Absolute Killing Joke - new colours

[Dirt Like Me]

The Joker and Mladen: You both make good points on this, and I'm still wrapping my head around the distinctions you've made.

But, to clarify: I guess my main complaint about the recoloring is that I like the fact that comics are--to some degree--a reflection of the era in which they were created, warts and all. When an artist goes back and touches up previously printed material a little bit of that element is lost. The yellow oval is good isloated example: Batman wore the oval in the 80s, so to erase it twenty years later in order to fit the current conventions seems a little bit odd.

A minor gripe, maybe, but something just feels off to me with the whole idea of recoloring a twenty year old, classic comic that so many people love. (I got the same feeling when I saw the Star Wars re-releases, hence my earlier comparison).

 

[Joker]

I can see that. I, personally, own and appreciate both a first printing of TKJ, and the new hardcover. They both have there strong suits. I just preffer these new ones. So much more detail comes through, and I feel it adds to the mood in alot of scenes (the flashbacks, in particular).

 

[Mladen]

I can see that. I, personally, own and appreciate both a first printing of TKJ, and the new hardcover. They both have there strong suits. I just preffer these new ones. So much more detail comes through, and I feel it adds to the mood in alot of scenes (the flashbacks, in particular).

I'm yet to read the whole thing so I can't fully comment anyway, but of the pages I have seen, I prefer the originals. i could come up with justifications why, but mostly its just personal taste and I like the overtly nightmarish colourscheme. Its very much of its time, the story, the tone, the artwork, and yes, the coloring were all 80s, but still age really well since every part was done with the highest attention to craft and technology of the time. Thats in agreement with 'Dirt Like Me's point, is this more of a change to fit current coloring conventions than it is REALLY what bolland originally intended?

I'm usually against these kinds of 'small-edit' touch-ups where the director/artist/creator changes minor things, since it usually leads them to KEEP touching up every few years (each new release of Star Wars on VHS, DVD, Blu-ray, has been slightly different to the last... I don't believe he's perfecting his vision, I believe that George Lucas' vision CHANGES every few years, which is understandable since thats what most people are like. Your own tastes change every few years).
Others will like the new colours, and thats cool too. I worry Bolland will complain in ten years when we've discovered a newer EVEN BETTER form of colour printing (or his taste slightly changes or whatever), that he'll want to retouch the thing again...

But I think its just frustrating that those of us who love the original comic in its original form (hyper colors and all) maybe deserved an oversized version as well so we can marvel over Bolland's line-work in the colours that we remember and love. Two different version may not sell well (but I'm guessing this kind of overpriced edition appeals to collectors anyway, and they'll buy both regardless ).

 

[Joker]

I'd buy and oversized version of the original colors...what they should have done is just thrown both versions into this one.

 

[Mladen]

I'd buy and oversized version of the original colors...what they should have done is just thrown both versions into this one.

that'd be pretty cool.

 

[deathfromabove]

I'd buy and oversized version of the original colors...what they should have done is just thrown both versions into this one.

that is exactly what they should have done

that would make sense if either project was a solo work. But we're not talking a painter here.

The original Star Wars films were excellent largely due to the fact that George Lucas' ability to make a story and produce a film ARE NOT equalled by his abilities in Directing or Script Writing. He recognised that his skills did not lie in those areas, and wisely handed the responsibilities over to better trained and more talented individuals. Film is a group process. There's too much a trend now to credit a film's excellence (or its 'awfulness') to its Director or its script-writer alone, which is both misleading to the actual process of film, and harshly dismissive of the creative team (including production designers, editors, actors, etc). When a director begins to think that HE was the ONLY reason the original films rocked, the new films cease to become a coming together of talented and widely experienced individuals, and becomes one 'master-director' overestimating his own abilities and ignoring the 'small parts', to the detriment of the end product (the new star wars trilogy). George DIDN'T write the scripts for Empire Strikes back or ROTJ, because he KNEW others could do a BETTER job than him but still retain the spirit of his concept (the same with the Indiana Jones films). Obviously the director/and/or/producer determines the final product, but he/she should never assume to be the expert at everything, or the 'master' creator.

