional encouragement of Republicna voting.

 

[Sithborg]

Once you start to look past the 20+ years the media has had a hate on for Hillary Clinton, you begin to realize she is really, really qualified and kind of awesome.

 

[summerteeth]

Once you start to look past the 20+ years the media has had a hate on for Hillary Clinton, you begin to realize she is really, really qualified and kind of awesome.

Held a lot of important positions, not a whole lot of accomplishments for being in public life for so long. Her tenure as Secretary of State was horrendous.

Remember this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=cli...hViwVQKHVdeAu0Q_AUICSgE#imgrc=ANmtsF8ScTKCSM:

 

[The Overlord]

Held a lot of important positions, not a whole lot of accomplishments for being in public life for so long. Her tenure as Secretary of State was horrendous.

Remember this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=cli...hViwVQKHVdeAu0Q_AUICSgE#imgrc=ANmtsF8ScTKCSM:

Hillary Clinton is not so bad, if you are really, really cynical and have really low expectations for any sort of public official, like I am. t:

Seriously though, this a good election for killing optimism in general. Hillary Clinton is winning because she has basic administrative competence, which used be the price of admission for running for President, not just a virtue.

I think the GOP elected anyone else, Hillary would be held more to account in this election, but the GOP nominated a unqualified psychopath instead. It is a shame that Hillary's qualifications are not looked at closer, because she is winning by standing back and letting Trump explode.

 

[Pokkle]

As an european, I can see that:

Trump brag about sexual agression:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9ce776-8cb4-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html

Trump is now accused from several sexual agression:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/14/politics/donald-trump-women-accuser/

Trump is now using as a witness against this alleged agression someone who claimed to have provided underage boy for ministers in UK and others mediatized lie:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-defended-leeds_us_58014fe2e4b06e047594fa91

Trump believe that a serious problem like climate warming was invented by the chinese:

https://***********/realDonaldTrump/status/265895292191248385

Trump also believe women doing abortion should have some sort of punishement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Jpoecf0xY

Trump also showed racism in several occasion:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

The most dangerous story, is the one about the Central Park Five:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/reality-check-donald-trump-central-park-5/

Trump is also a corrupt businessman using loophole to not pay taxe:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ps-defense-of-not-paying-taxes-is-remarkable/

So my only question, is how anyone can vote for him....

 

[Thundercrack85]

So, i'll be honest with you; i hate politics. I stay away from it as much as i can, as personally i see it all as the same bunch. I hate politics here just as much as anywhere. Nevertheless, I am not blind and I understand that it has impact whether you like it or not. Offcourse, the next US President is going to make an impact 'worldwide' too.

I haven't been following into the presidential campaign, only that i'm aware that it's going to be Clinton or Trump.

As i see it, Clinton is a mess and physically not fit. As for Trump, he seems like a disrespectful loudmouth that seems to be however a very potent business magnate.

I understand that Trump is 'falling behind' Clinton and resently was ousted from the republican party if i read that right.

what i'm really wondering is; how do REAL American people feel about all this, and what do they expect to see happening - instead of reading stuff pre-digested from agenda serving media outlets.

so my question really to you is:

WHY has hillary clinton come this far and still makes chance to be president, and WHAT would she bring that would make her the better choice?

and offcourse

WHY has Donald Trump come this far and still makes chance to be president, and WHAT would he bring that would make her the better choice?

Donald Trump is considered to be a political outsider. A lot of people are sick and tired of the status quo in American politics. Hillary Clinton is essentially the establishment personified. She has been in politics for 30 years.

Trump mainly appeals to white male voters, who are unhappy with the direction the country is heading in. He got this far by appealing to racist sentiment and people's dissatisfaction with the economy.

Trump has shown himself to be a dangerous demagogue and his poorly thought out policies would be disastrous for the country. However, he says what no other politician has said, which a lot of his supporters admire. A lot of people have been questioning his emotional fitness to be president.

Hillary Clinton is essentially the same as Obama in political terms. Only she doesn't inspire anyone, but she is sane and has a lot of government experience.

 

[2kt09]

So, i'll be honest with you; i hate politics. I stay away from it as much as i can, as personally i see it all as the same bunch. I hate politics here just as much as anywhere. Nevertheless, I am not blind and I understand that it has impact whether you like it or not. Offcourse, the next US President is going to make an impact 'worldwide' too.

I haven't been following into the presidential campaign, only that i'm aware that it's going to be Clinton or Trump.

As i see it, Clinton is a mess and physically not fit. As for Trump, he seems like a disrespectful loudmouth that seems to be however a very potent business magnate.

I understand that Trump is 'falling behind' Clinton and recently was ousted from the republican party if i read that right.

Correct. Ousted in the sense that various establishment Republicans have rescinded their support or finally made their decision. The Republican Party could decide to drop him as the nominee, but that has not yet been the case.

what i'm really wondering is; how do REAL American people feel about all this, and what do they expect to see happening - instead of reading stuff pre-digested from agenda serving media outlets.

Lol, pipe down you Brits and non-Americans in this thread

so my question really to you is:

WHY has hillary clinton come this far and still makes chance to be president, and WHAT would she bring that would make her the better choice?

Well, there's the whole rigged DNC system. Her embrace of identity politics is cringe-worthy, but this historic election seems to be really driven by that. Another reason Hillary has come this far is because she has been at it for a while now, growing in the ranks as either the public servant worth respecting or the career politician worth demonizing depending on which informed individual you ask. I too see her as a mess even with her care and relief specific public service. In addition to that public service, you would be getting the more Republican, "neoliberal", president who would maintain the bulk of the issues liberals and conservatives supposedly want fixed.

and of course

WHY has Donald Trump come this far and still makes chance to be president, and WHAT would he bring that would make her him the better choice?

Well, there's the whole rigged DNC system . If Clinton represents Obama policy-wise, Trump represents Obama presentation-wise.
I find this the most fascinating because there are so many varying perspectives on how he made it. From his conservative platitudes to his leftist defacing of his primary opponents which the media propelled as entertainment, he represents this wild card force which middle & working class Americans insist to be the agent of change. He's also the most love-to-hate candidate.
His major policies boil down to more of what's already in place (border/vetting immigrants) with a relentless barrage of hype toward conservative/liberal talking points giving lip service to the various disconcerting political/social/economic systems which he vaguely states his solutions.
His unfiltered narcissism could be a motivator in always trying to please the public.
He could be just as tireless in the oval office as he is in campaigning.
His business acumen, the "legal" strong-arming and manipulation within the private sector, may be more credible in getting the economy and foreign/domestic trade relations on track if applied in the interest of the people and not himself.

The anticipation/anxiety of how much better/worse this nation would be under a Trump presidency is what drives that choice more than anything else from what I've gauged from both online and real-life reception.

 

[Manofplastic]

Thanks guys, lot clearer to me now.