The Last Jedi Adam Driver as Kylo Ren (VIII)

[Solidus]

He is a great character but I still think Rey eeks out ahead.

As for the duel, as said many times before by many and as mentioned above, and JJ mentions in the commentary was the state of Kylo during that duel.

He had been hit with the equivalent of a .50 caliber rifle in the gut, marching through the cold, and on top of that he just killed his own father. He clearly was not bringing his A game. He was unstable and pissed mixed with being wounded. He even overestimates himself, JJ even says during the commentary that Kylo could have used the Force on Finn like he did with Rey, but he wanted Finn to "feel" it and kill him slowly. Backfires on him a little bit when he gets hit once by Finn taking him down even a notch further.

It will be interesting to see him at tip top shape in TLJ confronting our heroes. Think he may have more vigor and hatred behind him giving him some edge that may even throw our heroes off.

 

[scarlet-witch]

If they can create a whole entire flawless hand with fingernails and everything, I'm surprised a dude would have to live with terrible facial scars.

I could see them keeping it for ~angst!~

 

[Verbal21]

He is a great character but I still think Rey eeks out ahead.

As for the duel, as said many times before by many and as mentioned above, and JJ mentions in the commentary was the state of Kylo during that duel.

He had been hit with the equivalent of a .50 caliber rifle in the gut, marching through the cold, and on top of that he just killed his own father. He clearly was not bringing his A game. He was unstable and pissed mixed with being wounded. He even overestimates himself, JJ even says during the commentary that Kylo could have used the Force on Finn like he did with Rey, but he wanted Finn to "feel" it and kill him slowly. Backfires on him a little bit when he gets hit once by Finn taking him down even a notch further.

It will be interesting to see him at tip top shape in TLJ confronting our heroes. Think he may have more vigor and hatred behind him giving him some edge that may even throw our heroes off.

But surely Rey was cold in the snow with her jakku outfit too,lol

But seriously, I just want to see someone who's embraced the hate and all the things dark side next time we see Kylo Ren fight. Maul showed a glimpse of it in his lightsaber battles in TPM and Anakin did in the end battle of ROTS, but I still felt like they were too "choreographed" and had finesse.

Vader in RO was cool too but he has a Terminator vibe to his scene. I liked Kylo Ren's lightsaber style as you can really feel his emotion but I want to see it taken to the next level.

 

[StarLord]

 

[scarlet-witch]

His arms look good.

 

[sueb1863]

Somebody's been working out!

 

[Breogan]

Somebody's been working out!

You mean the the guy walking by with the ladder!?

 

[StarLord]

 

[kickass]

I love all the new characters, but he's my faaaaav

 

[scarlet-witch]

Amazing <3

 

[Broseph44]

Love Kylo

 

[Breogan]

 

[StarLord]

Artist John Burns did an awesome illustration based on reports of Kylo having a cape in The Last Jedi.

 

[kickass]

Artist John Burns did an awesome illustration based on reports of Kylo having a cape in The Last Jedi.

Oh wow, he looks so...uniformed. So professional and mature lol. Perhaps he's given the cape as a present when he completes his training with Snoke?

 

[Marvolo]

Some new info from Aftermath: Empire's End.

Leia describes her unborn baby’s presence in the Force as “He is less a human-shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust through with a vein of darkness.”

She also has a force vision/dream of a dark presence reaching out across space and placing a smothering hand over her mouth, she sees an advancing dark presence blotting out the stars, and Luke is calling out to her. And Ben is unsettled in her womb. This coupled with Palpatine receiving mental "signals" from the Unknown Regions that only he could sense makes me think that Snoke was the dark presence and that he was literally effecting Ben while he was still ij the womb, and that he was manipulating Palpatine into coming to the Unknown Regions.

 

[scarlet-witch]

Some new info from Aftermath: Empire's End.



She also has a force vision/dream of a dark presence reaching out across space and placing a smothering hand over her mouth, she sees an advancing dark presence blotting out the stars, and Luke is calling out to her. And Ben is unsettled in her womb. This coupled with Palpatine receiving mental "signals" from the Unknown Regions that only he could sense makes me think that Snoke was the dark presence and that he was literally effecting Ben while he was still ij the womb, and that he was manipulating Palpatine into coming to the Unknown Regions.

That's kind of horrifying.

 

[kickass]

It will be interesting how Kylo is portrayed in EP 8. Will audiences walk away feeling he's even more of a cry baby (not that I think he is, I feel a lot of people can't quite appreciate his character and use his conflicting emotions as an excuse to call him "weak"), or a total badass. They can literally do so much with this character. He's in a position where the creators can lend much more flexibility to his character than Darth Vader ever had, to be honest.

 

[scarlet-witch]

It will be interesting how Kylo is portrayed in EP 8. Will audiences walk away feeling he's even more of a cry baby (not that I think he is, I feel a lot of people can't quite appreciate his character and use his conflicting emotions as an excuse to call him "weak"), or a total badass. They can literally do so much with this character. He's in a position where the creators can lend much more flexibility to his character than Darth Vader ever had, to be honest.

I have a feeling Rian will steer him away from the "emo" part of his character. I don't expect him to be throwing tantrums this time around. I hope he's put in the position of badass, because he really is. The emo jokes just took over.