..But I'm not saying this is whats happening in the TKJ recolour (though I'll admit the new colours are not at all to my taste). Bolland could never have done these particular colours in 1988 anyway (the printing process wasn't as it is today, and the obvious that its digitally coloured). What he means is, "If I made TKJ today, I'd color it this way.", which is silly since Bolland today is not the same artist as he was in 1988 (in terms of taste, style, skill, and other artistic choices). Coloring is a pretty superficial element to the comic overall. You might as well have Alan Moore write an entirely new script (he's pretty critical of it today anyway) and Brian Bolland re-illustrate from scratch (Like a TKJ version 2... Like how Evil Dead 2 is actually a remake of Evil Dead, but with more money and more skill). The notion of this comic's 'director's cut' is that TKJ was PERFECT except for the colours, which I doubt either Moore or Bolland with agree with. This kind of superficial edit is the equivalent of "Blade Runner: Set-Designer's Extended Edition"

i agree with most of this.

first of all bolland should not have used a computer to recolor the book. he could easily gotten nearly the same effect without going digital and then we could have seen the book the way he really intended it to be in 1988.

secondly he changed little things all throughout the book. removing the oval, a few changed facial expressions, and other tweaks that dont fall under the catagory of color (or colour as bolland says). thats fine that he wanted to tweak other parts of the book but i cant stand this revisionist nonsense of revisisting classic and iconic works of art and saying "this is how i wanted it then" as opposed to "this is how i want it now". just call it what it is. i was never happy with the book so when i got the chance to redo i fixed a few things to my liking. thats fine but dont do it under the guise of "i always wanted it this way" when the work clearly says otherwise.

how are you going to claim you wanted the bat symbol to be oval-less when you drew it there in the first place? how are you going to say i wanted the joker to smile in this panel when you clearly drew it otherwise the first time? there are slight changes to the og linework all throughout the book. if you want to update the colour then do it, but why change some of the artwork too?

and just for the record i think the new colors look great. but i also think the old colors work better with the story and are one of the elements that made the book so great back in 1988.

 

[Anita18]

I did like the old colors, since they were absolutely insane.

The color choices that Bolland did for the new version are quite interesting as well, choosing what to emphasize and whatnot. Of course you're gonna be biased toward the version that you first saw, LOL. But I like both for different things.

 

[Mladen]

how are you going to claim you wanted the bat symbol to be oval-less when you drew it there in the first place?

For this item specifically, I wonder if he did always prefer the bat symbol a certain way (and wanted to use the plain black on grey at the time), but DC editorial at the time enforced the rule that the logo had to be gold oval so as to fit in with their overall 'batman' product image?

Otherwise agreed with everything else you said.

Probably a bit off topic, but in regards to recolours, they're releasing new recoloured editions of the Asterix books (done digitally, but with Uderzo's supervision).

look back on the first dozen books, the colour plates were done in a rush by another artist, so there's just big splotches of random colours everywhere, peoples bodies turn purple for no reason, stuff like that. Otherwise the colour-scheme won't be changed, just corrected and improved (using the same range of colours that you see in the latest books). Its probably a good example of a 'recolour' actually legitimately being about fixing unintentional errors.

 

[Mladen]

is there a website that lists the changes beat by beat?
Not so much the colour, but the specific alterations to the linework itself (people keep mentioning facial expressions... i'd like to know which ones?)?

 

[Rac]

These new colors are my first viewing of TKJ, and upon seeing the scans from the old version, I must say I'm standing by the new colors. The old ones seem way too busy and just irritating to the eye.

Didn't they use that new colored version in the Alan Moore's DC Stories (or something like that was the name of the book) book as well? In the Finnish edition at least. I need to check this out though. I'm not quite sure.

EDIT: Ah, I thought you meant that the version on the left is the new colored. My bad. The right is the new one. Sorry.

 

[Anita18]

Didn't they use that new colored version in the Alan Moore's DC Stories (or something like that was the name of the book) book as well? In the Finnish edition at least. I need to check this out though. I'm not quite sure.

EDIT: Ah, I thought you meant that the version on the left is the new colored. My bad. The right is the new one. Sorry.

No, you were right before. The version on the left is the new version.

 

[Armored Avenger]

Does anyone know if the softback Killing Joke that is being released along with the 2 Killing Joke figures of Batman and the Joker has the new or old colours?