 

[Broseph44]

I thought the way he was portrayed in 8 was great and made sense. I never thought of him as some emo crybaby. But of course the Internet took that and ran with it.

 

[Iceman]

Now that we've got the angst out of the way I can see Kylo Ren becoming a really iconic Star Wars villain. If he gets 3 films as a lead baddie with 2 having fully given in to the dark side, then who knows how close he can get to the Vader benchmark.

 

[Mask&Cape]

He DID defeat Jedi in Luke's new order. Next time they fight, he'll probably have a better showing.

While he was no doubt instrumental in what happened, we don't yet know what Ben Solo did. Did he kill his fellow Jedi pupils? Did he disable the shield and let Snoke's men in? Or did he give Snoke a list of Jedi locations around the galaxy?

Rey's vision made it look like a massacre by the Knights of Ren is an open area with the Knights of Ren but visions are not that straightforward. It may not happened exactly like that and it may be representing Ben's appearance as Kylo so she would be aware he was dangerous whereas at the time he wasn't dressing like that.

But back to the character. Ben was easily the best character of the movie. He is the jealous skywalker, the runt of the skywalker lineage since his parental connection to the force was never trained.

Ben was being trained though. He was Luke's student.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Some new info from Aftermath: Empire's End.



She also has a force vision/dream of a dark presence reaching out across space and placing a smothering hand over her mouth, she sees an advancing dark presence blotting out the stars, and Luke is calling out to her. And Ben is unsettled in her womb. This coupled with Palpatine receiving mental "signals" from the Unknown Regions that only he could sense makes me think that Snoke was the dark presence and that he was literally effecting Ben while he was still ij the womb, and that he was manipulating Palpatine into coming to the Unknown Regions.

Interesting, but I don't like the idea that Snoke was influencing Ben at that stage. It makes it sound like he was be programmed and this takes the decisions and responsibilities out of his hands.

I'd take Leia's vision to be warning from the Force there is an individual out there who could be a danger to the family. Or, more interestingly, Leia's own fears that her child could be susceptible to her father darkness influencing her vision. This leads her to not letting Ben learn to use the Force while he is still young enough to learn to resist the Dark Side and the influence of Snoke.

 

[Mask&Cape]

It will be interesting how Kylo is portrayed in EP 8. Will audiences walk away feeling he's even more of a cry baby (not that I think he is, I feel a lot of people can't quite appreciate his character and use his conflicting emotions as an excuse to call him "weak"), or a total badass.

I hadn't heard anyone criticise Kylo Ren in that way. I've clearly been spending my time with a better class of people.

I have a feeling Rian will steer him away from the "emo" part of his character. I don't expect him to be throwing tantrums this time around. I hope he's put in the position of badass, because he really is. The emo jokes just took over.

I'm guessing you mean memes and such. They clearly aren't as widespread as you think and Adam Driver's performance was much praised by the majority.

Johnson will develop Kylo in the best way and won't be influenced by unimaginative goblins in a tiny minority.

Now that we've got the angst out of the way I can see Kylo Ren becoming a really iconic Star Wars villain. If he gets 3 films as a lead baddie with 2 having fully given in to the dark side, then who knows how close he can get to the Vader benchmark.

I don't what the requirements are to be iconic in the eyes of the world, but he is already iconic to me.

What do you mean by "the Vader benchmark"?

 

[Iceman]

I don't what the requirements are to be iconic in the eyes of the world, but he is already iconic to me.

What do you mean by "the Vader benchmark"?

You need to stand the test of time rather than the raves that come out of after any top film is first released. And Vader is often cited as the best film villain ever so he sets the benchmark on villains for many.

But yes he can be iconic to you, nothing wrong with that at all. It's a different conversation when people talk about iconic in general as it's then more about general public opinion. I'm sure Kylo Ren will be considered iconic by most people (including many who aren't confident enough to put him in that bracket just yet) by the time he is done in these films though when we have seen his full arc.

 

[Mask&Cape]

You need to stand the test of time rather than the raves that come out of after any top film is first released. And Vader is often cited as the best film villain ever so he sets the benchmark on villains for many.

But yes he can be iconic to you, nothing wrong with that at all. It's a different conversation when people talk about iconic in general as it's then more about general public opinion. I'm sure Kylo Ren will be considered iconic by most people (including many who aren't confident enough to put him in that bracket just yet) by the time he is done in these films though when we have seen his full arc.

Okay, I get you. I'm glad I asked you to explain because I completely misunderstood (my fault, not yours).

No matter how well written or performed, Kylo may never get that kind that kind of status. There were so many factors that went into Vader being such a cultural iconic. Not just his design and personality, but also the impact of the merchandise and outside factors too.

Can anything make that kind of impact again?

Is there any chance that Kylo Ren can still be redeemed? Can Leia still bring him around?

If the plan is for Ben to ultimately turn away from the Dark Side, then how could they do it so it isn't Vader all over again?

I can't figure out anyway that a Kylo redemption isn't just copying Anakin's ultimate fate, even if Ben survives or it happens under different circumstances.

But is no redemption too dark for a Saga story?