 

[Kaizer]

since the figures are from the old colors, I'd bet it's the old color-book

 

[The Joker]

I don't know if anyone else spotted this, but I think Bolland inserted a new Penguin cameo in the new edition. In one of the flashback scenes in the bar, there's a guy in a tux, with a beak like nose, and a top hat on the table in front of him, sitting at a table near where Joker and his two gangster mates are:

 

[Amazing Afroman]

that's cute of him I guess. The thing that bothers me about things like this is how it can serve as a destraction. In the original the bald patron in the back leans to the right and sort of leads the eye up the Joker's back so that he is the focus. By changing it your vision is drawn to the penguin in the middle of the panel. If he had done that to begin with it would have been fine, but this is silly.

 

[Matthew Allison]

Brian Bolland spent years drawing this story and has every right to be displeased with the original color job, and I'm happy he was given the chance to correct it the way he saw fit. He has said that part of the reason he hasn't done much interior work since TKJ was because of his experience on this title and I can understand why. Imagine spending hundreds of hours on a project only to have it altered in a way you never intended.

The original book is still there. It's not like all previous printings are being recalled and destroyed, and for those who say that the original colored version should have been included in this edition, keep in mind that you'd then be paying twice as much (I know, I know...you would have bought it anyway). Personally, I would have preferred that they also included a b&w version so that you can see his amazing ink work.

As far as adding new details such as the inclusion of Penguin in the image above, it doesn't bother me. It does seem a little like George Lucas' B.S. but I think we've all read this story enough that it's just kind of an added bonus.

 

[Eggyman]

Didn't they use that new colored version in the Alan Moore's DC Stories (or something like that was the name of the book) book as well? In the Finnish edition at least. I need to check this out though. I'm not quite sure.

EDIT: Ah, I thought you meant that the version on the left is the new colored. My bad. The right is the new one. Sorry.

No, I have the Alan Moore collection and it's the original colours used

 

[deathfromabove]

I don't know if anyone else spotted this, but I think Bolland inserted a new Penguin cameo in the new edition. In one of the flashback scenes in the bar, there's a guy in a tux, with a beak like nose, and a top hat on the table in front of him, sitting at a table near where Joker and his two gangster mates are:

i saw the penguin (along with a few other tweaks here and there).

but the more important question: is that alan moore drinking with the penguin? it looks just like him...

 

[Joker]

Bolland says in the afterword that there are 2, totally new figures he added. There's 1...anyone find the other yet?

 

[Mladen]

Yknow, looking through the preview copy at my lcs, I have to say that in context, the new colours look pretty darn good (having just one page up at a time like on this thread etc doesn't do it justice). There's a nice range of color in there, and the toned-down coloring gives it a suprisingly 'classic' look, especially for the b/w flashback scenes.
Some of the changes to character expressions I didn't quite like (one bit with the joker kind of didn't work for me), but possibly because they weren't quite integrated with the rest of the face (should have just redrawn the whole panel in some instances).

The size change isn't really that impressive tho, have to admit (I was expecting something a LITTLE larger).

In the end tho, the recolour is great, but i'd still lean towards the original.

 

[BurningBallroom]

I'll have to put some money aside for this.


As well as the money for the convention, and the joker doll, and the costume, and everything else I wanted to buy.

 

[Anita18]

i saw the penguin (along with a few other tweaks here and there).

but the more important question: is that alan moore drinking with the penguin? it looks just like him...

Alan Moore looms more. Yes, "looms." Quote by Neil Gaiman.

 

[jimhorse]

Huh. I wasn't expecting much from the new colors, but I'm diggin' it. It looks allot classier and makes Bolland's exquisite line work stand out a little better. The bloody eyes after Mr. J's spill rock my socks. A classic made a little classier.

 

[jimhorse]

i saw the penguin (along with a few other tweaks here and there).

but the more important question: is that alan moore drinking with the penguin? it looks just like him...

That was the first thing I thought. Theres a guy in the V for Vendetta movie hanging out in a bar that reminds me of him too.

 

[Joker]

the bearded character V poses as in V For Vendetta: The Movie is based on Alan Moore.